General Discussion

cali

(114,904 posts) Sun Jan 3, 2016, 12:45 PM Jan 2016

165

There are not 200 armed men holding that building. There are no more than 15 [View all]

according to multiple accounts from reporters at the scene. Using force to evict them is idiotic. Simply cut power, communications and water. They'll be out of there in a few short days. Then prosecute them to the full extent of the law.

Escalating the situation would serve no positive resolution; only endanger the lives of law enforcement and potentially create martyrs and help these fuckwads.

At this point, these assholes are endangering no one. They don't have hostages.

Personally, I think they're hoping for a confrontation initiated by law enforcement. They obviously are seeking the spotlight. Deny them both.

I've been unpleasantly surprised by the calls here for escalation and violent confrontation to a situation that poses no threat and is obviously counterproductive.

And no, saying this doesn't make me a right wing terrorist sympathizer. It simply reflects my belief that violence is rarely the answer.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/01/militia_continue_occupation_of.html

263 replies

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There are not 200 armed men holding that building. There are no more than 15 [View all] cali Jan 2016 OP

Spot on cali, spot on. GGJohn Jan 2016 #1

Gunners protecting gunners. These are the same racist gun yahoos who drew down Hoyt Jan 2016 #33

And if they refuse to walk out after 2 hours Hoyt? GGJohn Jan 2016 #37

Well GG, what was it you said you did when you got a mission? Surely, there are some more folks Hoyt Jan 2016 #58

Well Hoyt, I was in, you know, an actual war, something you probably know nothing about. GGJohn Jan 2016 #61

You chose to be, and were gung ho about it. But, I agree that was a long time ago. Hoyt Jan 2016 #69

Then we are in agreement. eom. GGJohn Jan 2016 #71

this area in summer is atrociously hot. cut off water and it would take longer now but they would ca roguevalley Jan 2016 #203

Cut the electricity and the well stops pumping. eom. GGJohn Jan 2016 #204

"Give them two hours..." I go along with Cali, instead. Eleanors38 Jan 2016 #136

Do terrorists get/deserve trials? I basically agree with you, but do find it interesting how the Hoyt Jan 2016 #141

You try to make this into a gun/no gun DU argument and you fail spectacularly. NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #152

Post removed Post removed Jan 2016 #176

What a bald faced lie. GGJohn Jan 2016 #182

Yes. Eleanors38 Jan 2016 #161

A non violent (somewhat) eviction method would be to roomtomove Jan 2016 #245

Why am I not surprised RandySF Jan 2016 #183

Bullshit!! GGJohn Jan 2016 #184

Good on you. pangaia Jan 2016 #193

With some here, it'a always about race, GGJohn Jan 2016 #196

yeah sure heaven05 Jan 2016 #213

Whatever dude. GGJohn Jan 2016 #214

yeah, sure heaven05 Jan 2016 #212

So you're for more violence and killing? GGJohn Jan 2016 #215

you're welcome heaven05 Jan 2016 #239

"Their place" should be obscurity. n/t Beartracks Jan 2016 #227

Don't need to do anything violent, just lock them in there and ensure they don't leave snooper2 Jan 2016 #249

Yup, sooner or later, there will be dissent among the "troops". eom. GGJohn Jan 2016 #251

My first thought was "Fuck the bastards" but saner thoughts came next. You're right. We don't.. BlueJazz Jan 2016 #2

They are not holed up in a single building passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #117

Ah...I see. I though there was a rather quick solution to this scenario. Now I know the facts,.. BlueJazz Jan 2016 #148

Bring the troops? GGJohn Jan 2016 #150

Yes. Exactly. Exactly what would happen if it were the Black Tigers (or whatever) and they had the BlueJazz Jan 2016 #164

So murder is your thing? GGJohn Jan 2016 #168

I disagree. Most people don't put themselves in a situation such as that. BlueJazz Jan 2016 #174

I am glad that someone in your present emotional state is not be making the decisions. pangaia Jan 2016 #195

Seems like we've tried everything else with the people that continue to vote us into the dirt. BlueJazz Jan 2016 #198

Learning from past experiences, the longer the standoff occurs, Jim Beard Jan 2016 #171

