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The Velveteen Ocelot

(130,393 posts)

5. I believe they are trying to provoke an armed confrontation

Sun Jan 3, 2016, 12:54 PM

Jan 2016

which would be the worst possible result. Some people are calling for an armed attack on the building because that's what would be done if it were occupied by, say, BLM - justifying a violent response by law enforcement by citing previous but wrong violent responses. These goons deserve to be arrested and prosecuted, but the most sensible way of arresting them is by cutting off the building's utilities and communications, surrounding the place, and waiting until they get cold and hungry enough to surrender. These aren't tough Special Forces guys; they're sad little soldier wannabes who'll cave when they run out of beer and pizza. The dumbest possible thing to do would be to storm the place with a SWAT team and make martyrs out of these bozos.

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There are not 200 armed men holding that building. There are no more than 15 [View all] cali Jan 2016 OP

Spot on cali, spot on. GGJohn Jan 2016 #1

Gunners protecting gunners. These are the same racist gun yahoos who drew down Hoyt Jan 2016 #33

And if they refuse to walk out after 2 hours Hoyt? GGJohn Jan 2016 #37

Well GG, what was it you said you did when you got a mission? Surely, there are some more folks Hoyt Jan 2016 #58

Well Hoyt, I was in, you know, an actual war, something you probably know nothing about. GGJohn Jan 2016 #61

You chose to be, and were gung ho about it. But, I agree that was a long time ago. Hoyt Jan 2016 #69

Then we are in agreement. eom. GGJohn Jan 2016 #71

this area in summer is atrociously hot. cut off water and it would take longer now but they would ca roguevalley Jan 2016 #203

Cut the electricity and the well stops pumping. eom. GGJohn Jan 2016 #204

"Give them two hours..." I go along with Cali, instead. Eleanors38 Jan 2016 #136

Do terrorists get/deserve trials? I basically agree with you, but do find it interesting how the Hoyt Jan 2016 #141

You try to make this into a gun/no gun DU argument and you fail spectacularly. NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #152

Post removed Post removed Jan 2016 #176

What a bald faced lie. GGJohn Jan 2016 #182

Yes. Eleanors38 Jan 2016 #161

A non violent (somewhat) eviction method would be to roomtomove Jan 2016 #245

Why am I not surprised RandySF Jan 2016 #183

Bullshit!! GGJohn Jan 2016 #184

Good on you. pangaia Jan 2016 #193

With some here, it'a always about race, GGJohn Jan 2016 #196

yeah sure heaven05 Jan 2016 #213

Whatever dude. GGJohn Jan 2016 #214

yeah, sure heaven05 Jan 2016 #212

So you're for more violence and killing? GGJohn Jan 2016 #215

you're welcome heaven05 Jan 2016 #239

"Their place" should be obscurity. n/t Beartracks Jan 2016 #227

Don't need to do anything violent, just lock them in there and ensure they don't leave snooper2 Jan 2016 #249

Yup, sooner or later, there will be dissent among the "troops". eom. GGJohn Jan 2016 #251

My first thought was "Fuck the bastards" but saner thoughts came next. You're right. We don't.. BlueJazz Jan 2016 #2

They are not holed up in a single building passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #117

Ah...I see. I though there was a rather quick solution to this scenario. Now I know the facts,.. BlueJazz Jan 2016 #148

Bring the troops? GGJohn Jan 2016 #150

Yes. Exactly. Exactly what would happen if it were the Black Tigers (or whatever) and they had the BlueJazz Jan 2016 #164

So murder is your thing? GGJohn Jan 2016 #168

I disagree. Most people don't put themselves in a situation such as that. BlueJazz Jan 2016 #174

I am glad that someone in your present emotional state is not be making the decisions. pangaia Jan 2016 #195

Seems like we've tried everything else with the people that continue to vote us into the dirt. BlueJazz Jan 2016 #198

Learning from past experiences, the longer the standoff occurs, Jim Beard Jan 2016 #171

The higher the chance of public support? GGJohn Jan 2016 #172

Well here's something to consider. Cheviteau Jan 2016 #207

I'm not in favor of violence unless it's a very last resort. GGJohn Jan 2016 #208

