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aikoaiko

(34,214 posts)

143. Mostly good but there are unhappy side effects

Reply to kentuck (Original post)

Sun Jun 3, 2012, 01:27 PM

Jun 2012

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Capitalism - Good or bad ? [View all] kentuck Jun 2012 OP

Good slackmaster Jun 2012 #1

As currently practiced in America -- BAD bupkus Jun 2012 #2

Capitalism freed us from Monarchies orpupilofnature57 Jun 2012 #3

Good or bad is not really the point. Capitalism is well suited to human nature. Skinner Jun 2012 #4

That argument is made many times. It turns on what human nature is. rug Jun 2012 #8

Capitalism exists nearly everywhere. randome Jun 2012 #13

So does bacteria. rug Jun 2012 #17

Bacteria are selfish. (nt) Skinner Jun 2012 #31

They'd need a concept of self first. rug Jun 2012 #34

Bacteria lack the desire to accumulate finer things. randome Jun 2012 #38

I'm tempted to bring up the oldest successful collection of living things but that would get silly. rug Jun 2012 #40

That kind of 'success' is according to their nature, too. randome Jun 2012 #44

Capitalism has been ascendant for historical reasons. rug Jun 2012 #46

Empires are still ascendant now, in a different form. Zalatix Jun 2012 #84

Not at all. Skinner Jun 2012 #41

They don't have a choice. People do. Ergo, politics. rug Jun 2012 #43

Some would argue that humans have much less choice than they think. Skinner Jun 2012 #48

bacteria are not sentient!!! BOG PERSON Jun 2012 #37

Neither are republican voters. rug Jun 2012 #42

I think you meant sapient. UnrepentantLiberal Jun 2012 #73

ok? BOG PERSON Jun 2012 #74

OK what? UnrepentantLiberal Jun 2012 #75

Bacteria are NOT shellfish. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2012 #85

Greed can be relied upon; Altruism cannot FarCenter Jun 2012 #14

For one thing, that's based on a false assumption. rug Jun 2012 #26

The society could be any of an extended family, a clan, a state, a nation, a hemisphere. FarCenter Jun 2012 #52

LIARS & OUTLIERS - Enabling the Trust That Society Needs to Thrive by Bruce Schneier FarCenter Jun 2012 #55

Under no circumstances... kentuck Jun 2012 #18

At the risk of pissing off the head honcho of DU, your post is ahistorical, coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #19

Kinda depends on how you define... TreasonousBastard Jun 2012 #45

Those damned Injuns needed them some civilizing, gawl-durnnit! - n/t coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #50

Because the pre-Columbian societies were slave cultures....... socialist_n_TN Jun 2012 #83

OK, I'm not an expert here and I don't want to propound as coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #135

So how well did non-capitalism work out for these indigenous peoples? (nt) Nye Bevan Jun 2012 #118

Does it really matter to this discussion how well 'non-capitalism' worked out? Not trying to coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #129

I love it. First the capitalist apologists claim capitalism is human nature and exists everywhere. Puregonzo1188 Jun 2012 #138

Post structuralists would argue that the very concept of such a thing as coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #140

"capitalist apologist hate and despise debate and must shut it down at all costs." Skinner Jun 2012 #141

Social Darwinism? We can't help ourselves from being predators of other humans? Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2012 #54

No, it's not Social Darwinism. (nt) Skinner Jun 2012 #56

Are you talking about "nature" or "inclinations"? Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2012 #62

Bad. rug Jun 2012 #5

prescient as heck BOG PERSON Jun 2012 #86

bad bluedave Jun 2012 #6

Gray - black or white? JHB Jun 2012 #7

Bad. Starry Messenger Jun 2012 #9

Bad. DLevine Jun 2012 #10

Good and bad meow2u3 Jun 2012 #11

Inherently oppressive by definition - TBF Jun 2012 #12

You know sometimes I wonder just how worse feudalism really was than capitalism? white_wolf Jun 2012 #66

Guarantees of protection? Zalatix Jun 2012 #67

Is that really that much different today? white_wolf Jun 2012 #69

Point taken! Zalatix Jun 2012 #70

Agree TBF Jun 2012 #87

Yes, definitely. H2O Man Jun 2012 #15

Historically useful, now outmoded and soon to coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #16

I agree! SoutherDem Jun 2012 #25

Good 1-Old-Man Jun 2012 #20

Greed is not good... kentuck Jun 2012 #27

Competition is not greed, neither is capital formation 1-Old-Man Jun 2012 #29

Filled up your gas tank lately? kentuck Jun 2012 #36

Inherently evil. Vidar Jun 2012 #21

Depends on who you ask SoutherDem Jun 2012 #22

With or without corporate socialism? nt valerief Jun 2012 #23

When properly regulated, good. boxman15 Jun 2012 #24

Regulations are the problem SoutherDem Jun 2012 #28

That's why the Democratic Party needs to hit back hard. boxman15 Jun 2012 #30

IMO, vigorously regulated small business capitalism, with a large government sector for ProgressiveEconomist Jun 2012 #92

chaotic neutral BOG PERSON Jun 2012 #32

Good. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #33

This message was self-deleted by its author 99Forever Jun 2012 #35

Bad question... TreasonousBastard Jun 2012 #39

To each, according to his needs.... kentuck Jun 2012 #47

"The comfort of the rich depends upon an abundant supply of the poor." Voltaire Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2012 #49