The higher the chance of public support? GGJohn Jan 2016 #172

Well here's something to consider. Cheviteau Jan 2016 #207

I'm not in favor of violence unless it's a very last resort. GGJohn Jan 2016 #208

Actually it tends to go the other way rpannier Jan 2016 #229

What do you suppose the reaction would have been if Stonepounder Jan 2016 #222

it's pretty fucking cold there, just use fire trucks and hoses LOL snooper2 Jan 2016 #250

Possibly the Use of Teargas??? Herman4747 Jan 2016 #254

Sure, that sounds reasonable. BlueJazz Jan 2016 #263

Agreed and well said GummyBearz Jan 2016 #3

Bundy thinks he's Robin Hood, so does his merry band of men. HereSince1628 Jan 2016 #4

you can turn um inside out and wear them another week. KentuckyWoman Jan 2016 #7

Now that was funny! ljm2002 Jan 2016 #90

"Okay men... form up! It's time to change underwear!" cherokeeprogressive Jan 2016 #113

I believe they are trying to provoke an armed confrontation The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2016 #5

I know it sounds like it passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #119

Thank you. You are sane. oldandhappy Jan 2016 #6

I am amazed at the bloodlust I have seen on this board. demmiblue Jan 2016 #8

They're insulting the rule of law and the civility of our society. Anger isn't surprising. Bucky Jan 2016 #242

I agree with the call for non-violence. Aristus Jan 2016 #9

"cut power, communications and water" jberryhill Jan 2016 #10

I think wells have electric pumps. cali Jan 2016 #11

Have you done much winter camping? jberryhill Jan 2016 #15

If there's snow they can use that. But they'll need food eventually The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2016 #18

There are ample fresh water supplies jberryhill Jan 2016 #19

I tried winter camping once and hated it, but The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2016 #23

One deer can feed a lot of folks jberryhill Jan 2016 #44

Ineed. nt 2naSalit Jan 2016 #83

Not if the cops don't let them leave the building. The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2016 #121

The issue might be water that's actually in liquid form. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2016 #56

I would expect a remote HQ to have a propane tank jberryhill Jan 2016 #79

It's not just a small stone cabin passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #127

Propane tanks have to be hooked up to something. davsand Jan 2016 #173

You can't run a generator indoors Travis_0004 Jan 2016 #181

Odds are these guys are also preppers hack89 Jan 2016 #38

I've been winter camping in northern Vermont. cali Jan 2016 #30

How does it sound that way jberryhill Jan 2016 #46

You are forgetting something important rjsquirrel Jan 2016 #70

Are they gonna be able to pump donuts and cheese doodles out of those wells? Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #186

It almost seems as though some want a repeat of Waco, Nye Bevan Jan 2016 #12

Yep. Barricade the roads so they can't run a get any food. Put in a cellphone jammer and LiberalArkie Jan 2016 #13

"so they can't run a get any food" jberryhill Jan 2016 #21

Never can tell. People will pack some food for a certain stay and go through it pretty quick. LiberalArkie Jan 2016 #22

How will they run out of water? jberryhill Jan 2016 #47

They're not? XemaSab Jan 2016 #72

Is that like White Sands? jberryhill Jan 2016 #77

That's going to be really dry snow XemaSab Jan 2016 #84

I would expect there is a sizeable water supply jberryhill Jan 2016 #94

Regardless of what you may think, Eastern Oregon is a desert. Maedhros Jan 2016 #165

There is apparently a large pond on the property jberryhill Jan 2016 #170

There are, indeed, ponds in the desert. Maedhros Jan 2016 #175

There do seem to be facilities they can draw upon starroute Jan 2016 #62

I would assume the entrances are covered by law enforcement. Gore1FL Jan 2016 #105

Good, the authorities can add poaching to the charges. nt dflprincess Jan 2016 #202

totally agree...especially this part... dhill926 Jan 2016 #14

Has this thread been alerted yet? Mika Jan 2016 #16

I wonder if the people who are calling for murdering the idiots in the building understand terrorism NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #17

