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cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
42. That's a punchy bon mot, but not very accurate.
Sat Jun 2, 2012, 01:14 AM
Jun 2012

Last edited Sat Jun 2, 2012, 01:33 PM - Edit history (3)

Does Krugman have a history of saying "X will pass the senate," or does he say, "X is correct and should be proposed and fought for."

Adherents of the "Krugman doesn't understand politics" rationalization do not, in fact understand politics.

The utility of proposing what is correct is not limited to whether it will pass the senate. Politics is not only about legislative vote counting. It is also about the development of public support, the steering of public attitudes, the framing of issues and ideas.

Why don't we see similar snark about how Martin Luther King couldn't count to 60? I'm sure he favored a lot of legislation that wasn't going to pass that week.

What the US government did in 2009 guaranteed that the election of 2012 would take place during a struggling economy. That is the stupidest political decision I have ever heard of, so I am willing to give the B of the D and assume that the administration did not realize that they were making a political blunder. They must have believed the economic problem was largely self-repairing in a 3 year time-frame.

If they had KNOWN (which they should have) that what was politically possible in 2009 would lead to a disappointing, under-performing economy then Obama should have been on TV saying just that.

Instead he was saying, we have done just what was needed to get back on track.

When you know that is going to blow up in your face and take willing political ownership of an economy that is sure to stagger down the road anyway is that shrewd politics?

If the head of the CDC said, "Only a national vaccination rate of at least 95% can hope to prevent this new deadly space virus from going epidemic," but we know that a couple of blue dogs in the Senate will not fund anything over 40% coverage do we denounce the head of the CDC as politically naive?

And when the senate passes 40% coverage does the president go on TV to talk about how this will solve the space virus problem?

And when the bodies start piling up, what force is there behind the call to vaccinate 95% of people?

"Whatever dude... you said 40% would fix it. Now you say 95%. You have no credibility here."

And the Republicans would be going, "The president's hare-brained vaccination scheme was tried, and it failed. Vaccination does not work. So our idea of putting leeches on the virus victims is clearly correct."



If Obama had done what was right, proposed and fought for what was right, he would not have gotten what he asked for out of the senate. That's a fact.

But when the economy staggered, as it was sure to do, the predicate would be laid. "See, I told you it wasn't enough. Now do what I wanted in the first place." And if Republicans had already taken over the House by then then he could be running against that.

And consider this alternative... let's say Obama had been chicken little and run around demanding more and predicting doom if more wasn't done and he turned out to be wrong. What's the downside? For him to have been wrong the economy would have had to have recovered on its own. He wouldn't be voted out of office for presiding over an awesome 2012 economy, no matter what he had said in 2009.


The reality is that 1) Obama didn't get the nature of the economic problem, and 2) he didn't want to fight with the blue dogs, knowing they would be needed for HCR.

I admire the hell out of the HCR push, whatever the policy defects. I am sympathetic to Obama's legislative priorites, since he did not get how bad the economy was. But to re-write history and pretend that Obama did understand the economy in 2009 paints Obama as a political moron. And I do not think he is.

Nobody with a political brain would take political ownership of an economic policy that was sure to fail. Obama definately has a good political brain. So he didn't get that it was sure to fail. QED.

So we can all stop pretending that the WH wanted to do the right thing but understood the political realities, unlike their stupid, naieve critics of the time.


Is Obama unable to count to 60? Why is he currently traversing the country proposing a jobs act that cannot pass Congress? Where is the scorn for his political cluelessness in such an un-pragmatic proposal?

Obama is doing what he is doing because he figured out, quite belatedly, that you cannot paint the opposition as obstructionist unless they are obstructing something, and the the president ought to get behind something that would actualy do good vis-a-vis the singular issue of the decade.

Demand what is right. The downside of appearing weak because you didn't get your way in the short-term is nothing compared to the downside of presiding over inadequate policy.

