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In reply to the discussion: Isn't this how it started 80 years ago in Germany? [View all]leveymg
(36,418 posts)22. If the sign were surrounded by firearms, it might. That is exactly the case here.
I don't know what the personal history of the shop owner is, but if he could be shown to have been involved personally or as part of a group in hate crimes or violence against Muslims, I would say, this might be an act of intimidation that could be actionable.
I believe that this is a case of display with the intent to intimidate a specific group where, like a noose or burning cross, the court has upheld bans of some symbolic acts amounting to "hate crime" as constitutional: http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/states-move-to-add-nooses-to-list-of-outlawed-symbols
Constitutionality of noose-display laws
Opponents of such measures question the wisdom of targeting a particular symbol. They point out that the U.S. Supreme Court twice, first in 1989 and again in 1990, struck down state and federal laws singling out flag-burning. They worry that the list of disfavored symbols could grow and lead to a reduction in freedom of expression.
Supporters of noose-display laws rely heavily on the U.S. Supreme Courts 2002 decision in Virginia v. Black, which upheld the bulk of a state cross-burning law. The Virginia law provided: It shall be unlawful for any person or persons, with the intent of intimidating any person or group of persons, to burn, or cause to be burned, a cross on the property of another, a highway or other public place.
The high court reasoned the cross-burnings done with the intent to intimidate others constitute true threats unprotected by the First Amendment. Justice Sandra Day OConnor wrote in her opinion that when a cross burning is directed at a particular person not affiliated with the Klan, the burning cross often serves as a message of intimidation, designed to inspire in the victim a fear of bodily harm. She continued: Intimidation in the constitutionally proscribable sense of the word is a type of true threat, where a speaker directs a threat to a person or group of persons with the intent of placing the victim in fear of bodily harm or death.
The Virginia v. Black opinion explains why many of the noose-display laws, rather than imposing a flat ban, contain language requiring that the display or drawing involve an intent to intimidate. The Supreme Court reasoned that not all cross-burnings necessarily were done with an intent to intimidate and, thus, may not qualify as true threats. The same logic applies to noose displays.
Opponents of such measures question the wisdom of targeting a particular symbol. They point out that the U.S. Supreme Court twice, first in 1989 and again in 1990, struck down state and federal laws singling out flag-burning. They worry that the list of disfavored symbols could grow and lead to a reduction in freedom of expression.
Supporters of noose-display laws rely heavily on the U.S. Supreme Courts 2002 decision in Virginia v. Black, which upheld the bulk of a state cross-burning law. The Virginia law provided: It shall be unlawful for any person or persons, with the intent of intimidating any person or group of persons, to burn, or cause to be burned, a cross on the property of another, a highway or other public place.
The high court reasoned the cross-burnings done with the intent to intimidate others constitute true threats unprotected by the First Amendment. Justice Sandra Day OConnor wrote in her opinion that when a cross burning is directed at a particular person not affiliated with the Klan, the burning cross often serves as a message of intimidation, designed to inspire in the victim a fear of bodily harm. She continued: Intimidation in the constitutionally proscribable sense of the word is a type of true threat, where a speaker directs a threat to a person or group of persons with the intent of placing the victim in fear of bodily harm or death.
The Virginia v. Black opinion explains why many of the noose-display laws, rather than imposing a flat ban, contain language requiring that the display or drawing involve an intent to intimidate. The Supreme Court reasoned that not all cross-burnings necessarily were done with an intent to intimidate and, thus, may not qualify as true threats. The same logic applies to noose displays.
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It must be alright then to have a Jewish free zone, and a black free zone now also.
LiberalArkie
Dec 2015
#1
The Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks Are Beside Themselves With All The Distractions
cantbeserious
Dec 2015
#2
The judge is actually right. Someone from the CAIR needs to go in and get denied service.
X_Digger
Dec 2015
#3
What happens if they post a second sign, "We reserve the right to deny service - we are armed"?
leveymg
Dec 2015
#6
The threat can be a crime - that's circumstantial - if the owner has a reputation for baby eating.
leveymg
Dec 2015
#11
Making a threat doesn't subsequently remove your right to free speech in the future, no.
X_Digger
Dec 2015
#16
Correct, but a threat is grounds for seeking suit for tortious wrong as it might also be grounds
leveymg
Dec 2015
#19
I can't imagine a case where your sign would be taken, prima facie, as a threat.
X_Digger
Dec 2015
#21
If the sign were surrounded by firearms, it might. That is exactly the case here.
leveymg
Dec 2015
#22
So every sign in a gun shop is a threat because it's a gun shop? "No checks." (OR I'LL SHOOT YA!)
X_Digger
Dec 2015
#23
Muslims in this country have enough speech against minorities, etc, that you don't
Yo_Mama
Dec 2015
#18
Why do you think the ACLU had William Smith and James Yates attempt to get a marriage license in KY?
X_Digger
Dec 2015
#9
The case fell apart because to have standing you actually must be denied service.
NutmegYankee
Dec 2015
#13
It was dismissed for lack of standing, because claimants did not show that anyone was refused
Yo_Mama
Dec 2015
#17
Actual refusal and discrimination has to happen in order to sue. And my friend you live in a country
Bluenorthwest
Dec 2015
#28