General Discussion

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)

145. People really need to ask why we are having these many mass shootings

Mon Dec 7, 2015, 12:30 AM

Dec 2015

they used to be rare (texas tower for example) now we have more than the days of the year.

Hell, as I type I am listening to what started as a possible active shooter in riverside. turns out it is a smash and grab at the local ben bridge. Large perimeter, dogs, civy evacuation...

Some of what we have had that our media (and government) refuses to classify as terrorism, and should, is RW motivated. You just pointed to Dr. Tiller's. Then there is the PP shooting last week, and Dylann Roof in Charlestown... as well as the guy who went and shot the Holocaust Museum. All these are acts of terrorism that the government refuses to call well, terrorism.

We have a report on RW terrorism that has been suppressed

And by the way, I am not for grabbing all guns... I want things that make sense, and actually would follow some laws... we have on the books already. I went over them, but even things like universal background checks are being resisted, incidentally... by the same RW that have done some of these acts.

This is not a coincidence.

And we have some nuts who are just going nuts... Adam Lanza for example.

So we must ask what the hell is going on in the culture? And this is the question many here (on both sides) really does not want to ask, what the hell is going on?

I predict we will get more, partly due to climate change, partly due to economic conditions, and my worst case, is that for example Texas will follow though and decide to leave the Union and we decide they need to stay... civil wars are not civil.

I also can foresee a change in how the USSC interprets the second. If anything... those laws are not static, and those cases are not static. Interpretations do change with conditions,

If we have that civil war though, the 2nd might not survive that event though, with likely the third.

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I have been thinking on why Gun Owners are becoming increasingly defensive [View all] nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 OP

The behavior of gun owners mirrors the behavior of the Republican Party. LonePirate Dec 2015 #1

So you're accusing members here that are firearms owners of being just like the repukes? GGJohn Dec 2015 #8

Some of the talk from the gunners here at DU certainly resembles the talk from Repubs. LonePirate Dec 2015 #9

More utter horseshit. GGJohn Dec 2015 #10

Bit defensive are we..?? lobodons Dec 2015 #28

The bullshit is getting awful thick around here. eom. GGJohn Dec 2015 #29

He's not proving their point at all. pablo_marmol Dec 2015 #98

I don't see it as bigotry and hipocrisy. I see it as sane people who are appalled by Squinch Dec 2015 #138

"Tomato, tomahto, I guess." pablo_marmol Dec 2015 #148

Fact: we have a massacre every week in the United States. Sometimes 2. Perpetrated by a gun humper. Squinch Dec 2015 #149

So much nonsense. beevul Dec 2015 #150

"Non gun measures aimed at preventing gun violence" Squinch Dec 2015 #151

No, but I do get tired of your false claims. beevul Dec 2015 #152

"None of your non sequiturs changes that." pablo_marmol Dec 2015 #155

I used to assume a pro gun person was no better than a con, i was wrong... randys1 Dec 2015 #27

Thank you randys1. GGJohn Dec 2015 #31

+1 greytdemocrat Dec 2015 #76

Thanks for your integrity, randys1......and thanks in general. NT pablo_marmol Dec 2015 #97

thank you Duckhunter935 Dec 2015 #127

Thank you, and noted again. Eleanors38 Dec 2015 #128

I agree completely. It is astonishing to me how callous some Dems appear nowadays. Hoyt Dec 2015 #36

But they are our allies on so many other important issues. We have to come together somehow. randys1 Dec 2015 #114

I'm not sure we can come to terms with the gun 1%ers. The majority who own a gun Hoyt Dec 2015 #116

I am trying to understand it and I think it is culture. Someone has something as a big part randys1 Dec 2015 #117

Ding, dang, ding nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #119

Democrats I've known aren't pushing gunz and all the crud that go with them. Sorry. Hoyt Dec 2015 #120

Due to work I know a few good democrats in my back ountry nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #121

Sorry, Nadin, but in my area of the country, gunz and racism are just too closely related. Hoyt Dec 2015 #122

You think my back country does not have a few racists? nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #123

I have never suggested an outright ban on gunz. A gun or two in the home Hoyt Dec 2015 #129

But you are the one also making blanket statemetns that gun owners are racists nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #131

I'm fine with that, but gunners - here and elsewhere - would freak out. Hoyt Dec 2015 #133

Yuo are the one using the term "gunner" which shuts down any useful discussion nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #134

I've been discussing this for over 40 years. Gunners are inveterate. Hoyt Dec 2015 #135

And when you appraoch a policy maker nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #136

If you kiss their rear, nothing will change either. Heck, policy makers can't even Hoyt Dec 2015 #137

Yet, at local levels pols are starting to challenge the NRA nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #139