That's politics.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Yes, that is something that must be said! freshwest Jun 2012 #1
He is a good economist who has no clue of the political realities of 21st century America bluestateguy Jun 2012 #2
He's a bloody Firebagger! MannyGoldstein Jun 2012 #6
Are you saying that Krugman might as well save himself the effort of offering good ideas? ladjf Jun 2012 #53
Repeating this will never make it true. cthulu2016 Jun 2012 #7
Well, politicians, greedy Wall St schmucks ProfessionalLeftist Jun 2012 #10
So you are ok with it? nm rhett o rick Jun 2012 #17
He's brilliant and great at economics. grantcart Jun 2012 #26
Thank you bluestateguy Jun 2012 #28
If his failing is that he underestimates the full effects of GOP obstructionism Zalatix Jun 2012 #35
true donquijoterocket Jun 2012 #76
The "political reality" that you speak of.... tex-wyo-dem Jun 2012 #37
+10000 Amen! RufusTFirefly Jun 2012 #79
Personally, I sympathize with his impatience. nt ladjf Jun 2012 #54
*Both* parties are clamoring for austerity MannyGoldstein Jun 2012 #59
which proves donquijoterocket Jun 2012 #77
He can. He's heard that argument. But he knows, logically, that when people in power sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #39
Absolutely right Lydia Leftcoast Jun 2012 #60
IOW you have to be willing to fight for it Agony Jun 2012 #67
20? chervilant Jun 2012 #88
+1 Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #74
He's not a fool and he's not ever passed a single piece of legislation. grantcart Jun 2012 #82
Krugman is doing the job he signed on to do. He informs the public, AND elected sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #86
Oh, brother. Hissyspit Jun 2012 #97
That's a punchy bon mot, but not very accurate. cthulu2016 Jun 2012 #42
Excellent post... sendero Jun 2012 #48
Excellent, excellent post. MannyGoldstein Jun 2012 #63
great post paulk Jun 2012 #83
I responded to a more general criticism of Krugman in 82. grantcart Jun 2012 #84
Excellent. And he could now be excoriating the stupid Rs bread_and_roses Jun 2012 #87
I got here by way of a reference from Manny in another thread, and owe him for that. Jackpine Radical Jun 2012 #99
Sure he can count to 60. bvar22 Jun 2012 #93
Remember LBJ needed 67 Votes not 60 to overcome the Filibuster on the Civil Rights Bill happyslug Jun 2012 #103
Great post... Sekhmets Daughter Jun 2012 #107
The problem is not with Krugman, it's with the politicians who have no clue of economic reality. JVS Jun 2012 #41
lol, right. Krugman just isn't blessed with your grasp of politics. Marr Jun 2012 #45
Krugman is doing a wonderful job of offering up a steady stream of good ideas about what ladjf Jun 2012 #52
I suspect he understands that political reality doesn't trump actual reality TheKentuckian Jun 2012 #55
And you miss the whole point quakerboy Jun 2012 #78
someone needs to be saying what Krugman is saying paulk Jun 2012 #81
You are a good person who has no clue of the realities of the current situation. Jakes Progress Jun 2012 #89
What? chervilant Jun 2012 #91
Lol, mr political science knows more than kurgan! Classic! Logical Jun 2012 #98
I respectfully disagree. Sekhmets Daughter Jun 2012 #106
Love it! JNelson6563 Jun 2012 #3
Sing it brother chthulu! Yup, this willful ignorance has to stop. nt riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #4
Krugman is dangerous, unrealistic and MannyGoldstein Jun 2012 #5
Look out, MG, you're about to become Ron Green Jun 2012 #9
Third-Way Manny, you're so sensible! hatrack Jun 2012 #11
He's a troop hating elistist. Gregorian Jun 2012 #16
As St. Margaret Thatcher said........ socialist_n_TN Jun 2012 #19
Thatcher was pretty much evil incarnate to us Prophet 451 Jun 2012 #94
Yep, can imagine so.......... socialist_n_TN Jun 2012 #101
I LIKE you! Vanje Jun 2012 #32
Your caricature is conflating different issues, as usual. joshcryer Jun 2012 #47
