General Discussion

PufPuf23

(9,870 posts)

31. The problem with Hillary Clinton is that she is the fulcrum of a deeply divided Democratic Party

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 11:19 PM

Dec 2015

as well as the most disliked national-level Democratic Party politician within the DP and in the USA as a whole.

The Democratic Party should and likely will win the next election for POTUS easily with or without HRC as candidate.

In the likely event that Hillary Clinton wins POTUS, the nation and the Democratic Party will retain a political landscape that is deeply divided and bitter and would likely get worse.

I worry that the GOP will draft a POTUS candidate late in the cycle that is competent and sane and as a result Hillary Clinton loses and we have a GOP POTUS in 2017.

The Democratic Party would be better off if Hillary Clinton dropped out of the POTUS cycle and allowed a clear and open field to develop. Other suitable and superior DP candidates are blocked by HRC.

If Hillary Clinton and her supporters put HRC and their ambitions second to what is good for the USA, Hillary Clinton would drop out of the POTUS election cycle.

I have spent my life as a good partisan for the Democratic Party.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

251 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

I hope we have a lot of trolls here at DU. [View all] Atticus Dec 2015 OP

K&R. Hopefully we'll all come together at some point. Laffy Kat Dec 2015 #1

For all the drama that's happening here between Bernie and Hillary fans... backscatter712 Dec 2015 #170

I will vote for Bernie in the primary, I will vote my conscience in the general. I will NOT peacebird Dec 2015 #2

Hopefully, your face will not miss your nose too much. nt Atticus Dec 2015 #4

Pretty sure my nose and face will be fine, thanks. peacebird Dec 2015 #8

Good. Peace to you. nt Atticus Dec 2015 #9

We need to replace that persons vote, since they dont seem to care. randys1 Dec 2015 #153

And that's exactly why you vote the way you do kcr Dec 2015 #209

Actually you have it wrong. I do not think I will be fine either way, I am sure that neither peacebird Dec 2015 #225

It didn't take long at all for a little bird to fly by and crap on your thread. I'm sorry. MADem Dec 2015 #11

I'm in California. Trump has insured that no Republican will win here in 2016. JDPriestly Dec 2015 #202

Unbelievable. MADem Dec 2015 #207

You are so right. Laser102 Dec 2015 #213

If Hillary stands ZERO chance of winning my deep RED state, bvar22 Dec 2015 #247

It really comes down to Plucketeer Dec 2015 #40

and principle include DonCoquixote Dec 2015 #82

Problem with that is Plucketeer Dec 2015 #88

And you would live with enabling a Supreme Court entrenching corporate and reactionary power Arneoker Dec 2015 #97

You mean like how the current SCOTUS TM99 Dec 2015 #102

If we are to follow your advice, what is the long-term outcome? Maedhros Dec 2015 #184

The results of the next election skepticscott Dec 2015 #129

If you are Gay or a Woman or a minority or you are AIR, you are at GREAT risk randys1 Dec 2015 #155

AIR? nt Codeine Dec 2015 #224

You mean the way 200,000 Democrats TM99 Dec 2015 #103

That is NOT what happened in 2000. bvar22 Dec 2015 #176

+1. And Third Way Dems colluded with that. closeupready Dec 2015 #245

I don't think you recognize that people are getting sick of being manipulated but the 1%. rhett o rick Dec 2015 #69

Yeah, leave you psychoanalysis out of this. Adrahil Dec 2015 #98

You exemplify just how bad it's gotten in this country. The normalization of total domination rhett o rick Dec 2015 #167

NO. Adrahil Dec 2015 #177

Forgive my passion but at some point we must draw a line and fight. Sanders may not be rhett o rick Dec 2015 #179

I disagree. But of course I forgive your passion. Adrahil Dec 2015 #200

Thanks. And yes I understand but I am getting scared. The farther we slide down this slope into rhett o rick Dec 2015 #201

Hillary loses and Ted Cruz wins. Dems will not think they have to move to the left to earn votes kcr Dec 2015 #210

You can shake your finger all you want but those that decide to stay home will do so becaue they rhett o rick Dec 2015 #212