Maybe in California, not in red states or even states like Vermont. Hoyt Dec 2015 #140

Would you like PA? nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #141

"5 round mags" jack_krass Dec 2015 #159

Except that recent shootings like that of a congresswoman nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #161

Firearms laws are more permissive than ever TeddyR Dec 2015 #82

The percentage of the populace owning guns is in decline. Not much dispute there. LonePirate Dec 2015 #83

Hell even just two guns nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #87

Stats dude TeddyR Dec 2015 #88

And there is a DIRECT relationship between more permissive gun laws nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #91

Oh! What a shock! Look at the red states. smirkymonkey Dec 2015 #108

This is not about being an idiot or not nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #111

Yes, but it's still my claim that the stupid and uneducated cling more tightly smirkymonkey Dec 2015 #112

You are assuming that my neighbors are well educated nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #113

Yes, but for instance MA has a gun ownership rate of 12.6% smirkymonkey Dec 2015 #115

As I said, I think it is population related nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #118

That was in 2007, the gun ownership rate is now at 18.98% Sources: friendly_iconoclast Dec 2015 #156

More GUNS are getting concentrated in LESS people nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #162

MA licenses *gun owners*, not guns- and the # of gun owners here has increased 50% since 2007 friendly_iconoclast Dec 2015 #168

Except for statistics nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #169

What are the numbers from *other* states that license all gun owners, and make stats available? friendly_iconoclast Dec 2015 #170

I dare say we are seeing a cultural change nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #171

The cultural change in Massachusetts and Illinois is that there are more first-time gun owners,... friendly_iconoclast Dec 2015 #172

Ah personal attacks nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #173

Not an attack, an observation- what I claimed is empirically true, and was denied by you friendly_iconoclast Dec 2015 #174

And you did engage in a personal attack nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #175

You were wrong, shown proof that you were wrong, and instead of acknowledging that... friendly_iconoclast Dec 2015 #176

And you engaged in a personal attack nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #177

Higher rates, perhaps, but not "more gun deaths" across the boards. beevul Dec 2015 #163

There is a connection nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #165

You were originally talking about 'accidental' gun deaths? N/T beevul Dec 2015 #166

Among them yes nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #167

The percentage of the population that owns a gun is down nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #89

pure BS 840high Dec 2015 #94

There is one minority that you left out world wide wally Dec 2015 #2

The gun itself can be made illegal if the Snobblevitch Dec 2015 #4

I can think of plenty of guns that are ilegal nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #5

The guns you mentioned can be legally owned by individuals. Snobblevitch Dec 2015 #18

You mentioned the registry, which I did as well (1930s legacy law) nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #21

At least one murder tied to a Dayton police officer with a legal MAC-10 derby378 Dec 2015 #23

The same one I am talking about nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #26

I was just pointing out that NFA weapons are legal to own. Snobblevitch Dec 2015 #43

Alas they were AR 15 nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #44

I'm pretty sure they were full auto. Snobblevitch Dec 2015 #46

And I am pretty much they were not nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #50

Since both of the bank robbers were killed in the shootout. Snobblevitch Dec 2015 #57

They are rarely used nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #60

Your replies to me are lacking in details. Snobblevitch Dec 2015 #63

Rifles are used iirc less than 5 percent of crimes nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #64

You are incredibly difficult to have an exchange with on DU. Snobblevitch Dec 2015 #67

The link I gave you nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #69

You are incredibly difficult to communicate with. Snobblevitch Dec 2015 #72

Yes and a fact is that they were not in the registry nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #73

Once again, you confuse me. Snobblevitch Dec 2015 #75

I am stating a general fact nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #78

Why are you telling me this? Snobblevitch Dec 2015 #81

I am done wiht you nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #92

Circular arguements? Snobblevitch Dec 2015 #96

North Hollywood shootout oneshooter Dec 2015 #132

I think there has been something like 2 crimes commited with registered machine guns SpookyDem Dec 2015 #59

Good memory. The last was 1988 nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #61

WtF is wrong with you? world wide wally Dec 2015 #80

Good policy comes from knowing this shit nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #86

I think your next to last sentence sums up what I believe will happen... madinmaryland Dec 2015 #3

When you were growing up in OH in the 60s and 70s nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #6

The Remington Model 8, the Model 742 were high-powered rifles from... Eleanors38 Dec 2015 #130

People on the losing side of history former9thward Dec 2015 #7

My data is supported by plenty of other data done by researchers on this nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #11

This is no research on gun ownership. former9thward Dec 2015 #12

Alas while not perfect, thanks to the NRA, these ownership trends nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #13

I am sure the people on the south side of Chicago former9thward Dec 2015 #24

Ah yes, I was wondering how long you would say the word Chicago nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #25