+1 cali Jan 2016 #32

Agree!!! K&R!!! n/t RKP5637 Jan 2016 #85

^^^. Eleanors38 Jan 2016 #140

Not suprisingly, that happened in the past. Lancero Jan 2016 #218

Law enforcement now has drones with tazers Lorien Jan 2016 #231

Um, we attacked Iraq first Lorien Jan 2016 #232

Read up on Waco and Ruby Ridge. jeff47 Jan 2016 #258

Let them continue to advertise their ignorance JEB Jan 2016 #20

agreed...the calls to violence here are appalling. MindPilot Jan 2016 #24

The better way to treat these idiots is with total humiliation. avebury Jan 2016 #102

Just tow their autos leftyladyfrommo Jan 2016 #125

LOL--I kind of love your idea to rename it as a prison and let them sit there ad infinitum renate Jan 2016 #132

Yeah, it is both a funny & effective idea... Herman4747 Jan 2016 #255

wow, that's a very good point (I'm impressed!). but I wonder... renate Jan 2016 #262

Best idea ever. Just post some guards and they can start serving their time in captivity. The Wielding Truth Jan 2016 #180

And doing nothing will encorage them to do much worse Lorien Jan 2016 #233

They let them go after the Bundy Ranch episode. dogman Jan 2016 #25

Was thinking the same thing. These incidents are like dog whistles on DU LittleBlue Jan 2016 #26

You are level headed. Escalation is what evil people want PufPuf23 Jan 2016 #27

Or... treat them the same why non white Americans get treated? uponit7771 Jan 2016 #28

Why? Do you think that's good? Oh, and Ruby Ridge ring a bell? cali Jan 2016 #34

Which is the correct way to treat people? NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #48

Trump would kill their relatives, world wide wally Jan 2016 #29

Freeze them out. Arrest them when they come out. Throw the book at them. hobbit709 Jan 2016 #31

That will be the plan. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2016 #52

Interesting that you mention FREEZE them out Herman4747 Jan 2016 #256

Shemya Island is currently not being used for much of anything. hobbit709 Jan 2016 #257

I'll bet every one of those idiots blames Tamir Rice for his death Gormy Cuss Jan 2016 #35

Yep Recursion Jan 2016 #36

Good post, I agree davekriss Jan 2016 #39

So, about twice the number that shot up Paris. tabasco Jan 2016 #40

From CNN - Plan is to wait them out Tab Jan 2016 #41

Except that none charged some of these same idiots nadinbrzezinski Jan 2016 #42

I am white. And I was just saying to my wife... retrowire Jan 2016 #50

Colonialism nadinbrzezinski Jan 2016 #53

Eric the Folder has moved on. GeorgeGist Jan 2016 #199

This did not even go all the way to the AG nadinbrzezinski Jan 2016 #220

They'll have to go back to work when their PTO runs out. ileus Jan 2016 #43

I see a double edged sword here... retrowire Jan 2016 #45

"I've been unpleasantly surprised by the calls here for escalation and violent confrontation" Lizzie Poppet Jan 2016 #49

I wonder how ignoring them would work? gwheezie Jan 2016 #51

My first response was shut off the electric and water. davsand Jan 2016 #54

Violence may not be the answer Bettie Jan 2016 #55

Who here is saying that they should be patted on the head and told they're GGJohn Jan 2016 #59

There's all this hand wringing about Bettie Jan 2016 #63

No, nobody is saying they should just be left alone, GGJohn Jan 2016 #66

I suggested a tourist attraction gwheezie Jan 2016 #73

I like it, and the Feds can charge a fee for the entertainment of watching these RW assholes GGJohn Jan 2016 #76

Send in the drones passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #142

I'm not sure if they're delivering by drone yet. eom. GGJohn Jan 2016 #143

that was a joke John eom passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #145

Sorry, my age is creeping, actually, roaring up on me, GGJohn Jan 2016 #149

I've not said that there should be bloodshed Bettie Jan 2016 #75

Ummm, wrong, GGJohn Jan 2016 #78

If they are charged, they might go to prison Bettie Jan 2016 #80

Of course they're going to be charged, GGJohn Jan 2016 #82

You are a funny guy Bettie Jan 2016 #86

Ok, then when they're arrested, and they will be, charged and convicted, GGJohn Jan 2016 #88

