General Discussion

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)

78. Nice try, no cigar...

Mon Jan 18, 2016, 12:24 PM

Jan 2016

...I am quoting your own words about Hillary Clinton, and I agree with a lot of what you said, although I actually think you were more harsh than you needed to be.

Whereas I have stated elsewhere that the one area where I have some concerns about Bernie is on gun control. However, he has addressed most of those concerns, and he has agreed to take a second look at the bill concerning gun manufacturers' liability. Furthermore, I totally get that his opponents get to criticize him on this issue, and unless they do so dishonestly, I will not get on their case for using the issue to their advantage.

Now I would claim that calling Sanders "an NRA-enabling toadie" is dishonest. He lost an early election in Vermont partly because he was against selling assault rifles and would not back down on that position. He has a D- from the NRA -- hardly the record of a "toadie".

Pffft.

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KRUGMAN: "a simple, straightforward single-payer system just isn�t going to happen" [View all] kpete Jan 2016 OP

I understand his point, but he was being far more pessimistic than I expected Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #1

Because Krugman is reality based and reality is on Hillary's side. nt stevenleser Jan 2016 #6

Exactly. And he's right on this issue, as is Clinton. Hoyt Jan 2016 #20

Talking about kludgey 1939 Jan 2016 #41

And when Hillary Care was defeated, it was almost 20 years before anyone would touch it. Hoyt Jan 2016 #44

Because it was a complicated bureaucratic nightmare 1939 Jan 2016 #65

It put control at the local level. Medicare actually isn't that simple because most folks don't get Hoyt Jan 2016 #70

Right to a point 1939 Jan 2016 #140

Exactly one reason I think Medicare for all will be quite expensive. Hoyt Jan 2016 #141

Medicare didn't spring full blown into the program it is today -- which still pnwmom Jan 2016 #137

They are completely wrong. alarimer Jan 2016 #99

If you can get it passed, which is what Clinton and Krugman are saying -- you can't short-term. Hoyt Jan 2016 #102

sorry, you don't get change by pushing for incremental improvements Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #27

That is exactly how you get change in a Democracy. You rarely have the opportunity to do it any stevenleser Jan 2016 #31

Wrong Perogie Jan 2016 #39

Read about how the Social Security program evolved with incremental changes. Hoyt Jan 2016 #50

from a strict point of negotiating though, you start with a big goal Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #94

That is somewhat a simplification. A lot of negotiation goes on in the background. Hoyt Jan 2016 #95

And that is the same line of bullshit the 'civil unions are all that is possible' bigots pushed Bluenorthwest Jan 2016 #69

" the way things are serve them just fine". Or they haven't been burned (yet) by the way things are antigop Jan 2016 #77

Except it did take years and decades for same sex marriage mythology Jan 2016 #115

Tell that to the anti-smoking crowd. JohnnyRingo Jan 2016 #59

i'm glad it's being debated in pres primary. we need to have this debate again and again... tk2kewl Jan 2016 #35

Says the person who had THIS to say in 2008: ljm2002 Jan 2016 #68

So that means we can hold Sanders responsible for his gun positions in 2008 stevenleser Jan 2016 #74

Nice try, no cigar... ljm2002 Jan 2016 #78

That poster is always more harsh than necessary, it's part of his schtick Fumesucker Jan 2016 #139

Except, you leave out the part JesterCS Jan 2016 #138

I agree with his assessment of the political realities. ronnie624 Jan 2016 #79

You're arguments are so silly WhaTHellsgoingonhere Jan 2016 #142

Yeah, I know, whether someone can actually do what they promise is a silly thing to consider. stevenleser Jan 2016 #144

I just explained it all to you WhaTHellsgoingonhere Jan 2016 #145

SO. we try. pangaia Jan 2016 #2

How is that? Squinch Jan 2016 #8

Don't get me wrong, I am not against it. pangaia Jan 2016 #14

To say that it is an absolute disaster for millions is the same as saying you are against it. Squinch Jan 2016 #17

not a disaster kpete Jan 2016 #33

I've seen many of those too. Squinch Jan 2016 #36

Perhaps I exagerated. pangaia Jan 2016 #66

Everyone has a tendency to do that. maxsolomon Jan 2016 #113

Agreed. Obama never wanted a Public Option WhaTHellsgoingonhere Jan 2016 #40

Too hard! tazkcmo Jan 2016 #3

exactly. Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #28

+1000000 SammyWinstonJack Jan 2016 #86

Which is how we got the ACA passed. Next step � public option, then single-payer. brush Jan 2016 #108