Actually it tends to go the other way rpannier Jan 2016 #229

What do you suppose the reaction would have been if Stonepounder Jan 2016 #222

it's pretty fucking cold there, just use fire trucks and hoses LOL snooper2 Jan 2016 #250

Possibly the Use of Teargas??? Herman4747 Jan 2016 #254

Sure, that sounds reasonable. BlueJazz Jan 2016 #263

Agreed and well said GummyBearz Jan 2016 #3

Bundy thinks he's Robin Hood, so does his merry band of men. HereSince1628 Jan 2016 #4

you can turn um inside out and wear them another week. KentuckyWoman Jan 2016 #7

Now that was funny! ljm2002 Jan 2016 #90

"Okay men... form up! It's time to change underwear!" cherokeeprogressive Jan 2016 #113

I believe they are trying to provoke an armed confrontation The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2016 #5

I know it sounds like it passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #119

Thank you. You are sane. oldandhappy Jan 2016 #6

I am amazed at the bloodlust I have seen on this board. demmiblue Jan 2016 #8

They're insulting the rule of law and the civility of our society. Anger isn't surprising. Bucky Jan 2016 #242

I agree with the call for non-violence. Aristus Jan 2016 #9

"cut power, communications and water" jberryhill Jan 2016 #10

I think wells have electric pumps. cali Jan 2016 #11

Have you done much winter camping? jberryhill Jan 2016 #15

If there's snow they can use that. But they'll need food eventually The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2016 #18

There are ample fresh water supplies jberryhill Jan 2016 #19

I tried winter camping once and hated it, but The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2016 #23

One deer can feed a lot of folks jberryhill Jan 2016 #44

Ineed. nt 2naSalit Jan 2016 #83

Not if the cops don't let them leave the building. The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2016 #121

The issue might be water that's actually in liquid form. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2016 #56

I would expect a remote HQ to have a propane tank jberryhill Jan 2016 #79

It's not just a small stone cabin passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #127

Propane tanks have to be hooked up to something. davsand Jan 2016 #173

You can't run a generator indoors Travis_0004 Jan 2016 #181

Odds are these guys are also preppers hack89 Jan 2016 #38

I've been winter camping in northern Vermont. cali Jan 2016 #30

How does it sound that way jberryhill Jan 2016 #46

You are forgetting something important rjsquirrel Jan 2016 #70

Are they gonna be able to pump donuts and cheese doodles out of those wells? Warren DeMontague Jan 2016 #186

It almost seems as though some want a repeat of Waco, Nye Bevan Jan 2016 #12

Yep. Barricade the roads so they can't run a get any food. Put in a cellphone jammer and LiberalArkie Jan 2016 #13

"so they can't run a get any food" jberryhill Jan 2016 #21

Never can tell. People will pack some food for a certain stay and go through it pretty quick. LiberalArkie Jan 2016 #22

How will they run out of water? jberryhill Jan 2016 #47

They're not? XemaSab Jan 2016 #72

Is that like White Sands? jberryhill Jan 2016 #77

That's going to be really dry snow XemaSab Jan 2016 #84

I would expect there is a sizeable water supply jberryhill Jan 2016 #94

Regardless of what you may think, Eastern Oregon is a desert. Maedhros Jan 2016 #165

There is apparently a large pond on the property jberryhill Jan 2016 #170

There are, indeed, ponds in the desert. Maedhros Jan 2016 #175

There do seem to be facilities they can draw upon starroute Jan 2016 #62

I would assume the entrances are covered by law enforcement. Gore1FL Jan 2016 #105

Good, the authorities can add poaching to the charges. nt dflprincess Jan 2016 #202

totally agree...especially this part... dhill926 Jan 2016 #14

Has this thread been alerted yet? Mika Jan 2016 #16

I wonder if the people who are calling for murdering the idiots in the building understand terrorism NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #17

