General Discussion

jonno99

(2,620 posts)

151. Or - you could argue

Wed Feb 3, 2016, 07:41 PM

Feb 2016

that it is more barbaric to keep someone in a cage for the rest of their life.

And the logical justification for the DP? How about this: the person committed a capital murder, they snuffed out an innocent life, they destroyed a family, a dream, a child's security, etc. etc. etc. And in doing so they forfeited any claim to their own life.

A society that would simply put such a person in a cage actively diminishes the worth of the victim. Tragically, such a society 1) erroneously claims justice is served 2) pats itself on the back for being morally superior to those who would exact the FULL measure of what the murderer actually deserves.

btw - you keep using "barbaric" when describing lethal injection. Google "barbaric deaths", then come back and explain how causing someone to fall asleep is barbaric (cause I think the word you're looking for is 'merciful').

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After keeping him in prison for literally half his life, Georgia executed a 72 year old man. [View all] CBGLuthier Feb 2016 OP

We really need to get past this death by state madokie Feb 2016 #1

i too hate it when criminals kill their victim and/or abduct and torture them MariaThinks Feb 2016 #4

Are you trying to suggest those opposed to the death penalty aren't? Major Nikon Feb 2016 #5

As long as your bronze age bloodlust is satiated, it's all good Orrex Feb 2016 #7

If there were any other option with zero recidivism you'd have a point whatthehey Feb 2016 #16

You're setting a false and impossible standard Orrex Feb 2016 #18

Defense lawyers have had since 1979 to cast doubt on his guilt NT 1939 Feb 2016 #77

Well, as irrelevant points go, that's pretty much irrelevant Orrex Feb 2016 #78

Some just seem to have developed the taste.... daleanime Feb 2016 #133

Can you guarantee that everyone executed is in fact guilty? alarimer Feb 2016 #23

Why is this obvious point so hard for some people to comprehend? Orrex Feb 2016 #81

some of us are on the wrong side of the evolutionary bell curve.. TimeToEvolve Feb 2016 #130

I support the death penalty, but I also support a moritorium on older cases from when we didn't Ghost in the Machine Feb 2016 #143

In cases such as you mentioned above, I completely agree with the DP. smirkymonkey Feb 2016 #147

It seems to me like some people are more concerned about the "rights" of a murderer than they Ghost in the Machine Feb 2016 #159

Very reasonable... TipTok Feb 2016 #152

Thank you, TipTok. I know what you mean about the confession part... 'they were coerced', Ghost in the Machine Feb 2016 #160

Cops lie and eyewitness accounts are woefully unreliable . Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2016 #196

Your "Confessions" argumeny was already addressed in post #152... As for "grainy video", Ghost in the Machine Feb 2016 #197

I don't know what the problem is but banks, ATMs and convenience stores must pay extra for grainy. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2016 #198

You have some valid points, but this..... Ghost in the Machine Feb 2016 #200

+1,000 malaise Feb 2016 #163

can you guarantee that every convicted killer will not kill again MariaThinks Feb 2016 #219

Hooray for summary executions! Hooray! Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #134

Also, what on earth are you talking about Death Penalty opponents having "blood lust"? Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #169

your ability to have a rational discussion on an important topic about life and death MariaThinks Feb 2016 #149

Gommint can't do nothin' right jpak Feb 2016 #155

If you don't like being called out for bloodlust, then provide another justification Orrex Feb 2016 #220

Really? Because I absolutely love when innocent people get killed by criminals! Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #50

........ daleanime Feb 2016 #131

You must hate W jpak Feb 2016 #154

Enjoy your short stay. Nt Logical Feb 2016 #210

Did not even have to look to know what race he was. n/t dixiegrrrrl Feb 2016 #6

As far as I'm concerned it doesn't matter madokie Feb 2016 #9

Agreed. n/t dixiegrrrrl Feb 2016 #57

What? You think all robbers and murderers come from one race? TipTok Feb 2016 #28

No, I don't. n/t dixiegrrrrl Feb 2016 #56

So why would you assume? TipTok Feb 2016 #62

No, but a significantly higher proportion of non-white offenders Ms. Toad Feb 2016 #192

Amen..... daleanime Feb 2016 #129

I'm not for capital punishment either. cwydro Feb 2016 #2

agreed MariaThinks Feb 2016 #3

"Jones later told another officer, "There is a man in the back - hurt bad," court records said. femmedem Feb 2016 #8

Respectfully, two different juries disagreed. branford Feb 2016 #10

Oh I am quite confident those 24 people were his "peers." CBGLuthier Feb 2016 #12