And those who stay home can sulk and pout all they want. It won't change the fact kcr Dec 2015 #214

But all we have to do to make sure that none of that happens, is to support a candidate rhett o rick Dec 2015 #234

That's why I support Bernie. But I will also vote to make sure a Repub, especially one like Trump kcr Dec 2015 #235

I beleive that Bill and Hillary Clinton do not give a crap about me and that started in the DhhD Dec 2015 #118

do you think they are as bad as a Republican though? Fast Walker 52 Dec 2015 #241

Concur 40RatRod Dec 2015 #115

Voting for somebody who can't win out of "conscience" is assisting the GOP, pnwmom Dec 2015 #5

Agree, there is no other way to put it JohnnyRingo Dec 2015 #33

Won't matter if we all vote for our party zeemike Dec 2015 #46

If you're saying the vast center elects our presidents... JohnnyRingo Dec 2015 #91

Bernie Sanders is not a FAR LEFT candidate! Why do you say that? Enthusiast Dec 2015 #99

+1000 To those on the right, he would naturally appear far left. raouldukelives Dec 2015 #121

I think you're referring to what they call "socialized medicine". JohnnyRingo Dec 2015 #128

What a load of crap! Yeah. If you mislead people about single payer they will turn against it. Enthusiast Dec 2015 #131

I know it. I'm already sold. JohnnyRingo Dec 2015 #140

thank you. Given that Senator Sanders positions on issues come the closest to the way most ordinary Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #166

Well you are wrong about that comparison with Trump. zeemike Dec 2015 #117

That's funny, I was a Nader Trader. eggplant Dec 2015 #49

What you did was fine. But Nader saved his campaigning for the swing states pnwmom Dec 2015 #60

So my point stands. eggplant Dec 2015 #78

It seems you supported the Green Party on election day JohnnyRingo Dec 2015 #92

It did. eggplant Dec 2015 #126

If everyone eligible to vote did so... JohnnyRingo Dec 2015 #137

I respect your opinion. eggplant Dec 2015 #159

I mutually agree. JohnnyRingo Dec 2015 #168

People who live in solidly blue states can vote for whoever they feel like without fear. eggplant Dec 2015 #47

That's a good way for a "solid" state to turn purple or red. n/t pnwmom Dec 2015 #61

Really? eggplant Dec 2015 #76

Sorry, but the "I live in a solid blue state, so my vote doesn't matter" skepticscott Dec 2015 #130

Thank you for your concern. eggplant Dec 2015 #157

Convictions and principle are indeed, rather inconvenient to the political process. LanternWaste Dec 2015 #104

What if it is Hillary or Trump? brush Dec 2015 #6

Then we are well and truly effed. peacebird Dec 2015 #7

Yeah? Guess what, YOU would be the Gloria Dec 2015 #68

Really? JohnnyRingo Dec 2015 #34

No, just wanted to see where the poster I responded to was going. brush Dec 2015 #67

IMO, we are screwed either way. n/t Hepburn Dec 2015 #189

I'm with you... raindaddy Dec 2015 #37

You'll be missed around here redstateblues Dec 2015 #64

Probably not so much... raindaddy Dec 2015 #79

+1000 MissDeeds Dec 2015 #41

Why shouldn't you vote your conscience? The Second Stone Dec 2015 #62

Agreed LW1977 Dec 2015 #134

+1 ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2015 #174

Same Lorien Dec 2015 #90

I do hope you've done your research Lilith Rising Dec 2015 #190

+1 nt Javaman Dec 2015 #122

Still don't care who you vote for. MoonRiver Dec 2015 #133

And this is why you don't 'get' Bernie supporters zalinda Dec 2015 #151

Most of Hillary's supporters traditionally have been lower MC. MoonRiver Dec 2015 #156

exactly Lazy Daisy Dec 2015 #217

Speak for yourself. This Bernie supporter wishes others would actually listen to him. kcr Dec 2015 #221

If you're not voting for the Democratic nominee... philosslayer Dec 2015 #173

do you really think the Dems will move more left if Hillary loses to Trump? Fast Walker 52 Dec 2015 #185