+1 cali Jan 2016 #32

Agree!!! K&R!!! n/t RKP5637 Jan 2016 #85

^^^. Eleanors38 Jan 2016 #140

Not suprisingly, that happened in the past. Lancero Jan 2016 #218

Law enforcement now has drones with tazers Lorien Jan 2016 #231

Um, we attacked Iraq first Lorien Jan 2016 #232

Read up on Waco and Ruby Ridge. jeff47 Jan 2016 #258

Let them continue to advertise their ignorance JEB Jan 2016 #20

agreed...the calls to violence here are appalling. MindPilot Jan 2016 #24

The better way to treat these idiots is with total humiliation. avebury Jan 2016 #102

Just tow their autos leftyladyfrommo Jan 2016 #125

LOL--I kind of love your idea to rename it as a prison and let them sit there ad infinitum renate Jan 2016 #132

Yeah, it is both a funny & effective idea... Herman4747 Jan 2016 #255

wow, that's a very good point (I'm impressed!). but I wonder... renate Jan 2016 #262

Best idea ever. Just post some guards and they can start serving their time in captivity. The Wielding Truth Jan 2016 #180

And doing nothing will encorage them to do much worse Lorien Jan 2016 #233

They let them go after the Bundy Ranch episode. dogman Jan 2016 #25

Was thinking the same thing. These incidents are like dog whistles on DU LittleBlue Jan 2016 #26

You are level headed. Escalation is what evil people want PufPuf23 Jan 2016 #27

Or... treat them the same why non white Americans get treated? uponit7771 Jan 2016 #28

Why? Do you think that's good? Oh, and Ruby Ridge ring a bell? cali Jan 2016 #34

Which is the correct way to treat people? NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #48

Trump would kill their relatives, world wide wally Jan 2016 #29

Freeze them out. Arrest them when they come out. Throw the book at them. hobbit709 Jan 2016 #31

That will be the plan. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2016 #52

Interesting that you mention FREEZE them out Herman4747 Jan 2016 #256

Shemya Island is currently not being used for much of anything. hobbit709 Jan 2016 #257

I'll bet every one of those idiots blames Tamir Rice for his death Gormy Cuss Jan 2016 #35

Yep Recursion Jan 2016 #36

Good post, I agree davekriss Jan 2016 #39

So, about twice the number that shot up Paris. tabasco Jan 2016 #40

From CNN - Plan is to wait them out Tab Jan 2016 #41

Except that none charged some of these same idiots nadinbrzezinski Jan 2016 #42

I am white. And I was just saying to my wife... retrowire Jan 2016 #50

Colonialism nadinbrzezinski Jan 2016 #53

Eric the Folder has moved on. GeorgeGist Jan 2016 #199

This did not even go all the way to the AG nadinbrzezinski Jan 2016 #220

They'll have to go back to work when their PTO runs out. ileus Jan 2016 #43

I see a double edged sword here... retrowire Jan 2016 #45

"I've been unpleasantly surprised by the calls here for escalation and violent confrontation" Lizzie Poppet Jan 2016 #49

I wonder how ignoring them would work? gwheezie Jan 2016 #51

My first response was shut off the electric and water. davsand Jan 2016 #54

Violence may not be the answer Bettie Jan 2016 #55

Who here is saying that they should be patted on the head and told they're GGJohn Jan 2016 #59

There's all this hand wringing about Bettie Jan 2016 #63

No, nobody is saying they should just be left alone, GGJohn Jan 2016 #66

I suggested a tourist attraction gwheezie Jan 2016 #73

I like it, and the Feds can charge a fee for the entertainment of watching these RW assholes GGJohn Jan 2016 #76

Send in the drones passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #142

I'm not sure if they're delivering by drone yet. eom. GGJohn Jan 2016 #143

that was a joke John eom passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #145

Sorry, my age is creeping, actually, roaring up on me, GGJohn Jan 2016 #149

I've not said that there should be bloodshed Bettie Jan 2016 #75

Ummm, wrong, GGJohn Jan 2016 #78

If they are charged, they might go to prison Bettie Jan 2016 #80

Of course they're going to be charged, GGJohn Jan 2016 #82

You are a funny guy Bettie Jan 2016 #86

Ok, then when they're arrested, and they will be, charged and convicted, GGJohn Jan 2016 #88

Sure, if I'm wrong, I'll be Bettie Jan 2016 #96

Absolutely. GGJohn Jan 2016 #106

What we need are a few generals like U.S. Grant who know KingCharlemagne Jan 2016 #163

