General Discussion

Straw Man

(6,951 posts)

98. Unlikely.

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 04:52 PM

Dec 2015

You just said the gun can be used as deterrent, but the fact is that without an investigation, we won't be sure a crime was even going to take place in the first place.

Even with an investigation, you'd never establish it to a certainty. Yet a DGU may very well have taken place, and if you don't account for these, then you will under-report.

If some drunk pounds on your door in the middle of the night because he thinks his wife is sleeping with you, and you say "Go away -- I have a gun" and rack the slide on your shotgun, has a crime occurred? No. Has a DGU occurred? Absolutely. Will the incident be reported? Possibly.

If you go road-rage and point a pistol at another driver in traffic, has a crime occurred? Yes -- brandishing. Has a DGU occurred? No. Will the incident be reported? Not by the person pointing the gun, so not as a DGU.

Also, and this is important, if the self-reporting is accurate, then that means that a small proportion of the population is involved on some level with a significant fraction to a few times the current reported incidences of violent crime, with the only factor being gun possession.

If this is so important, perhaps you could express it more clearly. Did you get my point about people in high-risk areas being more likely to own guns for protection?

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Guns are useful for defending yourself from a home invasion [View all] AZ Progressive Dec 2015 OP

The hunters always have the advantage. Jim Beard Dec 2015 #1

They are also useful for invading a home Renew Deal Dec 2015 #2

And, kentauros Dec 2015 #3

I read a story today about a man who was shot in his yard CBGLuthier Dec 2015 #4

Why would someone care more about hurting their neighbor than defending themselves? AZ Progressive Dec 2015 #9

Yeah, in today's fuck everyone else society, that sounds about right. ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2015 #14

So your life and the life of your family doesn't matter? AZ Progressive Dec 2015 #15

As long as the innocent person who dies isn't from my family, even by my hand, it's all good? ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2015 #16

Most people think their lives and their family lives is priority #1 AZ Progressive Dec 2015 #17

I would hope if you killed your innocent neighbor's child.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2015 #18

I do, but weirdly, not at the expense of another innocent person's life Kelvin Mace Dec 2015 #53

Here's a question: Straw Man Dec 2015 #21

None of the bullets fired in this incident were in defense. CBGLuthier Dec 2015 #27

I'm not talking about that incident. Straw Man Dec 2015 #41

If someone wants my stuff so badly Kelvin Mace Dec 2015 #54

What if they want more than your stuff? Straw Man Dec 2015 #60

Yes, home invasions can result in rape and murder, Kelvin Mace Dec 2015 #66

Misconceptions abound ... Straw Man Dec 2015 #70

Okay... Let me try again Kelvin Mace Dec 2015 #75

We can play scenario games all day and night ... Straw Man Dec 2015 #83

Yes it is inconsistent too with the argument treestar Dec 2015 #91

What if lightning were to strike? We should all have portable lightning rods just in case. Ed Suspicious Dec 2015 #127

Science lesson. Straw Man Dec 2015 #131

it's called narcissism Skittles Dec 2015 #25

This whiny shit has gotta end ... Trajan Dec 2015 #76

You seem to have Hollywood slow motion fantasies of the gun violence sort. hunter Dec 2015 #46

This is my experience too: Squinch Dec 2015 #68

Idiots? Straw Man Dec 2015 #86

I have some awesome pictures of ancestors holding guns. hunter Dec 2015 #92

Let's see them. Straw Man Dec 2015 #96

This is my most civilized great grandma and my great granddad. hunter Dec 2015 #113

Thanks. Straw Man Dec 2015 #115

Bottom line is... peace13 Dec 2015 #52

Yep. The neighbor doesn't matter at all. SheilaT Dec 2015 #77

This post right here is why you shouldn't be allowed to have firearms... Humanist_Activist Dec 2015 #87

Training and education should be mandatory. JonathanRackham Dec 2015 #30

...Unless you happen to be next door or in the line of fire 951-Riverside Dec 2015 #5

