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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
72. This sub thread is about unemployment INSURANCE NOT employment law
Wed Dec 30, 2015, 11:13 PM
Dec 2015

Unemployment Insurance and Employment law are two DIFFERENT set of laws. What you say is true about EMPLOYMENT law but if an employee is unemployed for NO Fault of his own, then he is eligible for UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE. Thus if an employer fires an employee for NO reason, that employee can NOT sue to get his job back OR for damages do to the lost of a job, BUT the employee can file for unemployment and unless the employer can show willful misconduct by the employee, the employee will get unemployment.

When I was in College taking business law the professor mentioned your employment handbook is NOT your employment contract. When I stared to practice unemployment insurance law, I found out why such handbooks exists. In cases involving Unemployment INSURANCE, if the employer does NOT follow the procedures set forth in the handbook, they tend to lose unemployment insurance cases. If employers follow such procedures, they tend to win such cases. Thus employment handbook is a way for an employer to defend themselves in unemployment insurance cases.

Employers want to defend themselves for the taxes that support unemployment were set by Congress to be paid by Employers based on what the employers paid in wages. 2/3rds of the money collected are allocated to the states to be paid as unemployment, 1/3 to be paid to the Federal Government to set up the unemployment system (The actual employees are STATE employees but paid via the FEDERAL portion of unemployment taxes).

The states allocated its 2/3rds of unemployment taxes to pay people who are unemployed for no fault of their own, AND every state reduce the unemployment taxes due, based on how often an employee lays someone off work EXCEPT when such an employee does NOT apply for unemployment OR if they do, it is denied, generally for Wilful Misconduct. Thus employers have reasons to fight unemployment claims for the more claims made on them, the higher taxes they must pay (Please note the 2.1% tax rate with .7% going to the Feds, and 1.4% going to the states, is the minimum tax rate, the State MAY have higher rates if needed to pay unemployment insurance, when states do adopt such rates MOST are reducible based on lay off rates just like the 1.4% is).

What is unemployment was left up to the states but someone who is laid off do to the lack of work or the employer has no money to be pay workers wages, the Federal Government has called the bare minimum a state can adopt as someone who is unemployed for purposes on Unemployment Insurance purposes. Most states have extended the right to unemployment to include people who are laid off by employers UNLESS the employer committed some sort of "Wilful Misconduct".

What is "Wilful Misconduct" varies from state to state, for example in most states if your employer locks you out because of a Union contract dispute, the union members locked out get unemployment compensation, but no unemployment compensation if they go on strike (North Dakota is a state that denies unemployment insurance even in cases of lock outs, so this rule is NOT universal, thus you have to check your home state unemployment rules).

What is "Wilful Misconduct"? That is a violation of a rule of the employer (unless that rule is universally ignored) anything that harms the employer. The following is constantly being repeated in Pennsylvania unemployment insurance cases, for it is a quote from the Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court in 1977 as:

As a general principle in order to deny unemployment compensation benefits to an employee, his or her action must involve a wanton or willful disregard of the employer's interest, a deliberate violation of the employer's rules, a disregard of standards of behavior which the employer has the right to expect of his employees, or negligence in such degree or recurrence as to manifest culpability, wrongful intent, or evil design, or show an intentional and substantial disregard of the employer's interests or of the employee's duties and obligations to the employer.

http://employmentlaw101.blogspot.com/2010/03/pennsylvania-unemployment-hearings-what.html#sthash.tJ4XyDqw.dpuf


This follows a 1972 Commonwealth Court Case that followed a 1951 Pennsylvania Superior Court Case (in 1969, when the present Pennsylvania Constitution was written, the Convention crated Commonwealth Court to hear cases involving government entities such as the Board of unemployment compensation).