Yep, just isolate them, no food, no water in, no supporters, no comms, no internet, GGJohn Jan 2016 #167

Should we murder people in this situation, or should we not? NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #100

I have said over and over Bettie Jan 2016 #104

I think they will be charged this time. NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #109

We'll see Bettie Jan 2016 #120

Why do you say that? NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #124

The wrong solution would be to shoot them when no one else is at risk. pnwmom Jan 2016 #226

Shooting them may indeed be the wrong solution Bettie Jan 2016 #241

Exactly. Thi roll over and take it bullshit Lorien Jan 2016 #234

And blaring the Barney Song at them on endless repeat. n/t eggplant Jan 2016 #57

Hey FailureToCommunicate Jan 2016 #97

It does. (shudder) eggplant Jan 2016 #99

Yikes! But hard to believe THIS one didn't make the list... FailureToCommunicate Jan 2016 #103

Not the Barney song. Blast rap music as that will get under their skin. Some N.W.A. for example. LonePirate Jan 2016 #101

I kinda like 'oh my goodness' gwheezie Jan 2016 #107

Muskrat Love. Over and over, 24/7. Demit Jan 2016 #118

Wildfire. SMC22307 Jan 2016 #189

I'd mix in some industrial, too: kentauros Jan 2016 #190

Why would the oligarchy's media ignore them? They want the white, male, and heavily armed rage valerief Jan 2016 #60

The occupation just began. It will take time for national news crews to get there. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2016 #68

The story is on NBC, ABC, CNN, FOX, etc. NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #111

Yep, they're getting what they want. nt valerief Jan 2016 #112

I know I know The Jungle 1 Jan 2016 #64

A major terrorist occupation of a United States government building? GGJohn Jan 2016 #74

Soon they'll look like Jack Nicholson sitting in the snow Gman Jan 2016 #65

OH OH OH better Idea The Jungle 1 Jan 2016 #67

By their act, these men have decided that violence is their method of choice. Agnosticsherbet Jan 2016 #81

You are correct... ljm2002 Jan 2016 #87

Agree! Provoking violence will accomplish nothing but more violence down the road! RKP5637 Jan 2016 #89

Yep, cut all utilities. Helen Borg Jan 2016 #91

Although, not all of these are actually occupying the building, it's more than 15 terrorists Hoyt Jan 2016 #92

This is not the militarized group that is in the Wildlife Refuge passiveporcupine Jan 2016 #155

Plz, people, this is how you get them out. griloco Jan 2016 #93

The Feds should just cut off all the utilities to the building, avebury Jan 2016 #95

since they are 'sovereign' can we just send them to Guantanamo when they give up? JCMach1 Jan 2016 #98

Agree 100% nt Quixote1818 Jan 2016 #108

Thank you cali JackInGreen Jan 2016 #110

Shoot the hostage. Take him out of the equation. Orrex Jan 2016 #114

Seize their bank accounts under RICO. It is undoubtedly and admittedly organized crime. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2016 #115

And I do like another's suggestion of sending olestra AllyCat Jan 2016 #116

Nah. Haribo Sugar Free Gummy Bears. NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #185

OMG! Laughing so hard my family came to check on me to see why I was crying! AllyCat Jan 2016 #192

Yeah, I damn near fell out of my chair a few times reading those. NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #201

Starve 'em Out ProfessorGAC Jan 2016 #122

Agree 100% SickOfTheOnePct Jan 2016 #123

turn off electric, gas and water, gas them and arrest and send them to Somalia larkrake Jan 2016 #126

The problem with that is the physical location. Lizzie Poppet Jan 2016 #157

Build a fence around the place and call it prison. JoePhilly Jan 2016 #128

They plan on bringing children in today MissB Jan 2016 #129

That should be easy to thwart cali Jan 2016 #131

I'm rather hoping so. MissB Jan 2016 #133

Child endangerment avebury Jan 2016 #137

kick Liberal_in_LA Jan 2016 #130

K&R nt Live and Learn Jan 2016 #134

they should be tried in military court as insurrectionists larkrake Jan 2016 #135