I agree. I do not get that logic at all. kcr Dec 2015 #211

Indeed... and historically the Dems have moved more right when they lose elections Fast Walker 52 Dec 2015 #240

Seriously? lark Dec 2015 #188

I plan on doing the same. Katashi_itto Dec 2015 #196

Not so much trolls as 'campaign season invective'. It's a lot like the old WoW forums. Shandris Dec 2015 #3

How about 3 more Scalias? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2015 #10

It's not the votes of the rather collegial senate at issue--it is who does the nominating. MADem Dec 2015 #13

And it makes no difference zeemike Dec 2015 #48

It makes a difference when the nominee is a Sotomayor or an Alito. MADem Dec 2015 #53

Well I would rather have Sanders do the picking. zeemike Dec 2015 #56

That's not going to happen. MADem Dec 2015 #57

That kind of certainty always gives me pause. zeemike Dec 2015 #58

Look, I just have been around for a long time. MADem Dec 2015 #63

Well I have been around a few years too. zeemike Dec 2015 #83

I don't think Sanders wants the job. MADem Dec 2015 #87

Excellent post, MADem. nt brer cat Dec 2015 #93

Make that two excellent posts. MeNMyVolt Dec 2015 #120

Hope springs eternal for me too zeemike Dec 2015 #114

I agree he seems to be in this more to make a point Jinx Dec 2015 #198

I'll also add that they're hurting Bernie and what he's trying to do kcr Dec 2015 #220

The chief justice does not decide what cases are heard!!!! Progressive dog Dec 2015 #163

Not exactly no. zeemike Dec 2015 #183

Exactly so-"influence in framing the discussion" Progressive dog Dec 2015 #208

Frame it as you will. zeemike Dec 2015 #229

In your imagination "he does decide" Progressive dog Dec 2015 #231

Right, that Citizens United went the liberal way. zeemike Dec 2015 #236

The Chief Justice's importance seems to have disappeared Progressive dog Dec 2015 #242

Not at all, in fact it is the argument. zeemike Dec 2015 #244

It takes 4 justices to hear a case Progressive dog Dec 2015 #248

And the right has 5 zeemike Dec 2015 #250

None of the RW 5 were appointed by Bill Clinton Progressive dog Dec 2015 #251

Thanks for the facts in this regard... haikugal Dec 2015 #16

You make an excellent point. And you made me say WTF? Enthusiast Dec 2015 #100

So, those same Dems would have voted for Scalia, even if there was no Scalia nominated? kcr Dec 2015 #232

We do. onehandle Dec 2015 #12

these people aren't trolls dlwickham Dec 2015 #15

they may be around once Hillary wins the nomination but I doubt too many of them will stick around.. AlbertCat Dec 2015 #27

+1. eggplant Dec 2015 #50

Yes it is..... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #113

Um, no. eggplant Dec 2015 #127

Um yes.... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #132

Your concern is noted. eggplant Dec 2015 #158

my concern was not at question VanillaRhapsody Dec 2015 #160

Amen, Atticus. Hekate Dec 2015 #14

Billboards advertising a certain zoo started to appear about 40 miles away edgineered Dec 2015 #17

Don't feed those trolls. That's what they want. Cali_Democrat Dec 2015 #18

GD:P is just training for the main event. wildeyed Dec 2015 #19

K&R ismnotwasm Dec 2015 #20

I still don't get this kind of post Kalidurga Dec 2015 #21

The party cannot continue to move to the right and expect liberals to stay with it Doctor_J Dec 2015 #22

Wrong. The party will not move to the left if it cannot count on its votes. kcr Dec 2015 #223

They will show up to vote for someone who will represent them Doctor_J Dec 2015 #228

What is ridiculous about it? You don't care if Trump is elected? kcr Dec 2015 #230

I'm still waiting... quickesst Dec 2015 #23

Anyone who says they won't vote if Clinton is the nominee says so because cui bono Dec 2015 #26