Unfortunately, the Legislature has not defined the phrase "willful misconduct". The appellate courts of this Commonwealth have endeavored to establish the standards to be applied in willful misconduct cases. As a general principle in order to deny unemployment compensation benefits to an employee, his or her action must involve a wanton or willful disregard of the employer's interest, a deliberate violation of the employer's rules, a disregard of standards of behavior which the employer has the right to expect of his employees, or negligence in such degree or recurrence as to manifest culpability, wrongful intent, or evil design, or show an intentional and substantial disregard of the employer's interests or of the employee's duties and obligations to the employer.

http://www.leagle.com/decision/19724906PaCommw484_1423/LODER%20v.%20UNEMPL.%20COMP.%20BD.%20OF%20REVIEW


Here is the 1972 case:

http://www.leagle.com/decision/19724906PaCommw484_1423/LODER%20v.%20UNEMPL.%20COMP.%20BD.%20OF%20REVIEW

The 1951 case:

http://www.leagle.com/decision/1951459168PaSuper291_1407/DETTERER%20UNEMP.%20COMPENSATION%20CASE

Given that paragraph includes the phase "willful disregard of the employer's interest" that is enough to deny this man unemployment compensation UNLESS he can show he was CLEARLY not representing his employer at the time of the incident. Thus grounds to be denied unemployment.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