Sure, if I'm wrong, I'll be Bettie Jan 2016 #96

Absolutely. GGJohn Jan 2016 #106

What we need are a few generals like U.S. Grant who know KingCharlemagne Jan 2016 #163

Yep, just isolate them, no food, no water in, no supporters, no comms, no internet, GGJohn Jan 2016 #167

Should we murder people in this situation, or should we not? NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #100

I have said over and over Bettie Jan 2016 #104

I think they will be charged this time. NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #109

We'll see Bettie Jan 2016 #120

Why do you say that? NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #124

The wrong solution would be to shoot them when no one else is at risk. pnwmom Jan 2016 #226

Shooting them may indeed be the wrong solution Bettie Jan 2016 #241

Exactly. Thi roll over and take it bullshit Lorien Jan 2016 #234

And blaring the Barney Song at them on endless repeat. n/t eggplant Jan 2016 #57

Hey FailureToCommunicate Jan 2016 #97

It does. (shudder) eggplant Jan 2016 #99

Yikes! But hard to believe THIS one didn't make the list... FailureToCommunicate Jan 2016 #103

Not the Barney song. Blast rap music as that will get under their skin. Some N.W.A. for example. LonePirate Jan 2016 #101

I kinda like 'oh my goodness' gwheezie Jan 2016 #107

Muskrat Love. Over and over, 24/7. Demit Jan 2016 #118

Wildfire. SMC22307 Jan 2016 #189

I'd mix in some industrial, too: kentauros Jan 2016 #190

Why would the oligarchy's media ignore them? They want the white, male, and heavily armed rage valerief Jan 2016 #60

The occupation just began. It will take time for national news crews to get there. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2016 #68

The story is on NBC, ABC, CNN, FOX, etc. NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #111

Yep, they're getting what they want. nt valerief Jan 2016 #112

I know I know The Jungle 1 Jan 2016 #64

A major terrorist occupation of a United States government building? GGJohn Jan 2016 #74

Soon they'll look like Jack Nicholson sitting in the snow Gman Jan 2016 #65

OH OH OH better Idea The Jungle 1 Jan 2016 #67

By their act, these men have decided that violence is their method of choice. Agnosticsherbet Jan 2016 #81

You are correct... ljm2002 Jan 2016 #87

Agree! Provoking violence will accomplish nothing but more violence down the road! RKP5637 Jan 2016 #89

Yep, cut all utilities. Helen Borg Jan 2016 #91

Although, not all of these are actually occupying the building, it's more than 15 terrorists Hoyt Jan 2016 #92

This is not the militarized group that is in the Wildlife Refuge passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #155

Plz, people, this is how you get them out. griloco Jan 2016 #93

The Feds should just cut off all the utilities to the building, avebury Jan 2016 #95

since they are 'sovereign' can we just send them to Guantanamo when they give up? JCMach1 Jan 2016 #98

Agree 100% nt Quixote1818 Jan 2016 #108

Thank you cali JackInGreen Jan 2016 #110

Shoot the hostage. Take him out of the equation. Orrex Jan 2016 #114

Seize their bank accounts under RICO. It is undoubtedly and admittedly organized crime. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2016 #115

And I do like another's suggestion of sending olestra AllyCat Jan 2016 #116

Nah. Haribo Sugar Free Gummy Bears. NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #185

OMG! Laughing so hard my family came to check on me to see why I was crying! AllyCat Jan 2016 #192

Yeah, I damn near fell out of my chair a few times reading those. NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #201

Starve 'em Out ProfessorGAC Jan 2016 #122

Agree 100% SickOfTheOnePct Jan 2016 #123

turn off electric, gas and water, gas them and arrest and send them to Somalia larkrake Jan 2016 #126

The problem with that is the physical location. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2016 #157

Build a fence around the place and call it prison. JoePhilly Jan 2016 #128

They plan on bringing children in today MissB Jan 2016 #129

That should be easy to thwart cali Jan 2016 #131

I'm rather hoping so. MissB Jan 2016 #133

Child endangerment avebury Jan 2016 #137

kick Liberal_in_LA Jan 2016 #130

K&R nt Live and Learn Jan 2016 #134

they should be tried in military court as insurrectionists larkrake Jan 2016 #135

