General Discussion

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)

94. Stalinism is just dictatorship, it has nothing in common with the values of socialism.

Reply to Sen. Walter Sobchak (Reply #93)

Wed Dec 9, 2015, 05:34 PM

Dec 2015

And the people of Eastern Europe should not have been forced to go from being ruled by the Soviets to being ruled by Wall Street, Goldman Sachs and "the Troika". They should have been given the chance to make a democratic future on their own terms.

All of the ugliness in that region now is the result of the forced austerity. The lesson is, no country should ever again be put through what those countries were subjected to, either before 1989 or afterwards.

The heroic protesters in Leipzig who stood up to the Stasi were NOT fighting for capitalism and inequality.

And it was indefensible for the Clinton Administration take the lead in forcing those countries into "shock therapy". A "Democratic" president is supposed to always defend humane values before short-term gain for the few.

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In Venezuela, the 1% won yesterday-there's nothing else you can say. [View all] Ken Burch Dec 2015 OP

. MohRokTah Dec 2015 #1

Wrong, the people won, GGJohn Dec 2015 #2

The people can't actually be happy that a Thatcherite agenda is now going to be imposed.. Ken Burch Dec 2015 #5

I'm happy that the people of Ven. got to choose who they want without violence or fraud. GGJohn Dec 2015 #7

The people of Venezuela got to choose who they wanted without violence or fraud Ken Burch Dec 2015 #8

I disagree, the people will be watching them very closely and will vote them out if they try GGJohn Dec 2015 #10

If the Caprilistas ALLOW another election, that is. Ken Burch Dec 2015 #59

OFFS, GGJohn Dec 2015 #60

Well, it's pretty simple. Adrahil Dec 2015 #83

You are a "strange Democrat". Jim Beard Dec 2015 #11

Why? GGJohn Dec 2015 #13

No, because you walk 'lockstep'.... daleanime Dec 2015 #28

I actually consider myself more of an independent with a liberal bent, GGJohn Dec 2015 #39

What "Obama Administration's restrictions on currency exchanges"???? COLGATE4 Dec 2015 #15

you really have weird views of what is actually happening there...where do you get your info? snooper2 Dec 2015 #25

There were no "Obama Administration's restrictions on currency exchanges" hack89 Dec 2015 #33

"The Obama Administration's restrictions on currency exchanges did massive damage." EX500rider Dec 2015 #46

When was the last time you had to waste a day to stand in line to buy shadowrider Dec 2015 #53

The toilet paper shortage was caused by the rich hoarding the stuff. Ken Burch Dec 2015 #58

Oh? And just who is claiming that? GGJohn Dec 2015 #61

If it gets them toilet paper and a lower murder rate than Brazil they can (nt) Recursion Dec 2015 #65

The PSUV has had almost 20 years to get it's shit together cheapdate Dec 2015 #3

Pretty much. Bradical79 Dec 2015 #19

Chavez was a demagogue who dilapidated the oil windfall Yorktown Dec 2015 #4

"The people of Venezuela will no longer benefit from their country having oil"? Nye Bevan Dec 2015 #6

Pretty hard to make money on crude oil these days.... Jim Beard Dec 2015 #9

Last I heard, it was at $38.41. eom. GGJohn Dec 2015 #12

Which means things would be just as bad if Capriles had won the last election. Ken Burch Dec 2015 #16

That's why some Chavistas wanted Maduro to lose. joshcryer Dec 2015 #44

Chavez style socialism destroyed the economy. former9thward Dec 2015 #14

What is your personal experience with Venezuela? Bradical79 Dec 2015 #17

You'll find that to be the case with several prominent COLGATE4 Dec 2015 #71

Good riddance to bad rubbish n/t Godhumor Dec 2015 #18

In Venezuela, people who want to wipe their ass with toilet paper won. Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2015 #20

Privatization at fire sale prices doesn't buy toilet paper. n/t. Ken Burch Dec 2015 #21

It's a little late for that, Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2015 #22

It's not like making deals with China is automatically a moral outrage. Ken Burch Dec 2015 #45

The pillaging of Venezuela has been finished for a very long time Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2015 #66

It can never be progressive to go from socialism to capitalism, though. Ken Burch Dec 2015 #67

Have you been to Eastern Europe? Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2015 #69

That was Stalinism or state capitalism, not socialism in any recognizable sense. Ken Burch Dec 2015 #75

Without the Soviet Union the institutions of Eastern Europe were unsustainable Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2015 #93

Stalinism is just dictatorship, it has nothing in common with the values of socialism. Ken Burch Dec 2015 #94

Left to their own devices they would have been failed states in mere months. Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2015 #100