I'm ok with that tazkcmo Jan 2016 #120

Agreed. Single payer has to be the final goal brush Jan 2016 #124

Thanks, third way. Ed Suspicious Jan 2016 #4

Krugman is not being honest. Either that, or he's being incredibly naive. merrily Jan 2016 #5

Krugman is being pragmatic and wants to fix things and get things done-like Hillary. riversedge Jan 2016 #10

I find the article completely honest TeddyR Jan 2016 #11

There was zero chance Alexander could defeat Napoleon, also. pangaia Jan 2016 #19

That's a trite response Cosmocat Jan 2016 #88

I see. pangaia Jan 2016 #89

He didn't have a majority of the House and Senate TeddyR Jan 2016 #110

That is absolutely true. pangaia Jan 2016 #112

I don't think he's being honest about the issue as a whole, including his description of the past. merrily Jan 2016 #22

If the dems could finally get a mid-term right - that would be a game changer lame54 Jan 2016 #7

Not until the redistricting issue is solved. Which would require massive state level Democratic stevenleser Jan 2016 #12

I hear you-- we don't have much chance until the new census Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #29

I fully expect a President Sanders to spend the first 2 years of his first term Volaris Jan 2016 #18

That is exactly what he did as mayor of Burlington, I am learning. pangaia Jan 2016 #23

The House is gerrymandered to Republicans JohnnyRingo Jan 2016 #64

So never try and you'll get it one day? mmonk Jan 2016 #9

We were assured that ACA was not going to be the be all and end all, only the beginning. merrily Jan 2016 #25

exactly. Fast Walker 52 Jan 2016 #30

Talk about dishonest (your words upthread). Single Payer isn't going further on the ACA KittyWampus Jan 2016 #56

Talk about dishonest (your words in Reply 56). My post upthread never said anything about merrily Jan 2016 #60

If the Democrats have a candidate who's diminishing the accomplishments of ACA pnwmom Jan 2016 #117

This is massive bullshit. stillwaiting Jan 2016 #13

Nope, you cannot have it until January 2023 at the earliest. stevenleser Jan 2016 #15

If only we had a candidate that could energize more people to the polls Perogie Jan 2016 #42

Being something that 50% of the populace won't vote for excludes you from being that stevenleser Jan 2016 #61

You're right Perogie Jan 2016 #132

This is the correct answer madville Jan 2016 #49

This is why midterms are so important. Beartracks Jan 2016 #129

Of course but this is a marathon, not a sprint Quixote1818 Jan 2016 #103

This message was self-deleted by its author LiberalArkie Jan 2016 #16

Not really 1939 Jan 2016 #46

Never underestimate the value of a deductible expense R.A. Ganoush Jan 2016 #55

Surrender to the kleptocracy. All resistance is futile. Warren Stupidity Jan 2016 #21

It's as if you don't realize there are other options. KittyWampus Jan 2016 #57

There is one sure way to stay with the status quo. onecaliberal Jan 2016 #24

Because I agree with Krugman likely means, once again, I'm not a real liberal Blue_Adept Jan 2016 #26

Bernie made the point last night, none of this will change unless we change campaign finance laws. leftupnorth Jan 2016 #32

Incrementalism. HughBeaumont Jan 2016 #34

Obamacare worked for the very poor and for the very rich (insurance companies) Doctor_J Jan 2016 #37

let's not try to change anything at all because sometimes we might fail Perogie Jan 2016 #38

It's not realistic to expect either candidate to get anything WhaTHellsgoingonhere Jan 2016 #43

Supreme Court nominations madville Jan 2016 #58

I covered that here WhaTHellsgoingonhere Jan 2016 #81

Krugman's right lanlady Jan 2016 #45

If you had asked most pundits a year ago... ljm2002 Jan 2016 #75

Ask yourself whether we get more and better Democrats with Hillary or Bernie as President. stillwaiting Jan 2016 #97