Rahm, is that you? former9thward Dec 2015 #74

Expected as well nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #79

It is in summer. You don't need the ivory tower to tell them that. passiveporcupine Dec 2015 #37

It reminds me of smokers thirty years ago Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2015 #14

That is a good analogy nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #15

These were junk M1911 knockoffs Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2015 #16

Then the local SO should have taken them nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #17

If someone brings me a musket from the Second Indian War I will do that Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2015 #19

Can you imagine trying to hold off a bank with this? nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #30

Penis extension? GGJohn Dec 2015 #32

It's not that hard to understand if you look objectively at those who are into guns and Hoyt Dec 2015 #39

As if you're capable of looking objectively at folks who are into guns. beevul Dec 2015 #45

Disagree nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #52

I'm fine with someone who has a gun or two at home for hunting. That's not who is fueling Hoyt Dec 2015 #66

Hoyt, on the firearm issue, GGJohn Dec 2015 #54

Projection pocoloco Dec 2015 #42

Well, gun ownership appears to be about equal to Kang Colby Dec 2015 #20

Even Gallup 50 percent does not equal 44 percent nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #22

Gun ownership polls are worthless B2G Dec 2015 #34

Especially when they don't comply with your preconceptions. Photographer Dec 2015 #47

Notice, I said **about** equal to where it was Kang Colby Dec 2015 #38

50 percent and 41 percent nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #143

Huh? Re-read my post. I'm citing forty year increments. n/t Kang Colby Dec 2015 #146

the local gun shop parking lot was JAMMED today grasswire Dec 2015 #33

Yet nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #35

I agree. Kang Colby Dec 2015 #40

For political purposes, national trends are not always the relevant or most important indicator. branford Dec 2015 #41

But nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #51

Not necessarily, and trends change. branford Dec 2015 #56

And interpretations of rights also change nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #65

Interpretations do indeed sometimes change, branford Dec 2015 #70

Heller in the view of many experts nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #71

K&R Photographer Dec 2015 #48

This is definitely. deathrind Dec 2015 #49

Ammuniton is part of the "Arms" in the 2nd. Waldorf Dec 2015 #58

Many responses on this thread resemble those statistics. liberal N proud Dec 2015 #53

You noticed that too nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #62

You have to love it when people validate facts while arguing against them liberal N proud Dec 2015 #103

It is anecdotal but amazing at the same time nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #106

Most I know and talk to are paranoid. At the range I would say 80% right wingers who hate Obama.... Logical Dec 2015 #55

There are those yes nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #68

You are 100% correct, but many younger ones pick it up from dad also. nt Logical Dec 2015 #84

Yeah, but many of the younger ones are not picking up on the hobby as much nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #93

Gun owners are constantly demanded to prove need. krispos42 Dec 2015 #77

What I am poiting to you is not the need to prove need nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #95

I think your hope for change is overblown. krispos42 Dec 2015 #109

The tools for self defense is not translatiing into more sales nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #110

You're probably right krispos42 Dec 2015 #144

People really need to ask why we are having these many mass shootings nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #145

True, but not for the obvious reasons DonCoquixote Dec 2015 #85

And that is a brilliant observation nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #90

Thanks DonCoquixote Dec 2015 #99

"...dead the minute they had dental trouble." valerief Dec 2015 #178

Thank you for reading DonCoquixote Dec 2015 #180

I know just who you mean. valerief Dec 2015 #181

That was a bullseye DonCoquixote Dec 2015 #182

So, what is the difference between bullshit and absolute bullshit? world wide wally Dec 2015 #100

I know people like you nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #107

It's the desired effect of Turbineguy Dec 2015 #101

That we have less people owning ? nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #105

Haven't there been record breaking gun sales JNelson6563 Dec 2015 #102

To the same people nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #104

They're like single women and cats TexasBushwhacker Dec 2015 #147

Bingo! America's gun owners are candidates for the Hoarders teevee show. nt valerief Dec 2015 #179

Yeah some are worried enough that they start talking about the 'gun grabbers' as if it is Red vs Blu Rex Dec 2015 #124

Yeah but quite a bit of the emotionally ladden nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #126

um nope demtenjeep Dec 2015 #125

you really have no idea of any of this demtenjeep Dec 2015 #142

All gun owners are beneficiaries of the NRA. morningfog Dec 2015 #158

You confuse "defensiveness" with worry about Democratic Party viability. nt Eleanors38 Dec 2015 #153

Actually this has not one thing to do with political parties nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #154

Here's an example of some gun owners after a man was on the phylny Dec 2015 #157

I have talked to a lot of fun gun owners like that nadinbrzezinski Dec 2015 #160

Maybe they started reading DU. nt B2G Dec 2015 #164