The ink has been spilled because Stalin's crimes Ken Burch Dec 2015 #105

Their most socialist website is literally... joshcryer Dec 2015 #43

Yep. Any true patriot should cheerfully COLGATE4 Dec 2015 #72

The voters spoke overwhelmingly, and can speak Codeine Dec 2015 #23

That is just awful! elias49 Dec 2015 #57

same happened with the opening of relations with Cuba JI7 Dec 2015 #92

You've badly misunderstood the concept of "freedom" FBaggins Dec 2015 #24

I warned that this would happen bluestateguy Dec 2015 #26

No. they are not allowed to have "western european democratic socialism model" Nyan Dec 2015 #35

"When they try to nationalize their natural resource so they could have middle.... EX500rider Dec 2015 #48

Yeah right Nyan Dec 2015 #62

My point was about 70% of oil producing countries have nationalized their oil.. EX500rider Dec 2015 #63

It's not just about access to Nyan Dec 2015 #64

Elections have consequences. In this case, a large majority of he voters decided that the Chanvezite Agnosticsherbet Dec 2015 #27

Funny how US government never said that about Chavez government Nyan Dec 2015 #31

Complain to the US Government, not me. The people of Venezuela have spoken. Agnosticsherbet Dec 2015 #34

So did you defend Chavez when they constantly demonize him as being tyrant Nyan Dec 2015 #36

The people of Venezuela elected Chavez. My opinion of him is irrelevant. Agnosticsherbet Dec 2015 #38

Yep Nyan Dec 2015 #29

Examples of "over the top right-wing corporate COLGATE4 Dec 2015 #73

Crickets....... COLGATE4 Dec 2015 #85

The 1% held the country hostage by hording toilet paper. Cheese Sandwich Dec 2015 #30

Once again... "the voters are too STUPID to vote for the candidate -I- like" brooklynite Dec 2015 #32

I have never insulted the voters anywhere. Ken Burch Dec 2015 #47

Bad things happen when you wreck your economy and impoverish your people. nt hack89 Dec 2015 #37

The oil price collapse made the economic crisis unavoidable. Ken Burch Dec 2015 #50

Except their economic problems WAY predate the recent drop in oil prices. EX500rider Dec 2015 #55

Actually no hack89 Dec 2015 #68

You can say the "wrong people" won Blue_Tires Dec 2015 #40

Venezuelanalysis.com PufPuf23 Dec 2015 #41

About venezuelanalysis.com.... EX500rider Dec 2015 #49

Noted. "The site has been favorable to the Bolivarian Revolution and to a Social Democracy" PufPuf23 Dec 2015 #56

Blame Saudi Arabia and U.S. oil production AZ Progressive Dec 2015 #42

Except Venz.'s economic problems predate the current downturn in oil prices.. EX500rider Dec 2015 #51

Exactly betterdemsonly Dec 2015 #54

Maduro really had a run of bad luck - he was born stupid and COLGATE4 Dec 2015 #70

At least he is not an evil greedy bully, like the people who run things now. betterdemsonly Dec 2015 #74

And just WHO do you think is "running things now"????? COLGATE4 Dec 2015 #84

Wallstreet investers and oil oligarchs that funded the opposition. betterdemsonly Dec 2015 #88

You really need to do your homework and learn something about COLGATE4 Dec 2015 #91

Incompetence can be just as bad. Adrahil Dec 2015 #103

Bernie !!!! or we're next . n/t orpupilofnature57 Dec 2015 #52

Interesting... MrWendel Dec 2015 #76

None of the poor could possibly be happy that social programs will be slashed. Ken Burch Dec 2015 #78

They had... MrWendel Dec 2015 #87

How about the ruling party lost rpannier Dec 2015 #77

I've never said the PSUV were infallible. Ken Burch Dec 2015 #79

I understand and I'm not happy at the results rpannier Dec 2015 #80

Sabotage always wins malaise Dec 2015 #81

Your home country had a horrible experience with that. Ken Burch Dec 2015 #89

At what point should the Bolivarians be held avcountable for failure? Adrahil Dec 2015 #82

At the very least, the anti-Chavista left parties should have formed their own alliance. Ken Burch Dec 2015 #95

Could they have won? Adrahil Dec 2015 #102

They could have taken enough seats to hold the balance of power between PSUV and MUD Ken Burch Dec 2015 #104

Trust me - you can fight back laserhaas Dec 2015 #86

I thank the gods I'm a Mexicanist... a la izquierda Dec 2015 #90

Silver lining: Venezuela Elects First Transgender Congresswoman in the Americas KamaAina Dec 2015 #96

It's something, I guess. Ken Burch Dec 2015 #97

"Too bad she's a right-wing stooge like Caitlyn" EX500rider Dec 2015 #98

Well, her party is in coalition with the right KamaAina Dec 2015 #99

MADuro enid602 Dec 2015 #101