Even an insurrection would be tried in normal court. NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #138

they claim to be militias, hense, military larkrake Jan 2016 #144

LOL. NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #147

yes, if so deluded. Seizing a federal building allows for Gitmo, fed prison or Rivendale larkrake Jan 2016 #153

No one is saying they shouldn't be punished and imprisoned. NutmegYankee Jan 2016 #156

Perhaps you are correct, I wish the Supremes had the case larkrake Jan 2016 #158

They first need to be tried by a regular federal court nadinbrzezinski Jan 2016 #160

Why? cali Jan 2016 #146

I think for fun they should set off loud fireworks outside the building Quixote1818 Jan 2016 #139

Have Donald Trump build a wall around the whole area and just leave them there. phleshdef Jan 2016 #151

... YvonneCa Jan 2016 #166

oh, siege yes, but also sic the IRS on their asses. send them to somalia if they hate govt so much. pansypoo53219 Jan 2016 #154

Just block ingress. Yawn. Wait. Arrest. DirkGently Jan 2016 #159

Agreed. Just shut off their supply routes. JDPriestly Jan 2016 #162

I agree, cali. They're not a threat so we can afford to be smarter than they are. n/t pnwmom Jan 2016 #169

I can not believe all I have been reading here Jim Beard Jan 2016 #177

This is a different situation then Waco Kaleva Jan 2016 #187

#Y'allQaeda #Yokel Haram #YeeHawd & Vanilla ISIS underpants Jan 2016 #178

Oregon sheriff says the group occupying a national wildlife refuge came to town under false pretense Jim Beard Jan 2016 #179

In 1969 Native American activists occupied Alcatraz Island kiva Jan 2016 #188

Work Monday? rockodman Jan 2016 #191

You're right! Hopefully they will prosecute them this time! DrewFlorida Jan 2016 #194

Leave those guys locked in there together ... Kablooie Jan 2016 #197

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jan 2016 #200

Here's What The Government Should Do... chwaliszewski Jan 2016 #205

How about a steady barrage of tear gas? Hulk Jan 2016 #206

Chances are very good that they're ready for this with gas masks. eom. GGJohn Jan 2016 #211

True; but it gets damn hard to eat and drink through a mask Hulk Jan 2016 #217

Would you prefer milk and cookies? Lorien Jan 2016 #236

Would you prefer death and destruction? eom. GGJohn Jan 2016 #237

Good Point. Just like an armed terrorist could come into... Herman4747 Jan 2016 #260

I was thinking about those new "nonlethal crowd control" weapons Bucky Jan 2016 #244

Good idea. kacekwl Jan 2016 #209

They want a Ruby Ridge or Waco. artislife Jan 2016 #210

Following the insurrection by the domestic terrorists. nt silvershadow Jan 2016 #216

Tell that to the mother of Tamir Rice MadCrow Jan 2016 #219

And these terrorists are threatening violence if they aren't Lorien Jan 2016 #235

Yep. They want martyrdom, they want publicity, senz Jan 2016 #221

I agree... wait them out. JohnnyRingo Jan 2016 #223

They think they are serious, Twitter seems to think they are comedic clowns. Ridicule they got. L. Coyote Jan 2016 #224

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. AtheistCrusader Jan 2016 #225

You're right on this one, for sure. PatrickforO Jan 2016 #228

I agree with you violence is not called for davidpdx Jan 2016 #230

Agreed, you are absolutely 100% correct! RR2 Jan 2016 #238

Let them have it, fence it off, name it New Somalia.... Bonhomme Richard Jan 2016 #240

hmmm rtracey Jan 2016 #243

when you break the law and are ARMED the race of the NoMoreRepugs Jan 2016 #246

Don't cut the water WhoIsNumberNone Jan 2016 #247

"cut power, communications and water" left-of-center2012 Jan 2016 #248

That wildlife area hosts migratory waterfowl in the spring and fall but right now you have a ... Botany Jan 2016 #252

No, their claim is 200. How they got to that number is telling. ChairmanAgnostic Jan 2016 #253

I'm not one to trust "reporters"! atreides1 Jan 2016 #259

Simply cut power, communications and water. AlbertCat Jan 2016 #261