Even an insurrection would be tried in normal court. NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #138

they claim to be militias, hense, military larkrake Jan 2016 #144

LOL. NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #147

yes, if so deluded. Seizing a federal building allows for Gitmo, fed prison or Rivendale larkrake Jan 2016 #153

No one is saying they shouldn't be punished and imprisoned. NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #156

Perhaps you are correct, I wish the Supremes had the case larkrake Jan 2016 #158

They first need to be tried by a regular federal court nadinbrzezinski Jan 2016 #160

Why? cali Jan 2016 #146

I think for fun they should set off loud fireworks outside the building Quixote1818 Jan 2016 #139

Have Donald Trump build a wall around the whole area and just leave them there. phleshdef Jan 2016 #151

... YvonneCa Jan 2016 #166

oh, siege yes, but also sic the IRS on their asses. send them to somalia if they hate govt so much. pansypoo53219 Jan 2016 #154

Just block ingress. Yawn. Wait. Arrest. DirkGently Jan 2016 #159

Agreed. Just shut off their supply routes. JDPriestly Jan 2016 #162

I agree, cali. They're not a threat so we can afford to be smarter than they are. n/t pnwmom Jan 2016 #169

I can not believe all I have been reading here Jim Beard Jan 2016 #177

This is a different situation then Waco Kaleva Jan 2016 #187

#Y'allQaeda #Yokel Haram #YeeHawd & Vanilla ISIS underpants Jan 2016 #178

Oregon sheriff says the group occupying a national wildlife refuge came to town under false pretense Jim Beard Jan 2016 #179

In 1969 Native American activists occupied Alcatraz Island kiva Jan 2016 #188

Work Monday? rockodman Jan 2016 #191

You're right! Hopefully they will prosecute them this time! DrewFlorida Jan 2016 #194

Leave those guys locked in there together ... Kablooie Jan 2016 #197

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jan 2016 #200

Here's What The Government Should Do... chwaliszewski Jan 2016 #205

How about a steady barrage of tear gas? Hulk Jan 2016 #206

Chances are very good that they're ready for this with gas masks. eom. GGJohn Jan 2016 #211

True; but it gets damn hard to eat and drink through a mask Hulk Jan 2016 #217

Would you prefer milk and cookies? Lorien Jan 2016 #236

Would you prefer death and destruction? eom. GGJohn Jan 2016 #237

Good Point. Just like an armed terrorist could come into... Herman4747 Jan 2016 #260

I was thinking about those new "nonlethal crowd control" weapons Bucky Jan 2016 #244

Good idea. kacekwl Jan 2016 #209

They want a Ruby Ridge or Waco. artislife Jan 2016 #210

Following the insurrection by the domestic terrorists. nt silvershadow Jan 2016 #216

Tell that to the mother of Tamir Rice MadCrow Jan 2016 #219

And these terrorists are threatening violence if they aren't Lorien Jan 2016 #235

Yep. They want martyrdom, they want publicity, senz Jan 2016 #221

I agree... wait them out. JohnnyRingo Jan 2016 #223

They think they are serious, Twitter seems to think they are comedic clowns. Ridicule they got. L. Coyote Jan 2016 #224

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. AtheistCrusader Jan 2016 #225

You're right on this one, for sure. PatrickforO Jan 2016 #228

I agree with you violence is not called for davidpdx Jan 2016 #230

Agreed, you are absolutely 100% correct! RR2 Jan 2016 #238

Let them have it, fence it off, name it New Somalia.... Bonhomme Richard Jan 2016 #240

hmmm rtracey Jan 2016 #243

when you break the law and are ARMED the race of the NoMoreRepugs Jan 2016 #246

Don't cut the water WhoIsNumberNone Jan 2016 #247

"cut power, communications and water" left-of-center2012 Jan 2016 #248

That wildlife area hosts migratory waterfowl in the spring and fall but right now you have a ... Botany Jan 2016 #252

No, their claim is 200. How they got to that number is telling. ChairmanAgnostic Jan 2016 #253

I'm not one to trust "reporters"! atreides1 Jan 2016 #259

Simply cut power, communications and water. AlbertCat Jan 2016 #261