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politicman

(710 posts)
69. ......
Mon Dec 7, 2015, 09:26 PM
Dec 2015

1) I argued that Front Nationals are a racist group, whether they are racist towards Jews or racist towards Muslims isn't the issue, the issue is that they are racist.
These days they seem to be directing a lot of their racism towards Muslims, but I'm happy to acknowledge that they have been and still hold racist views against Jews and other minorities, that doesn't discount my claim they are racist, it adds to it.

2) You first started off by saying that immigrant descendants refuse to let go of their accent which hinders them when going for a job against someone equally as qualified, and now you are using Chinese/ Vietnamese as people who integrate into society whilst forgetting that many many Chinese/ Vietnamese people also have accents.
Who gets to decide the make up of French culture that every one has to assimilate into? Because each French citizen is one piece of that culture, a orthodox Jew who dresses the way his religion asks him to makes up a piece of that culture, just as a Muslim who has an accent or wears a Hijab makes up a piece of French culture.
Do you want society to be like the 'borg' where everyone has to look, talk and act the same just to be able to secure a job or be considered part of society proper?

3) Yes Ataturk was a puppet of the colonial powers. After French and British defeated the Ottomans, they weren't going to let a leader of Turkey try to re-establish the Ottoman Empire again, thus Ataturk was someone the that they would let be in power because they knew he would do their bidding and try and remove Islam from the Turkish culture.
What better way for the colonial powers to make sure that the Islamic Ottoman Empire would not be a problem again than to have someone like Ataturk take the Islam out of the Turkish culture.
And your point about how strong leaders built the independence of their countries by holding political Islam at bay misses the point entirely.
1) Nasser and other leaders of Egypt held political Islam at bay because it threatened their iron fist hold on power. Dictators and monarchies tend to hold at bay anyone that threatens their unelected grip on power, whether that be religious political parties or just ordinary freedom parties.

4) The terrorists are just a small group of people. There are 1.8 billion Muslims in the world, and millions of Muslims in France alone. So when you compare how many people plotted and carried out the Paris attacks to how many peaceful Muslims go about their daily lives then the terrorists are a miniscule group when converted to percentages.
As for your argument that 30-50% of Muslims who ascribe to political Islam support the terrorists, you need to widen your understanding of why there is some verbal support for the terrorists.
And it's not because political Islam demands it, it's more to do with some Muslims being made to feel as though Islam itself is under attack by the West and its puppets.
Laws and policies that are enacted primarily to affect Muslims tends to add credence to their suspicion that Islam itself is under attack by the West.
Profiling and security operations directly solely against Muslims also lends credence to their suspicions.
Decades of bombing Muslim countries is another thing that lends credence to the idea that the West is attack the religion of Islam itself and not just the bad guys.
And lastly, increased support for a racist party like Front Nationals after a terror attack also lends support that the idea that France has a problem with all Muslims and not just the bad terrorists.

