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Akamai

(1,779 posts)
17. My suggestion -- Leave it up to the commanders on base or to the relevant laws.
Sat Jan 9, 2016, 12:09 PM
Jan 2016

Snopes has a good history on the matter of the soldier getting his gun and firing back, I think:

http://www.snopes.com/navy-commander-charged/

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Navy Commander to Be Charged for Returning Fire Against Chattanooga Gunman?
Reports that a Navy commander will be brought up on charges for returning fire against the Chattanooga gunman are unconfirmed.
David Mikkelson
David Mikkelson
Aug 2, 2015
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NEWS: Reports that a Navy commander will be brought up on charges for returning fire against the Chattanooga gunman are unconfirmed.


On 1 August 2015, the oft-unreliable web site of conservative commentator Allen B. West published a blog post with the clickbaiting headline "What's happening to this heroic Navy officer from the Chattanooga shooting will make your blood BOIL." That post claimed that
Navy Lt. Cmdr Timothy White, who is believed to have used a personal weapon to return fire against the shooter who killed four Marines and one sailor during a 16 July 2015 attack at Chattanooga-area military facilities, was going to be brought up on charges of illegally discharging a firearm on federal property by the Navy:

That post was largely cribbed from a thinly-sourced Western Journal article that in turn referenced a Navy Times article that discussed the Navy's investigation into the shooting but made no mention of White's being brought up on charges:

A Navy officer and a Marine fired their sidearms hoping to kill or subdue the gunman who murdered five service members last week in Chattanooga, Tennessee, according to multiple military officials familiar with internal reporting on the tragedy.

It remains unclear whether either hit Muhammad Abdulazeez, who was shot and killed on July 16 after he gunned down four Marines and a sailor at the Navy Operational Support Center in Chattanooga. It's also unclear why they were armed, as it is against Defense Department policy for anyone other than military police or law enforcement to carry weapons on federal property.

A report distributed among senior Navy leaders during the shooting's aftermath said Lt. Cmdr. Timothy White, the support center's commanding officer, used his personal firearm to engage Abdulazeez, Navy Times confirmed with four separate sources. A Navy official also confirmed a Washington Post report indicating one of the slain Marines may have been carrying a 9mm Glock and possibly returned fire on the gunman.
West maintained he had "confirmed" via text message that the Navy was bringing charges against White and urged readers to "flood the phones" of the Navy Secretary and the Secretary of Defense to protest that action:

Ladies and gents, resulting from the text message I received yesterday, I can confirm that the United States Navy is bringing charges against Lt. Cmdr Timothy White for illegally discharging a firearm on federal property.

Here's what needs to happen. Flood the phone of SecNav Ray Mabus and SecDef Carter and ask them whose side they're on. Demand the charges being brought against Lt.Cmdr White be immediately dropped. If those charges are not dropped, I will personally lead the charge to have Carter and Mabus removed from their positions.
However, as of 2 August 2015, U.S. Navy representatives responding to Facebook inquiries about the matter have been stating that the incident is still under review and no charges have yet been brought against any Navy personnel:

Stories of Navy personnel being charged with an offense are not true. There is still a long way to go in reviewing the facts of this tragic incident, but at this time we can confirm no service member has been charged with an offense.
The Washington Post noted on 4 August 2015 that Pentagon officials said "criminal charges are unlikely in White's case" and that other disciplinary options were possible:

It's worth noting that the Navy has a variety of options on the table. For one, it could feasibly recognize White for valor, while still taking some administrative action against him less serious than criminal charges.

Those options could include professional counseling or a non-punitive letter of caution. A letter along those lines would not be considered punishment, but rather a formal way of noting a deficiency or professional mistake.
The Department of Defense currently prohibits military personnel from carrying personal weapons while on duty, but that policy could be changing:

U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter said the Pentagon could allow more military personnel to carry arms when stateside as part of an effort to bolster security at military sites following the recent shooting in Tennessee that killed five service members.

In a two-page memo dated July 29, Mr. Carter directed military commanders and civilian leaders to draw up new security plans and procedures for facilities which could be at risk. He said the July 16 shooting in Chattanooga illustrated the vulnerability of military sites and other facilities used by troops while in the country.

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0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

he is right Duckhunter935 Jan 2016 #1
McCrhystal was talking about the bullets themselves -- not the automatic firing capabilities. Akamai Jan 2016 #10
a 5.56 round is not big Duckhunter935 Jan 2016 #14
What are these larger military rounds? JustABozoOnThisBus Jan 2016 #16
You really have no knowledge of military weapons do you? GGJohn Jan 2016 #18
The 5.56mm round the M4 and M16 fire is so SMALL, troops complained in Afghanistan about it NickB79 Jan 2016 #23
Very few military assault rifles are in civilian hands, GGJohn Jan 2016 #2
I see gunners are here correcting nomenclature - - auto vs semiautomatic - as if a semi-auto can't Hoyt Jan 2016 #3
You find it wrong to correct nomenclature? dumbcat Jan 2016 #4
He also claims it's easy to convert a semi to a full auto, GGJohn Jan 2016 #7
the San Bernardino shooters attempted to convert their AR's to full auto Angel Martin Jan 2016 #41
I find deflecting with minor corrections to nomenclature a common tactic. Thor_MN Jan 2016 #11
Of course. It's much better to continue the lies and half truths dumbcat Jan 2016 #13
that is not a minor correction Duckhunter935 Jan 2016 #15
Exactly. As numerous mass shootings demonstrate, semi-autos are plenty lethal Hoyt Jan 2016 #29
Of course, as usual Hoyt, you're wrong. GGJohn Jan 2016 #5
Hoyt TeddyR Jan 2016 #8
Semi-auto are deadly enough. I bet you've checked out what is involved. Here's a trick. Hoyt Jan 2016 #30
That didn't answer my question TeddyR Jan 2016 #34
Yahoos don't need fully automatic weapons to kill a lot of folks, intimidate folks, play Hoyt Jan 2016 #37
Semi-auto vs full auto is not a small quibble NickB79 Jan 2016 #24
Our mass shooters have been effective with semi-auto and yahoos love them. Hoyt Jan 2016 #31
LOL. eom. GGJohn Jan 2016 #32
The policy is in place because guns and ammo ended up at gun shows in the early 90's. X_Digger Jan 2016 #6
McChrystal was focusing on the bullet itself -- see below Akamai Jan 2016 #9
If the argument is meant as an idea towards warding off rampage shooters Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2016 #12
My suggestion -- Leave it up to the commanders on base or to the relevant laws. Akamai Jan 2016 #17
Commanders can add to restrictions but seldom lift restrictions. Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2016 #19
I would let them make the changes they feel they need to make and can lawfully make. Akamai Jan 2016 #21
While what you say is true I don't see it as germane to discussion about regulations Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2016 #25
A real problem is generalizing from single instances -- military leaders are much more likely to be Akamai Jan 2016 #26
While military leaders can and do offer advice on the writing of military regulations Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2016 #27
Memory doesn't serve you accurately in this instance. The regs were written during the preceding Akamai Jan 2016 #36
Another bad Bush policy. Nuclear Unicorn Jan 2016 #39
commanders can not loosen Duckhunter935 Jan 2016 #20
Policies vary from base to base madville Jan 2016 #22
however Duckhunter935 Jan 2016 #28
Glad to see you understand that allowing more gunz loose on base is a LOWER standard. Hoyt Jan 2016 #33
Let's be clear TeddyR Jan 2016 #35
And hardly any guns. You seem to think society here is a war zone. Leave em at home. Hoyt Jan 2016 #38
Did you actually read my post? TeddyR Jan 2016 #40
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