You've just made an allegation that racism irreparably tainted Jones' two trials. branford Feb 2016 #27

No, I am not willing to do the research. I am just confident in how Georgia operated in the CBGLuthier Feb 2016 #31

If you want to oppose the death penalty on principle, fine. branford Feb 2016 #39

He was 72 years old at the time of execution gyroscope Feb 2016 #11

36 years in prison. They basically gave him a life sentence followed by death. CBGLuthier Feb 2016 #13

What would you rather do? gyroscope Feb 2016 #14

No, obtuse one, I believe in a life sentence. CBGLuthier Feb 2016 #19

Like you said gyroscope Feb 2016 #20

Post removed Post removed Feb 2016 #21

My sympathy lies with the victim gyroscope Feb 2016 #24

Oh, I have a life. Unlike the man just murdered in your name. CBGLuthier Feb 2016 #26

He lived a long life gyroscope Feb 2016 #30

Post removed Post removed Feb 2016 #32

So the State of Georgia Uponthegears Feb 2016 #158

Scandanavian countries have max 21 year sentences for any crime yeoman6987 Feb 2016 #42

Interesting, I wonder what the recidivism rates are for grown men who rape babies snooper2 Feb 2016 #59

Probably low. That's the difference between our country yeoman6987 Feb 2016 #63

Now, I think that is complete bullshit. smirkymonkey Feb 2016 #148

"There are some people who should never walk freely in normal society ever again"... Ghost in the Machine Feb 2016 #199

Must there be a presumption that they would kill again? HereSince1628 Feb 2016 #22

Do you think it likely that a 72 year old would go on a killing spree? Orrex Feb 2016 #25

Like I said gyroscope Feb 2016 #29

Except it's been shown that is not the case kcr Feb 2016 #37

You can't know that gyroscope Feb 2016 #38

Not big on science, eh? n/t kcr Feb 2016 #44

Science can read people's minds and know their intent? gyroscope Feb 2016 #49

Don't need your permission, but thanks. I'll believe the facts. kcr Feb 2016 #52

Problem solved. Orrex Feb 2016 #40

Thats your opinion nt gyroscope Feb 2016 #43

My opinion is correct, and it doesn't result in state-sanctioned murder Orrex Feb 2016 #53

Your opinion is wrong gyroscope Feb 2016 #58

You are wrong because you are arguing from emotionalism. Orrex Feb 2016 #65

Emotion has nothing to do with it gyroscope Feb 2016 #68

You're not reading what you're writing. Orrex Feb 2016 #71

You're not going to be emotional gyroscope Feb 2016 #76

Think of the children! Major Nikon Feb 2016 #79

Again, you ask a boorish question to provoke an emotional response. Orrex Feb 2016 #80

Like it or not, people are going to be emotional when it comes to heinous crimes gyroscope Feb 2016 #82

Again, that's not the point. How can you not see this? Orrex Feb 2016 #89

Who says the law is driven by emotion? gyroscope Feb 2016 #91

You're full of shenanigans. Full stop. Orrex Feb 2016 #92

You're full of crap, full stop gyroscope Feb 2016 #140

But you are being emotional, and you have been since the outset Orrex Feb 2016 #145

No, it's fact. Murder rates did not go up in states that abolished the death penalty. jeff47 Feb 2016 #132

Doesn't matter if it does or not gyroscope Feb 2016 #135

It does matter when you claim the deterrent effect is the reason to keep it. jeff47 Feb 2016 #138

That's not the only reason to keep it gyroscope Feb 2016 #141

If you oppose the death penalty, branford Feb 2016 #34

This message was self-deleted by its author gyroscope Feb 2016 #41

Life without parole is morally superior to capital punishment Orrex Feb 2016 #46

Defendants already have ample reviews of both their convictions and sentences branford Feb 2016 #54

Is life in one state more valuable than in another? Orrex Feb 2016 #67

We live in a federal republic, with states retaining significant policing and other powers. branford Feb 2016 #73

"Separate but equal" then. Got it. Orrex Feb 2016 #75

No, not at all, and the "separate but equal" jibe is both needlessly insulting and offensive branford Feb 2016 #83

Perhaps, but I was making a point. Orrex Feb 2016 #87

Again, the Supreme Court has repeatedly held that capital punishment is indeed constitutional. branford Feb 2016 #94