And once again, cell phone video and social media prove far greater than the initial hype . . . Journeyman Dec 2015 #1
Yep! Another Trump voter that Bernie covets. AllTooEasy Dec 2015 #104
Why would you say Bernie would give anyone the finger. He is better than that.... riversedge Dec 2015 #105
Really shoehorned that in, didn't you? Ikonoklast Dec 2015 #118
His wait time at the Unemployment Office & soup lines will hopefully give this guy some time 99th_Monkey Dec 2015 #2
Maybe to think of his fellow man.... daleanime Dec 2015 #15
I doubt if he'll get unemployment meow2u3 Dec 2015 #18
He may be screwed as far as unemployment for sure. My employers policy is to never contest brewens Dec 2015 #77
Don't bet on it OnlinePoker Dec 2015 #21
Trump's VP ?? SCantiGOP Dec 2015 #26
Maybe not VP ChazInAz Dec 2015 #100
I try to avoid the words "never" and "always" 99th_Monkey Dec 2015 #59
Don't worry- his wife, if he has one, will have plenty of blame to hang on him. NBachers Dec 2015 #116
What a creature he is. Glad he got fired, the racist obnoxious jerk. n/t RKP5637 Dec 2015 #3
I'm not. Volaris Dec 2015 #35
You make a good point SCantiGOP Dec 2015 #70
Why shouldn't a company fire somebody who does something stupid mythology Dec 2015 #71
I can see some of your points, but I sure would not want to work with him or even be near him RKP5637 Dec 2015 #79
Heck, I would fire someone just for being so stupid that he didn't realize an uploaded video tblue37 Dec 2015 #4
Agree!! Kber Dec 2015 #6
Those responsible for his world view no doubt Turbineguy Dec 2015 #5
Philadelphia in the east, Pittsburgh in the west... MrScorpio Dec 2015 #7
Except this county is just north of Pittsburgh, about 35 miles............ mrmpa Dec 2015 #23
Pittsburgh, AlbertCat Dec 2015 #98
The Pennsylvania "T". drm604 Dec 2015 #34
Unfortunately it's spreading tech3149 Dec 2015 #90
Those straight thinking working class people were the target of a right-wing propaganda campaign. drm604 Dec 2015 #92
I grew up in Western Pennsyltucky and was pretty proud of the people I grew up with tech3149 Jan 2016 #136
Whow. and stupid enough to look straight at the camera over and over. Sad but he will riversedge Dec 2015 #8
Probably true.... daleanime Dec 2015 #16
People like him are incorrigible. He will never get it. n/t RKP5637 Dec 2015 #78
Bye bye asshole hope you never find work again . You are not fit for a modern civil society Person 2713 Dec 2015 #9
Hey Pisone ever had a SECOND job? No? Well goodluck finding one! Rex Dec 2015 #10
I thought you could not get unemployment if you are fired for cause. Tipperary Dec 2015 #17
Generally Major Nikon Dec 2015 #29
You're most likely correct dorkzilla Dec 2015 #43
Most people can be fired for any reason not prohibited by law Major Nikon Dec 2015 #46
This sub thread is about unemployment INSURANCE NOT employment law happyslug Dec 2015 #72
This sub thread and any other is about whatever anyone wants to discuss Major Nikon Dec 2015 #87
You obviously do not practice Unemployment compensation law in Pennsylvania happyslug Dec 2015 #93
I'm not much for anonymously claimed expertise on the internet either Major Nikon Dec 2015 #94
Excellent response. Tipperary Dec 2015 #95
When he apllies he'll have to explain why . . . brush Dec 2015 #45
It might, but it shouldn't Major Nikon Dec 2015 #50
All good points. Even a hole racist like him have rights brush Dec 2015 #74
What a disgrace. Laurian Dec 2015 #11
Well, it's been a few hours. madamesilverspurs Dec 2015 #12
Ha! Like Joe the plumber -John the Unemployed Bigot. Rose Siding Dec 2015 #42
"John-the-Unemployed-Bigot"--Love it!! n/t zazen Jan 2016 #125
That was my first thought! Plucketeer Dec 2015 #60
Good! I'm glad there were consequences for this! BuelahWitch Dec 2015 #13
Another moron and asshole created by RW Jeebus America. nt valerief Dec 2015 #14
Oh Yes!! malaise Dec 2015 #19
This message was self-deleted by its author juxtaposed Dec 2015 #20
This message was self-deleted by its author Major Nikon Dec 2015 #24
thanks, didn't know but if anyone wants it it's out there on fb. juxtaposed Dec 2015 #25
... Major Nikon Dec 2015 #22
No doubt Donald Trump will hire him as his Pennsylvania as his local campaign manager. George II Dec 2015 #27
With any luck JackInGreen Dec 2015 #28
Wow. So this is what we see when the filters ... Whiskeytide Dec 2015 #30
Now watch the dude suck up tax dollars. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2015 #31
Hopefully he didn't have kids Catherine Vincent Dec 2015 #32
He said he'd only seen 10 people of color in his life Generic Other Dec 2015 #33
He was very cool. Admirable. nt TeamPooka Dec 2015 #109
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Dec 2015 #36
I've posted before about how I hate it when people's livelihoods are taken.... Inkfreak Dec 2015 #37