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The Return To Facism Has Begun In Europe cantbeserious Dec 2015 #1
It's amazing how fast things can change nt flamingdem Dec 2015 #2
Oddly enough, not in Germany or Italy Yorktown Dec 2015 #4
What do you think will happen to Frau Merkel? Nt flamingdem Dec 2015 #6
She will calmly leave in 2017. Yorktown Dec 2015 #7
She'll be gone. 840high Dec 2015 #11
Everyone thinks she'll not run again DFW Dec 2015 #107
How interesting, the next few years may well have women as the most flamingdem Dec 2015 #108
Women have done at least as well as men leading European countries DFW Dec 2015 #111
Disagree re: Italy JustAnotherGen Dec 2015 #26
It can happen anywhere, but it's not currently in the minds of Italians Yorktown Dec 2015 #28
Agree to Disagree JustAnotherGen Dec 2015 #30
Never been south of Rome, so I wouldn't know Yorktown Dec 2015 #40
Sadly there is much racist/fascist in America newfie11 Dec 2015 #46
France has had problems with the Muslim populanton since they had many colonies in Africa. Jim Beard Dec 2015 #83
Yes, the fate of the harkis is de Gaulle's shame Yorktown Dec 2015 #84
Here it comes newfie11 Dec 2015 #45
the threat of being killed by islamic radicals is going to drive survival behaviors patsimp Dec 2015 #51
Far right? Far nonsense. Yorktown Dec 2015 #3
Yesturday I served at my poll station and counted ballots. mylye2222 Dec 2015 #5
In which part of France? Yorktown Dec 2015 #9
In St-Etienne, central-eastern France. mylye2222 Dec 2015 #35
Oh, surprised. Yorktown Dec 2015 #38
Me too. mylye2222 Dec 2015 #39
I went once around St Etienne Yorktown Dec 2015 #41
Why do you think they are having so much success in your area? smirkymonkey Dec 2015 #60
less immigration than high uneployement. mylye2222 Dec 2015 #64
I've actually been to St Etienne. hifiguy Dec 2015 #65
Wow. mylye2222 Dec 2015 #90
AFAIK Focal is still there. hifiguy Dec 2015 #100
Truth is that the far right is only rising because people have hidden racist attitudes politicman Dec 2015 #8
Your comment is far, far disconnected from reality Yorktown Dec 2015 #10
Islam is not a race, no. Scootaloo Dec 2015 #14
Please see my answer #18 Yorktown Dec 2015 #19
I'm simply explaining racialized the nature of the bigotry to you Scootaloo Dec 2015 #20
Agreed, and I knew. But do not discard the legitimate ideological worry. Yorktown Dec 2015 #22
That's not really a legitimate worry Scootaloo Dec 2015 #23
No, it's very legitimate worry, as numbers can demonstrate Yorktown Dec 2015 #27
Again; A minority within a minority wants something that they can't agree on Scootaloo Dec 2015 #29
I have personally zero worry on the subject Yorktown Dec 2015 #37
That's 15% *of those who are religious* muriel_volestrangler Dec 2015 #42
Interesting link, but the numbers you posted must be wrong Yorktown Dec 2015 #48
(a) they're from your own source muriel_volestrangler Dec 2015 #49
(a) I was presenting a graph from 'Le Monde', not the whole INED databank Yorktown Dec 2015 #109
No, we can be very confident that 15% is wrong - it's only among the religious muriel_volestrangler Dec 2015 #110
I must thank you, you made me attempt a synthesis of the existing data Yorktown Dec 2015 #112
you just cant accept reality because its uncomfortable for you to admit. politicman Dec 2015 #15
You are wrong on so many counts I can't count Yorktown Dec 2015 #18
It is you that is wrong because you dont want to admit whats makes you uncomfortable politicman Dec 2015 #21
LOL. OK, you discard studies? Then just try to reason: Yorktown Dec 2015 #24
My response politicman Dec 2015 #33
We're getting nearer to middle ground Yorktown Dec 2015 #47
response politicman Dec 2015 #53
You are all over the place Yorktown Dec 2015 #54
It's you that can't understand what racism is politicman Dec 2015 #56
I quite understand what racism is , thank you. Yorktown Dec 2015 #67
...... politicman Dec 2015 #69
..-..- Yorktown Dec 2015 #70
////////////////// politicman Dec 2015 #71
@#$%^& Yorktown Dec 2015 #72
%$^&***&^%$$##$ politicman Dec 2015 #74
777***777 Yorktown Dec 2015 #75
!#%^*&^&$#$@#% politicman Dec 2015 #79
[{<+>}] Yorktown Dec 2015 #80
$^^$^$ politicman Dec 2015 #81
<*<*<++>*>*> Yorktown Dec 2015 #82
$#@#%&^& politicman Dec 2015 #85
You really place religion before evidence Yorktown Dec 2015 #86
^%(% politicman Dec 2015 #91
Mmmhhh, interesting Yorktown Dec 2015 #95
*%%*% politicman Dec 2015 #98
My MacBook has some cool icons, but they don't translate at the DU server Yorktown Dec 2015 #99
Have you a link for "the #1 reason for support to the Front National is unemployment"? muriel_volestrangler Dec 2015 #44
Easy Yorktown Dec 2015 #55
That's a failure of logic muriel_volestrangler Dec 2015 #57
We both have a point Yorktown Dec 2015 #68
When there's 3 economic issues listed, then you'd expect them to add up to more than just one muriel_volestrangler Dec 2015 #92
The reasons add up because "it's about the economy, stupid" (not you, the old Clinton quote) Yorktown Dec 2015 #94
The point is that with people allowed to pick 2, and 1 'immigration' vs. 3 'economic' muriel_volestrangler Dec 2015 #96
Oh, sorry, I misread you Yorktown Dec 2015 #97
"Marion Maréchal-Le Pen: the new wonder-girl of France's far-right" ucrdem Dec 2015 #12
French Ann Coulter flamingdem Dec 2015 #16
The Le Pens. mylye2222 Dec 2015 #36
The left needs to take the public's fear seriously Democat Dec 2015 #13
Oh come on. politicman Dec 2015 #17
Organized international terrorism is different from school shootings Democat Dec 2015 #31
thats a cop out politicman Dec 2015 #34
"When voters are scared, they will look for a strong leader to protect them." Trump supporters pampango Dec 2015 #43
We agree Democat Dec 2015 #50
The European left have nobody to blame but themselves LittleBlue Dec 2015 #25
Yes, they needed to do something after the attacks flamingdem Dec 2015 #62
Your first sentence is the most accurate assessment I have seen yet here DFW Dec 2015 #73
Could you elaborate? Just interested in getting an opinion from someone who actually lives smirkymonkey Dec 2015 #78
Sure DFW Dec 2015 #88
Thank you very much! smirkymonkey Dec 2015 #93
No one would like more to hear Germany's long-term plans than the Germans themselves DFW Dec 2015 #101
Sorry to hear that. Sounds like a recipe for a lot of social unrest and unfortunately smirkymonkey Dec 2015 #102
You have it pegged DFW Dec 2015 #103
thanks for an excellent answer, as always! :) nt steve2470 Dec 2015 #104
A three hour layover can be used for many things DFW Dec 2015 #105
I read the complaints from English-speaking Europeans LittleBlue Dec 2015 #87
Frankly, I can't figure the EP out. DFW Dec 2015 #89
Just as I feared malaise Dec 2015 #32
War always works for the oligarchs, doesn't it? PatrickforO Dec 2015 #52
Logic goes out the window when people see blood nt flamingdem Dec 2015 #63
Looks like ISIS got what it wanted. Act_of_Reparation Dec 2015 #58
Same thing will happen here if Democrats don't play this the right way davidn3600 Dec 2015 #59
I agree, we are merely fortunate that Trump plays this role now flamingdem Dec 2015 #61
As long as we don't play it the right wing way: "You have everything to fear including fear itself." pampango Dec 2015 #66
Hollande is willing to go to war with ISIS Dawson Leery Dec 2015 #76
Yes, but with these elections it appears that flamingdem Dec 2015 #77
Rachel doing a bit on Jean Marie Le Pen the father flamingdem Dec 2015 #106
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