I'm not comfortable with the phrase "viable punishment" Orrex Feb 2016 #96

Sorry, my prior post about LWOP was intended to reply to post #22 by HereSince1628 nt branford Feb 2016 #45

you mean like this guy ? Angel Martin Feb 2016 #186

The article isn't clear Orrex Feb 2016 #189

I think letting this man continue to live in jail after he'd already been there 36 years kcr Feb 2016 #33

I appreciate your passion, but please educate yourself as ... 11 Bravo Feb 2016 #115

For the record, I hope you realize Bernie is opposed to the death penalty. bullwinkle428 Feb 2016 #35

Being a supporter of someone gyroscope Feb 2016 #36

Insane. Odin2005 Feb 2016 #15

Lynching? branford Feb 2016 #48

Are you suggesting that only black people receive the death penalty? TipTok Feb 2016 #84

Actually, it's the race of the victim more than that of the perp that correlates with use of the DP KamaAina Feb 2016 #98

That's possible... TipTok Feb 2016 #101

Not just possible...proven..... msanthrope Feb 2016 #162

No one is arguing with you... TipTok Feb 2016 #164

Kill! Kill! Kill! Iggo Feb 2016 #17

Thankfully, the victim magically came back to life the moment Jones drew his last breath. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #47

Does putting the perp in jail bring the victim back to life? gyroscope Feb 2016 #51

No. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #55

Many murderers TeddyR Feb 2016 #64

I wouldn't say "many" do. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #70

I agree that "many" was the wrong word TeddyR Feb 2016 #93

The problem is.... Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #99

Are you telling me that imprisoning them for life does? TipTok Feb 2016 #100

No, I'm not telling you that. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #102

The DP also removes them from society... TipTok Feb 2016 #104

But they've already been removed from society at that point. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #105

Punishment, justice, deterrence and no possibility of escape... TipTok Feb 2016 #106

#1 and #2 have already been accomplished by a life prison sentence. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #107

Some would disagree about 1 and 2... TipTok Feb 2016 #109

Being imprisoned for life isn't punishment or justice? Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #111

Imprisonment is one variant... TipTok Feb 2016 #112

But again, what would the death penalty accomplish that life without parole wouldn't? Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #113

Not at all... TipTok Feb 2016 #116

If not God, then natural law. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #123

We have a fundamental disagreement... TipTok Feb 2016 #124

Punishment is seperate from the question of death. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #126

It is supposed to be the ultimate deterrent toward crime...works great right? Rex Feb 2016 #121

What I don't get about the deterrance thing...... Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #125

I agree, I doubt it has ever deterred a single criminal. Rex Feb 2016 #128

Capital punishment is a moral disgrace. nt ladjf Feb 2016 #60

Death Penalty Information Sheet OnlinePoker Feb 2016 #61

I found it disgusting... Phentex Feb 2016 #66

People who support the death penalty ronnie624 Feb 2016 #69

They do, but they just don't care Major Nikon Feb 2016 #72

It is definitely a very clearly implied element of their 'reasoning'. ronnie624 Feb 2016 #86

...are killers. Iggo Feb 2016 #74

But people who have spent decades on death row have been cleared and let go! killbotfactory Feb 2016 #90

Case in point. ronnie624 Feb 2016 #95

That story gets even better (or worse) Major Nikon Feb 2016 #97

Sold him to the knacker, before the upkeep got too expensive. hunter Feb 2016 #85

barbaric = hyperbole. The guy was given a drug to make him fall asleep. While jonno99 Feb 2016 #108

I don't respect your opinion. hunter Feb 2016 #110

Civilized? As I said elswhere in this thread, life is precious, and those who throw jonno99 Feb 2016 #118

Nope. I don't respect that world view. hunter Feb 2016 #119

Ok. nt jonno99 Feb 2016 #122

So under that logic, shouldn't we execute anyone convicted of a homicide offense? Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #127

I understand your position: jonno99 Feb 2016 #139

No, you don't. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #142

Let's not fool ourselves jonno99 Feb 2016 #144

Lethal injection--and all other methods--is barbaric. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #146

Or - you could argue jonno99 Feb 2016 #151

Um, no. It's not. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #167

+1 Uponthegears Feb 2016 #191

We didn't behead him in the streets in front of a crowd, though, because we are civilized. nt killbotfactory Feb 2016 #88

Fortunately, America has yet to reach the level of civilization in which killing people is Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #103

"killing people is considered immoral" I think the arguement can be made that jonno99 Feb 2016 #114

There's a lot of ex or current soldiers who haven't paid the old testament price. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #117

Why limit it to soldiers? We need to throw cops in there too - right? jonno99 Feb 2016 #120

I get it. "Just following orders" lets them off the hook of the eye-for-an-eye penalty. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #150