Actions should have consequences though dorkzilla Dec 2015 #44
A bit simplistic. But as stated, no problems with this one. Inkfreak Dec 2015 #66
Oversimplified for sure dorkzilla Dec 2015 #73
I get your point. This crossed the line I think! Nt Logical Dec 2015 #82
Good cindyperry Dec 2015 #38
bet his parents are proud of him rurallib Dec 2015 #39
Get a job...hippies. How orginal... SammyWinstonJack Dec 2015 #40
I thought the same thing SCantiGOP Dec 2015 #62
The dog whistle is simply now a foghorn. They dont even try and hide who they are litlbilly Dec 2015 #41
Actions have consequences...and that swings both ways. Moostache Dec 2015 #47
your post is very thoughtful and insightful. however, I will point out that one can well understand niyad Dec 2015 #55
Fair enough and certainly valid... Moostache Dec 2015 #64
Wait a minute, so you think the company made a mistake firing him.????? Logical Dec 2015 #84
Oh, I see ... Moostache Dec 2015 #114
Yeah, yeah yeah. Whatever. Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2015 #91
yep, pretty much Locrian Dec 2015 #102
Clearly from the Alabama part of Pennsylvania. nt Lucky Luciano Dec 2015 #48
The Quakers 1939 Jan 2016 #130
K&R ... Words and actions have consequences. JohnnyRingo Dec 2015 #49
very interesting addition to the information here, including who the protestors were: niyad Dec 2015 #51
may this scum receive everything he deserves. niyad Dec 2015 #52
As Herr Trumf would say shadowmayor Dec 2015 #53
you mean, der drumpfenfuhrer? niyad Dec 2015 #67
Si shadowmayor Dec 2015 #86
McCain had Joe the Plumber. Now Chump has John the Woodchucker Scootaloo Dec 2015 #54
From the comments section... TeeYiYi Dec 2015 #56
absolutely wonderful. KO used to take great delight in pointing out that the free speech thingy niyad Dec 2015 #69
His past history with the n word Liberal_in_LA Dec 2015 #57
Dude... TeeYiYi Dec 2015 #63
Sounds like he's using racism to compensate for some massive insecurities. The gun too! arcane1 Dec 2015 #80
Yep shadowmayor Dec 2015 #65
He writes like James Joyce set on stupid. lob1 Dec 2015 #68
"James Joyce set on stupid." johnp3907 Dec 2015 #75
.... SMC22307 Dec 2015 #83
+100 !! (NT) reACTIONary Dec 2015 #124
Is he trying to show off his noodly arms or his pink Dollar Tree body wash? LeftyMom Dec 2015 #85
Good questions. Why show off the gun in the bathroom? Liberal_in_LA Dec 2015 #89
He's either SwankyXomb Jan 2016 #131
What's the over/under on when he gets a gig with Fox News..... rdmtimp Dec 2015 #58
Yeah. I wonder who he is voting for.... Enthusiast Dec 2015 #61
Piss on John Pisone! Sorry, someone had to say it... nomorenomore08 Dec 2015 #76
I have to point out that his views on fracking agree with those of the Republicons, HRC, and rhett o rick Dec 2015 #81
Another gun nut with metallic courage strapped to his thigh. Oneironaut Dec 2015 #88
This whole 'get the person who pissed you off fired' thing really needs to stop. Marr Dec 2015 #96
Why do you think they fired the racist? Cali_Democrat Dec 2015 #97
More likely because they were afraid of losing business, and being buried on Yelp. Marr Dec 2015 #103
Or (I know this may sound weird), the company gives 2 shits about their employees. Glassunion Dec 2015 #108
this idiot made a choice to make a racist rant in public noiretextatique Dec 2015 #112
Wow, are you missing the whole point! This racist idiot deserves to be fired. I am sure the..... Logical Dec 2015 #120
I would guess he'll get another job...... WcoastO Dec 2015 #99
Yep, for sure. nt Fla Dem Jan 2016 #128
I think it's possible cilla4progress Dec 2015 #101
Interesting ryan_cats Dec 2015 #106
Doing what at a Trump rally? Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2015 #117
I ryan_cats Dec 2015 #122
Huh? matt819 Jan 2016 #133
Reading ryan_cats Jan 2016 #134
He'll have a cushy job as an Infowars correspondent. Initech Dec 2015 #107
Are we sure his name isn't Cleetus ? ValasHune Dec 2015 #110
Hard to say who he truly supports, although we can make some good guesses. lark Dec 2015 #111
This would be a better story if Dr. Xavier Dec 2015 #113
Rollin' Coal ain't gonna be easy when your trying to do it on your bicycle. Hoppy Dec 2015 #115
why lookee here it's skeeter saturnsring Dec 2015 #119
I know of a job opening! SA Zoo Primate Area, as part of the act. Eleanors38 Dec 2015 #121
While I enjoy watching a racist asshole get taken down a peg LiberalLovinLug Dec 2015 #123
Mr. Pisone was not under any direct saltpoint Jan 2016 #126
Props for the employer. Hoyt Jan 2016 #127
Too bad Mr Pisone is not rich JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2016 #129
The truly absurd part of this matt819 Jan 2016 #132
I would like to point out that nobody ASKED the company to fire this hate-filled, ugly- niyad Jan 2016 #135
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