"The Pleasures of the Rich are bought with the Tears of the Poor" --Rev. Thos. Fuller Mairead Jun 2012 #60

VERY Bad. Mairead Jun 2012 #51

I don't expect you -or any of us- to have all the answers but... randome Jun 2012 #53

Imagine, if you will, what the knock-on effects would be of four relatively minor changes Mairead Jun 2012 #59

That sounds nice. But how would anything get made that is technologically advanced? Skinner Jun 2012 #77

You make a very good point Skinner... kentuck Jun 2012 #89

One of the answers to your question is market socialism. white_wolf Jun 2012 #91

Think of Mondragón. Of open-source software. Of inventors. Of university research centers. Mairead Jun 2012 #95

Well said. randome Jun 2012 #96

I still don't see who would build your computer... Skinner Jun 2012 #98

Capitalism is war by other means. randome Jun 2012 #99

You really don't? Mairead Jun 2012 #100

A very, well-thought out post. kentuck Jun 2012 #101

So, why didn't Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak form a cooperative corporation? Skinner Jun 2012 #103

I think I've already answered that Mairead Jun 2012 #105

EXACTLY. Skinner Jun 2012 #106

You're arguing a fallacious version of the Anthropic Principle Mairead Jun 2012 #110

We would not have the scientific principle if it wasn't for religion. randome Jun 2012 #108

Very few human advancements have been "organic" in the way I think you're using the term. Mairead Jun 2012 #112

Indoor plumbing. Sanitation disposal. Central heating and air conditioning. randome Jun 2012 #115

Okay, we're talking about two different levels Mairead Jun 2012 #122

'Psychological brownian motion". Excellent way to phrase it. randome Jun 2012 #125

Smart people don't always do the right thing. Zalatix Jun 2012 #132

And just to hook on to your great posts here- Starry Messenger Jun 2012 #109

Well caught! Thank you. Mairead Jun 2012 #117

"A single person or small group of people in a workshop ... Mairead Jun 2012 #102

Why can't I ride a Lion today? Skinner Jun 2012 #104

Because they're no longer being made, and the surviving Lion went back to the museum Mairead Jun 2012 #107

Capitalism without corporations? Is that what you're advocating? randome Jun 2012 #111

No, small-c capitalism without *private-profit* corporations Mairead Jun 2012 #113

I am not arguing that for-profit corporations innovate. Skinner Jun 2012 #114

Let's presume the advantages are as you say Mairead Jun 2012 #116

The evidence that capitalism works is everywhere. Skinner Jun 2012 #120

I'd urge you to read about Mondragón. Mairead Jun 2012 #123

Necessity, not Capitalism or profit, is the first mother of invention. Zalatix Jun 2012 #124

Very true. randome Jun 2012 #126

One of the greatest signs of human evolution in the modern era is the Open Source movement. Zalatix Jun 2012 #128

Unregulated capitalism is devastating Marrah_G Jun 2012 #57

As I said before - when one companies' annual profit is greater than the combined GDP of 50 countries... Initech Jun 2012 #58

Capitalism is fine.. and-justice-for-all Jun 2012 #61

Bad. It is predicated on exploitation, wide spread poverty, and endless resources. TheKentuckian Jun 2012 #63

Their wet dream was always to have the Chinese "market"... kentuck Jun 2012 #64

++++ Starry Messenger Jun 2012 #78

Good with governments that provide safety nets, regulations... shcrane71 Jun 2012 #65

Good JonLP24 Jun 2012 #68

Whatever system they have in Denmark or Sweden probably works the best. AJTheMan Jun 2012 #71

Which is free market capitalism. nt hack89 Jun 2012 #76

So yes, free market capitalism is good. I'm not sure why but it is good. Better than communism. AJTheMan Jun 2012 #88

I think it's funny that people are talking about "human nature" being the proof of capitalism's HiPointDem Jun 2012 #72

Exactly. I find it funny (fsvo "funny") Mairead Jun 2012 #97

Nothing is being "imposed" on anyone. Nye Bevan Jun 2012 #130

History says it was. Violently. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #142

Here is just one example of capitalism being imposed violently. white_wolf Jun 2012 #145

Good...or at least better FreeJoe Jun 2012 #79

Properly reigned in? Good. MrSlayer Jun 2012 #80

Bad GeorgeGist Jun 2012 #81

What kind of Capitalism? 99Forever Jun 2012 #82

Bad, but better than state socialism. joshcryer Jun 2012 #90

Good or bad is not possible to say. But so far the human condition has not yet created a sustainable Douglas Carpenter Jun 2012 #93

a horrible.... unkachuck Jun 2012 #94

Neither. It's amoral rucky Jun 2012 #119

Good. As history proves. This is the only way for the masses to improve their lot. Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #121

Because socialism is better. craigmatic Jun 2012 #127

Good if well regulated taught_me_patience Jun 2012 #131

I would look to basic human needs as the answer. randome Jun 2012 #133

It's definitely bad if it's allowed to run without limits. n/t cynatnite Jun 2012 #134

Capitalism is wonderful for anyone who has a comfortable and steady income, Jamaal510 Jun 2012 #136

Non-existent. daaron Jun 2012 #137

Capitalism is a system of production for exchange on a market, as opposed to production for use. Puregonzo1188 Jun 2012 #139

Mostly good but there are unhappy side effects aikoaiko Jun 2012 #143

Thanks to Skinner, mairead, randome, Starry Messenger, et al.... kentuck Jun 2012 #144

Very well said Mairead Jun 2012 #146