Amen to that GummyBearz Dec 2015 #38

Illogical quickesst Dec 2015 #52

You say illogical yet you don't point out why. cui bono Dec 2015 #70

Simple quickesst Dec 2015 #94

How about you read up TM99 Dec 2015 #165

Interesting article, but..... quickesst Dec 2015 #192

Think about... TM99 Dec 2015 #195

I couldn't agree more. n/t RoccoR5955 Dec 2015 #125

You are completely wrong. cui bono Dec 2015 #24

You campaigned for Adlai Stevenson? Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #25

I did. Atticus Dec 2015 #45

That is damned respectable, sir. nt navarth Dec 2015 #84

Fully capable of holding my nose and voting. Had a lot of practice. Hopefully, I won't have to this Hiraeth Dec 2015 #28

Sadly ... relayerbob Dec 2015 #29

I agree. I know Bernie, rather met him one time but lived in his flamingdem Dec 2015 #30

The problem with Hillary Clinton is that she is the fulcrum of a deeply divided Democratic Party PufPuf23 Dec 2015 #31

not that DUers will be the election's focus MisterP Dec 2015 #42

Of course there are. annabanana Dec 2015 #32

Well, for good or ill, TDale313 Dec 2015 #35

A lot of us from less-populated states have even less voice Art_from_Ark Dec 2015 #54

I support the Democratic party candidates. Hell, I'd support more of them. Show folks who we are. L. Coyote Dec 2015 #36

Let's Discuss This Later.. gordyfl Dec 2015 #39

How many of these threads do we need? nt TheFarseer Dec 2015 #43

Apparently, an endless echo chamber of them. eggplant Dec 2015 #51

Until the beatings cause morale to improve. (nt) jeff47 Dec 2015 #150

Supreme Court spanone Dec 2015 #44

yep, move in lockstep! Pharaoh Dec 2015 #55

There are a lot of trolls here, murielm99 Dec 2015 #59

If you define a troll as someone that never posts anything substantive about issues rhett o rick Dec 2015 #72

Oh my, aren't we a ray of sunshine? murielm99 Dec 2015 #86

Thank you for being a voice of sanity.... Gloria Dec 2015 #65

trolls and move right w0nderer Dec 2015 #66

Damn straight Diremoon Dec 2015 #71

Primaries are also where you build a platform.... Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2015 #73

Huge +1! Enthusiast Dec 2015 #101

Well stated. frylock Dec 2015 #169

I will vote for a non-repub and a non-Clinton in the GE bigwillq Dec 2015 #74

Not a troll. Not a democrat either. redstateblues Dec 2015 #75

Nah bigwillq Dec 2015 #77

And I live in NC wildeyed Dec 2015 #105

If I lived in red or purple state bigwillq Dec 2015 #110

Why do some of you keep repeating the dangerous meme about ecstatic Dec 2015 #141

If enough people do that, then maybe the party establishment is pushing the wrong candidate on us. frylock Dec 2015 #171

And again, you miss the point. You view this as a chance to get back at the party ecstatic Dec 2015 #203

Let me lay this out for you: I'm not a Democrat.. frylock Dec 2015 #204

Fine, but this is *DEMOCRATIC* underground. FYI. nt ecstatic Dec 2015 #205

The only ones who say they won't vote for the Democratic nominee whoever it is, are irrelevent still_one Dec 2015 #80

The same reason you're posting in this thread. The same reason anyone posts anything anywhere kcr Dec 2015 #219

Oh yes. Definitely some gop trolls on this board stirring up meme like Bernie supporters not voting applegrove Dec 2015 #81

K&R GOTV and let's put an end to GOP stalemate ffr Dec 2015 #85

I will not be bullied into voting for ANYONE. Maedhros Dec 2015 #89

My conscience will direct (or bully, if you will) how I vote Arneoker Dec 2015 #95

My conscience won't let me vote for Hillary. [n/t] Maedhros Dec 2015 #144

Ooga booga, must vote hrc or you get worse. PowerToThePeople Dec 2015 #96

Or you could start developed a more nuanced understanding of the process wildeyed Dec 2015 #106

And BTW, you not voting is part of the plan. wildeyed Dec 2015 #108

Well, I certainly have been convinced that if HRC is not nominated, that... Buzz Clik Dec 2015 #107