"Just following orders"? What are you talking about? Soldiers on a battlefield haven't chosen to jonno99 Feb 2016 #153

No. You're the one calling for an eye for eye. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #156

Nobody on this thread is suggesting "eye for an eye" - certainly not me. jonno99 Feb 2016 #161

Well, it sure sounds like it. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #168

I agree, disgusting. Should have been executed decades ago, like his fellow murdering Waldorf Feb 2016 #136

Hooray for summary executions! nt Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #137

Do not take this personally Uponthegears Feb 2016 #157

DU is not a meeting place for liberals, branford Feb 2016 #165

This is one of those "wrong side of history" issues Orrex Feb 2016 #166

I believe some of the greatest impediments to the democratic abolition of capital punishment branford Feb 2016 #170

That is a deflection Orrex Feb 2016 #171

Wildly unsupported? branford Feb 2016 #174

Seriously? Orrex Feb 2016 #178

Or in the 1850's: "I believe that some of the greatest impediments to the democratic abolition of... xocet Feb 2016 #187

Point 1 Uponthegears Feb 2016 #175

Let's discuss this counselor Uponthegears Feb 2016 #177

so people who disagree with you are 'beyond disgusting'? hfojvt Feb 2016 #172

I don't know if I'd characterize it as "disgusting." Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #173

Changing the attitude from hostility and disgust branford Feb 2016 #176

The story is the story, and you can charactarize it however you like. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #179

It not characterizing the story as "disgusting" that's the problem, branford Feb 2016 #180

The OP posted the story, and after the link simply said "Disgusting." Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #181

The OP was banned from his own thread because of his accusations and insults, branford Feb 2016 #182

Doesn't change the fact you and the other poster misread the original post. nt Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #183

No, I commented on it in the context of the OP's and other's posts. branford Feb 2016 #184

I'm sure some do. nt Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2016 #185

The future Uponthegears Feb 2016 #190

welcome to DU hfojvt Feb 2016 #194

It's tough Uponthegears Feb 2016 #195

funny what passes for debate with some people hfojvt Feb 2016 #201

Thanks, in a way Uponthegears Feb 2016 #203

You're a little fuzzy on what constitutes the Democratic Party's position on capital punishment. branford Feb 2016 #204

Oh, I am fully Uponthegears Feb 2016 #205

Our values? branford Feb 2016 #206

Why yes Uponthegears Feb 2016 #207

It's revenge instead of justice once again. n/t xocet Feb 2016 #188

I keep refreshing, and it still SAYS democraticunderground.com . . . Ms. Toad Feb 2016 #193

Read the Democratic Platform, branford Feb 2016 #202

Support for the death penalty Ms. Toad Feb 2016 #208

You are certainly entitled to your opinion about capital punishment, branford Feb 2016 #209

So you oppose TeddyR Feb 2016 #226

Justice? Uponthegears Feb 2016 #227

You really think TeddyR Feb 2016 #234

Let's roll Uponthegears Feb 2016 #236

Lol, real dems get it. Unlike you. Look at the countries who support the DP. Nt Logical Feb 2016 #211

"Real Dems?" branford Feb 2016 #212

It is obvious you're clueless on this topic...... Logical Feb 2016 #213

You're only arguing what you believe the Democrat Party *should* collectively believe, branford Feb 2016 #215

Are you saying the democratic party platform never changes? noamnety Feb 2016 #216

No, the Platform can most certainly change if sufficient Democrats want it to change. branford Feb 2016 #217

Easier advice to give than take, eh? noamnety Feb 2016 #218

You avoided the point. branford Feb 2016 #221

You are mistaken. noamnety Feb 2016 #222

Well, then you should have absolutely no problem changing the Democratic Platform. branford Feb 2016 #224

At least you exposed yourself for future considerations. Nt Logical Feb 2016 #223

All the platform proves Uponthegears Feb 2016 #225

So true! nt Logical Feb 2016 #228

LOL, so when "the party" was against gay marriage you were for that also? Fucking think for yourself Logical Feb 2016 #229

I more than comfortable with my support for capital punishment, branford Feb 2016 #230

And if the party changed their mind tomorrow and stated it, would you change too? nt Logical Feb 2016 #231

No, I probably would not. branford Feb 2016 #232

Why do you support it? More costly than life. No deterrent. And ripe with errors. nt Logical Feb 2016 #233

Simply, I believe some crimes are sufficiently heinous to warrant the ultimate punishment. branford Feb 2016 #235

there are sick fucks everywhere Skittles Feb 2016 #214