Well just have to leave Krug man behind Rosa Luxemburg Jan 2016 #47

Gladly Proserpina Jan 2016 #63

I think he is just looking at the handwriting on the wall and saying he thinks this is the CTyankee Jan 2016 #118

If Bernie can't get universal care kcjohn1 Jan 2016 #48

I think a President Bernie 1939 Jan 2016 #51

a bridge too far dembotoz Jan 2016 #52

People forget that Obamacare began as single payer. JohnnyRingo Jan 2016 #53

Bernie is promising to work with us. That's what he's promising. stillwaiting Jan 2016 #98

Well good luck then JohnnyRingo Jan 2016 #114

What was it RFK said? mikehiggins Jan 2016 #54

Krugman is handing out 10 lbs of BS in a 2 lb Sack Proserpina Jan 2016 #62

Well Mr. Krugman olddots Jan 2016 #67

this is the sort of truth that makes me want to leave this dump of a country forever. librechik Jan 2016 #71

You think it's all puppy dogs and rainbows somewhere else? stevenleser Jan 2016 #82

When I first visited my son in AU he handed me his Medicare card and said: librechik Jan 2016 #85

no answer? And we could be as functional here in the US if it weren't for hate. librechik Jan 2016 #96

People who say "it can't be done" need to shut up and go away. Avalux Jan 2016 #72

Thanks for your input Paul. elias49 Jan 2016 #73

First we need public option. Then WDIM Jan 2016 #76

Uh-oh, time for the hatred of Paul to begin... joeybee12 Jan 2016 #80

In other words, decide you are going to lose before negotiations even begin, Zorra Jan 2016 #83

Again with the fear meme Orrex Jan 2016 #92

Single-payer will never happen Matrosov Jan 2016 #84

When Krugman agrees with Sanders, he's a genius Orrex Jan 2016 #87

I think our best hope would be to get a public option - Vinca Jan 2016 #90

As I've Read & Listened To Krugman For Many Years... ChiciB1 Jan 2016 #91

Mostly status quo now. ozone_man Jan 2016 #93

I Suppose You Could Put It Another Way... ChiciB1 Jan 2016 #106

His statement of the goal is incorrect. The goal is access to healthcare, not health insurance. xocet Jan 2016 #100

Krugman has always portrayed himself as an FDR Democrat. jwirr Jan 2016 #101

Yes, that kind of thing is for other countries. moondust Jan 2016 #104

It's like none of these people have any idea what "Progressive" means. kjones Jan 2016 #105

So, what is Krugman saying, really? Baitball Blogger Jan 2016 #107

Krugman's been pretty incoherent on this issue for a while Chathamization Jan 2016 #109

When I looked at the article on the NY Times website... Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2016 #111

Try again. You missed them. Bottom, right hand side. n/t pnwmom Jan 2016 #116

They were invisible on my phone, but I saw them when I Lydia Leftcoast Jan 2016 #123

The way to get the public option, is to demand something even less palatable to TPTB. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jan 2016 #119

we will never go to the moon SoLeftIAmRight Jan 2016 #121

Krugman, the voice of reason. Beacool Jan 2016 #122

Hey, Kroog. We've all seen the ACA. I think we get that. Orsino Jan 2016 #125

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Jan 2016 #126

We will have single-payer when our population is more manageable. randome Jan 2016 #127

He's not reading. zipplewrath Jan 2016 #128

This much is certain: as long as Democratic Eeyores say "no we can't" Maedhros Jan 2016 #130

Here�s One Big Problem With The Bernie Sanders Plan For Health Care Utopia Gothmog Jan 2016 #131

Krugman has already chosen his side. What a sellout AZ Progressive Jan 2016 #133

That is the kind of hopelessness and capitulation to power we have already overdosed on. Todays_Illusion Jan 2016 #134

We have to try Marrah_G Jan 2016 #135

Yes, thank you Marrah_G Todays_Illusion Jan 2016 #136

How about Medicare for All? jpak Jan 2016 #143