Hillary's chokehold on the nominating process is deeply undemocratic. alarimer Dec 2015 #109

They said that about her in 2008 too. wildeyed Dec 2015 #139

My biggest worry are the Dems that won't vote at all bigbrother05 Dec 2015 #111

There are more independents than Democrats eridani Dec 2015 #112

It's interesting, because on the ground here in my home state, the PatrickforO Dec 2015 #116

Amen! JeaneRaye Dec 2015 #119

this thread wins the award for best hyperbole. Javaman Dec 2015 #123

It actually might. wildeyed Dec 2015 #143

also lacks real substance and evidence. nt Javaman Dec 2015 #181

True dat. wildeyed Dec 2015 #194

You are not the problem and I am not the problem...but there is a problem. Hepburn Dec 2015 #124

Okay then.. LW1977 Dec 2015 #138

Whaaaat? wildeyed Dec 2015 #145

Yeah, I planted myself here in 2004 just in case HRC ran for POTUS! Hepburn Dec 2015 #147

Fucking polls and their right-wing bias, right? jeff47 Dec 2015 #154

Try some deodarant. frylock Dec 2015 #172

Yeah- all the down ballot Socialists will be hurt redstateblues Dec 2015 #146

All the down ballot liberals will be hurt. Hepburn Dec 2015 #149

Trolls, anarchists, and one issue (or one candidate) voters ecstatic Dec 2015 #135

Trolls... Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2015 #136

This is the primary. Advocate for candidate. JEB Dec 2015 #142

Given who owns HRC, what makes you think she won't appoint corporatists ... modestybl Dec 2015 #148

I don't take anyone seriously who threatens to sufrommich Dec 2015 #152

I think what HRC needs to worry about, if she is the nom, is the growing # of left independents aikoaiko Dec 2015 #161

If a growing number of the left are petulant, that's a problem kcr Dec 2015 #216

Some may be petulant, others genuinely disenfranchised aikoaiko Dec 2015 #227

How does that imply that Hillary is no better than a Republican? kcr Dec 2015 #233

It implies itbecause otherwise white liberal middle class males would support HRC aikoaiko Dec 2015 #237

100% dpatbrown Dec 2015 #162

Don't confuse hoping they win the Republican nomination with hoping they win the election. briv1016 Dec 2015 #164

Meta! Iggo Dec 2015 #175

Big f'in KnR! Beartracks Dec 2015 #178

Pardon me while I call bullshit on your post. floriduck Dec 2015 #180

she will support justices that support women's rights, that is for sure. If nothing else, that is Fast Walker 52 Dec 2015 #186

Maybe...unless her 1% pals disagree. n/t Hepburn Dec 2015 #191

Let's say you're right and it's a maybe. I would take my chances with maybe over definitely not. kcr Dec 2015 #218

Here's the problem Hepburn Dec 2015 #238

+1000000. I don't trust Hillary. On anything. CharlotteVale Dec 2015 #197

I'll raise you 1,000,000 on that! n/t Hepburn Dec 2015 #239

I am also supporting Bernie, and I will vote for Clinton if she's the nominee. stillwaiting Dec 2015 #182

I cannot see how Hillary is anywhere close to how bad the GOP is these days. Fast Walker 52 Dec 2015 #187

I absolutely will not vote for Pat Paulsen again and you can't make me! randome Dec 2015 #193

100% agreement!!! wolfie001 Dec 2015 #199

There are also a lot of people who talk madness rpannier Dec 2015 #206

sometimes i can't tell the diff btween trolls and idiots certainot Dec 2015 #215

We're still doing this? Is it just copy/paste at this point? WhaTHellsgoingonhere Dec 2015 #222

I will vote for Bernie. I am done being the good girl & voting for the lesser evil. peacebird Dec 2015 #226

Well, i hope you enjoy your last few weeks at DU philosslayer Dec 2015 #246

I think you and the Hillary team are in for a shocking case of deja vu! peacebird Dec 2015 #249

not this shit again reddread Dec 2015 #243