he's spot on in regards to the "Third Way" phony democratic mentality fascisthunter Jun 2012 #66
lol fascisthunter Jun 2012 #65
DUzy! Odin2005 Jun 2012 #72
very pragmatic datasuspect Jun 2012 #73
did you forget the "Sarcasm" smily? ~nt 99th_Monkey Jun 2012 #96
We need someone to run around with their hair on fire. Baitball Blogger Jun 2012 #8
I love that pic. Ruby the Liberal Jun 2012 #12
It's near the beginning, I think. cthulu2016 Jun 2012 #15
Bush the Lesser was the biggest Keynesian of all time banned from Kos Jun 2012 #13
Just spending Federal monies does not make you Keynesian tkmorris Jun 2012 #18
Bush spent it on war, a Keynesian would have flooded States w/ cash & kept public employees working FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #20
Bush spent not just in Iraq but DHS, TSA, Medicare Drugs, schools, CIA, banned from Kos Jun 2012 #23
Those "$300 checks" were loans, by the way. You paid it back on the following year's tax return. PSPS Jun 2012 #34
You left out a few things. sabrina 1 Jun 2012 #40
Bush & Cheney funneled the federal $$$ to their buddies and themselves, privatizing suffragette Jun 2012 #29
This is not a popular observation, but cthulu2016 Jun 2012 #36
Well put. Bush's stimilus was real and in no way intended to benefit the middle class. banned from Kos Jun 2012 #51
The internet bubble did more than Sekhmets Daughter Jun 2012 #108
Funny, too, that they didn't start counting that cash until 2010. DCKit Jun 2012 #49
Fuck reason ! RagAss Jun 2012 #14
who is that man? HiPointDem Jun 2012 #21
Anton Chugar... awoke_in_2003 Jun 2012 #24
but who is he? HiPointDem Jun 2012 #25
Javier something or another........ socialist_n_TN Jun 2012 #27
Javier Bardem . . . hubba, hubba! nt patrice Jun 2012 #30
lol. i find him kind of creepy, at least in that clip. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #43
Oh yeah, in No Country he's max-creepy. Have you seen him in Marquez' Love in the Time of Cholera? n patrice Jun 2012 #69
How about The Dancer Upstairs? nt patrice Jun 2012 #71
I used smaller words. I provided homey examples.... illustrated with cartoons.... jtuck004 Jun 2012 #22
Krugman wanted to be Hari Seldon as a kid starroute Jun 2012 #31
asimov upi402 Jun 2012 #38
Stiglitz and Keen ftw! pam4water Jun 2012 #33
He does not seem to understand economics hfojvt Jun 2012 #44
My wife and I laughed our asses off as we read your speculation coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #46
Krugman is a ProSense Jun 2012 #50
Why does Obama refuse to even listen to Krugman at all? rurallib Jun 2012 #56
Beacuse a) Obama is a poltician, and cthulu2016 Jun 2012 #68
I disagree. bvar22 Jun 2012 #105
HERE IS WHAT I THOUGHT WAS THE KEY PART OF DR. KRUGMAN'S ARGUMENT IN THE VIDEO drynberg Jun 2012 #57
Perfect! Waiting For Everyman Jun 2012 #58
K & R, excellent OT, CTHulu2016, excellent points in discussion, austerity talk mother earth Jun 2012 #61
IMO, the PTB and their paid for politicians know that Mr. Krugman is right. dotymed Jun 2012 #62
I do not think the desire to obstuct came to them in a dream 1-Old-Man Jun 2012 #64
Welcome to DU, 1-O-M! tosh Jun 2012 #70
WELCOME!!! Great post! Odin2005 Jun 2012 #80
The GOP is nothing Sekhmets Daughter Jun 2012 #109
And so are Americans felix_numinous Jun 2012 #75
The only thing that will finally sink into the nutjobs is "I told you so". Thats what happens southernyankeebelle Jun 2012 #85
Even that doesn't work cthulu2016 Jun 2012 #90
I never bought the WMD in the first place. I blame the republicans for pushing it. I blame southernyankeebelle Jun 2012 #92
Krugman/Warren 2016 ~nt 99th_Monkey Jun 2012 #95
that picture is now my screen saver. irisblue Jun 2012 #100
I am no economist but When I was in college I took economics 101 TNLib Jun 2012 #102
I worship this man Rittermeister Jun 2012 #104
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