Please get your eye dialect straight. Straw Man Dec 2015 #13

I'm guessing you're not a South Park fan. Le Taz Hot Dec 2015 #29

No. Straw Man Dec 2015 #39

That's the reference. Le Taz Hot Dec 2015 #45

how many home invaders are killed RandySF Dec 2015 #6

You do realize ... Straw Man Dec 2015 #11

Let me rephrase RandySF Dec 2015 #12

Let's see ... Straw Man Dec 2015 #19

These numbers are suspect, to say the least. maxsolomon Dec 2015 #61

Well, here's a fact... branford Dec 2015 #67

Suspect? Straw Man Dec 2015 #71

The reason its suspect is because, the amount of DGUs, on the high end, exceeds the amount... Humanist_Activist Dec 2015 #88

Unlikely? Straw Man Dec 2015 #90

Considering only a quarter of gun owners live in urban environments, it seems another argument of... Humanist_Activist Dec 2015 #93

How is that relevant? Straw Man Dec 2015 #95

Most violent crime happens in urban environments, and yes, why not, especially if they feel... Humanist_Activist Dec 2015 #97

Unlikely. Straw Man Dec 2015 #98

You last assertion is demonstrated to be false, unless most violent crime happens... Humanist_Activist Dec 2015 #102

Are you claiming ... Straw Man Dec 2015 #104

I linked to the Pew research poll about it, did you fail to read it? n/t Humanist_Activist Dec 2015 #108

I read it. Straw Man Dec 2015 #117

You are incorrect here as well. Humanist_Activist Dec 2015 #122

Again, I ask you ... Straw Man Dec 2015 #125

I'm pointing out that, unless you want to argue that armed people are seeking trouble... Humanist_Activist Dec 2015 #129

I'm saying that there's no reason ... Straw Man Dec 2015 #130

What percentage would you say go unreported? 10%, 20%, 50%, 100%? Humanist_Activist Dec 2015 #132

see my post #61 maxsolomon Dec 2015 #63

That sounds like the improper way to use a gun. Not supposed to draw unless you shoot MillennialDem Dec 2015 #38

Wrong. Straw Man Dec 2015 #40

Well of course not supposed to draw or shoot unless defending - but how often does a person with MillennialDem Dec 2015 #51

It depends on a lot of factors. Straw Man Dec 2015 #59

^^^THIS^^^ valerief Dec 2015 #105

The plural of anecdote is not data. HuckleB Dec 2015 #7

Guns are useless for preventing burglaries, tho jmowreader Dec 2015 #8

The same sort of thing happens in Ohio Maeve Dec 2015 #35

Call it the NRA's darkest secret jmowreader Dec 2015 #62

When I got broken into, they mostly made a mess and actually left some valuable things kcr Dec 2015 #134

How many home invasions have you stopped? tenderfoot Dec 2015 #10

The belief in the right of self-defense branford Dec 2015 #20

Your question is dishonest Orrex Dec 2015 #31

Obviously, the entire point of most of post flew right over your head. branford Dec 2015 #65

Yeah, please gunsplain it to me. Orrex Dec 2015 #74

Well, apparently branford did explain it to you and you didn't like the answer, GGJohn Dec 2015 #79

... Spider Jerusalem Dec 2015 #22

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2015 #23

don't gun humpers have a forum? Skittles Dec 2015 #24

That's what yuiyoshida Dec 2015 #58

We like to hump in Guns Discussion. That seems OK by the Mods... Eleanors38 Dec 2015 #72

PC Principal here! We don't call them gun humpers. That's disrespectful. valerief Dec 2015 #106

All violent confrontation involves a health risk to both parties Shankapotomus Dec 2015 #26

Here are some points to ponder CBGLuthier Dec 2015 #28

Very little is needed to validate a thought that one is biased to already believe HereSince1628 Dec 2015 #32

As keeping a firearm in my home dramatically increases the chances LanternWaste Dec 2015 #33

anytime lives are on the line guns are useful. ileus Dec 2015 #34

Now post some stories of accidental shootings! Nt Logical Dec 2015 #36

Hint: Google "thought was intruder killed" (without the quotes). Nye Bevan Dec 2015 #37

Nice catch lame54 Dec 2015 #56

Unless this sort of thing is common and frequent in my neighborhood, it's just not worth it. Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2015 #42

Our house is the same... Docreed2003 Dec 2015 #78

Some people who value youtube videos over scientific evidence. DanTex Dec 2015 #43

Indeed. That's why I keep a loaded 12 gauge handy. NaturalHigh Dec 2015 #44

Guns don't make anyone safer Major Nikon Dec 2015 #47

If you can't defend your home with a shotgun or a bolt-action rifle, tabasco Dec 2015 #48

I think when someone breaks in with a semi-auto... TampaAnimusVortex Dec 2015 #69

I pity people who live in fear. tabasco Dec 2015 #111

I pity people who can't think. TampaAnimusVortex Dec 2015 #120

Interesting. Straw Man Dec 2015 #84

Because they have a place in law enforcement tabasco Dec 2015 #112

Ah, the magic cops ... Straw Man Dec 2015 #116

So non-cowards TeddyR Dec 2015 #126

I'm actually for significant gun control, but I believe in the right to defend oneself AZ Progressive Dec 2015 #49

I lulz'd KG Dec 2015 #50

Guns get stolen from homes by criminals - A LOT lame54 Dec 2015 #55

Everybody dies, it is a given--- Killing is a choice, it is a karmic decision sanatanadharma Dec 2015 #57

".....that lead to ethical-moral failures like killing." EX500rider Dec 2015 #64

This message was self-deleted by its author AZ Progressive Dec 2015 #73

I'm old school, and I prefer that world. There wasn't a concern about getting shot because you rusty quoin Dec 2015 #80

Get an alarm or a dog mwrguy Dec 2015 #81

Not always a solution. Kilgore Dec 2015 #101

I could have almost written your post. Boudica the Lyoness Dec 2015 #119

We love living in what is essentially the middle of nowhere Kilgore Dec 2015 #121

So, have to keep them an option for rural people who have little crime kcr Dec 2015 #136

So your argument is basically "rural lives don't matter" ?? Kilgore Dec 2015 #137

"Millions" of gun deaths? beevul Dec 2015 #138

This: wickerwoman Dec 2015 #82

Really? Straw Man Dec 2015 #85

But most guns in homes are far more likely to kill or injure a family member pnwmom Dec 2015 #89

So true edhopper Dec 2015 #123

So are you encouraging people to not store guns safely in the home? Humanist_Activist Dec 2015 #94

My weapons are locked up, now. When home, loaded and ready. Eleanors38 Dec 2015 #99

So you are a reckless gun owner. n/t Humanist_Activist Dec 2015 #103

No.nt Eleanors38 Dec 2015 #107

So you do store your guns safely when not in use? n/t Humanist_Activist Dec 2015 #109

As per #99. Eleanors38 Dec 2015 #110

So, you're constantly getting broken into? Wow. I'd move n/t kcr Dec 2015 #135

Nope. And my Truman-era house has not burned, despite insurance. Eleanors38 Dec 2015 #139

Ready for what? Are you expecting an invasion leftyladyfrommo Dec 2015 #141

"Ready:". For use. I don't require a resume or portfolio for B&E punks... Eleanors38 Dec 2015 #142

Refreshing to see a reasonable post. Hopefully, many more to follow in GD. Eleanors38 Dec 2015 #100

Your basic shotgun or hunting rifle will do just fine for 99.999% of all home invasion type Downtown Hound Dec 2015 #114

This message was self-deleted by its author Go Vols Dec 2015 #118

One less bad guy in N. St. Louis County today. pintobean Dec 2015 #124

Why is this in GD? I thought there was a dedicated toile... errr... home for this stuff. Ed Suspicious Dec 2015 #128

Yep, such cherry picking is definitely effective to convince people kcr Dec 2015 #133

They are also useful for killing sentient creatures, regardless of place, time or context. LanternWaste Dec 2015 #140