General Discussion

alarimer

(17,146 posts)

20. Because companies got rid of pensions.

Tue Feb 23, 2016, 09:40 AM

Feb 2016

401ks are a shit sandwich, full of fees that go to brokers.

They only benefit those that can afford to contribute. Many cannot.

It is all part of the race to the bottom for workers. Corporations screw everyone, all the time, whenever they can get away with it, with the complicity of both political parties. Black workers have it worse because they started from a worse position.

Fuck capitalism.

Also this is why the hatred for government employees is so effective. We still (on the state level, at least) have actual pensions. Not huge ones, as is erroneously reported in the media, but real ones. So, of course, the right wing needs to pit various workers against one another. Instead of mandating a return to a pension system for everyone, they are bent on tearing down the few good jobs left.

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White workers have nearly five times as much wealth in retirement accounts as black workers [View all] eridani Feb 2016 OP

I'd be interested to see the spread in those retirement accounts within the white population. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #1

What's five times zero? hobbit709 Feb 2016 #2

The switch to 401(k)s hurts everyone, but black people still take the brunt of it n/t eridani Feb 2016 #3

How does people saving their own money hurt others? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #5

Not having a defined benefits pension hurts people who don't make enough to save n/t eridani Feb 2016 #6

Many jobs do not offer 401(k)s. It's an incentive offered by employers to attract workers. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #10

Many jobs don't offer defined benefit pensions either eridani Feb 2016 #14

Okay, but that's not an unfairness issue. That's employers not being able to offer a benefit. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #15

By choosing shareholders over employees n/t eridani Feb 2016 #17

Not to draw too fine a point but 401(k) accounts are investments, making employees shareholders. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #25

And defined pension plans are massive collective investments making the Plan giant shareholders Bluenorthwest Feb 2016 #32

Yeah, right. The 1% own most shares eridani Feb 2016 #36

There's over $18 trillion in retirement accounts, only $5 trillion of which are in IRAs Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #37

You mean the people who have less than $5000 in savings will have hurt feefees? eridani Feb 2016 #38

What do you propose should happen to the $15 trillion in invested retirement accounts? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #39

What percentage of this is actually in the stock market? n/t eridani Feb 2016 #40

Around 60%; so, around $9 trillion. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #44

How nice for the top 10% who own 90% of stock market value eridani Feb 2016 #45

Again, it's not the 1% who are invested in 401(k)s. They don't need them. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #46

The top 10% is NOT the middle class eridani Feb 2016 #47

I didn't say the top 10% is middle class; I said the middle class are the ones invested in 401(k)s. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #48

I see. we hve no choice but to play the game the way our owners want us to. eridani Feb 2016 #49

What are your plans for $9 trillion in operating capital? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #50

Invest it in Social Security. eridani Feb 2016 #51

So, you would rip $9 trillion out of the operating finances of companies and Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #52

The OP was about how things got much worse for people when defined-- eridani Feb 2016 #54

"Companies don't just let funds reserved for those pensions sit there" Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #60

And I bet social security wouldnt get a dime Travis_0004 Feb 2016 #70

Nonsense. Adrahil Feb 2016 #73

There a re problems with defined benefit plans.... Adrahil Feb 2016 #72

My uncle's union pension disappeared last year... meaculpa2011 Feb 2016 #74

Yep GummyBearz Feb 2016 #75

I'm betting that among white people Bettie Feb 2016 #4

I wonder how much of that is driven by having a culture... TipTok Feb 2016 #7

I'd say it's driven by not having money n/t eridani Feb 2016 #8

... KentuckyWoman Feb 2016 #11

That's part of it... TipTok Feb 2016 #13

Wealth is generational gollygee Feb 2016 #33

Therein lies the answer to why Bernie's campaign doesn't resonate with blacks WhaTHellsgoingonhere Feb 2016 #9

Sanders has consistently been against the policies that cause the disparities eridani Feb 2016 #12

Black voters have specific needs and issues. My policies "raise all boats" doesn't speak to them WhaTHellsgoingonhere Feb 2016 #18

Yes--she speaks to them by calling black youth "superpredators" eridani Feb 2016 #19

Water under the bridge. WhaTHellsgoingonhere Feb 2016 #23

. . . and since the average 401k has less than $15,000 . . . . HughBeaumont Feb 2016 #16

Because companies got rid of pensions. alarimer Feb 2016 #20

I don't even get why were suckered into thinking this would work. HughBeaumont Feb 2016 #24

gee, thank goodness the aa vote is going to someone who will really help them restorefreedom Feb 2016 #21

Not this one bigwillq Feb 2016 #22

There's a lot going on here, with various drivers whatthehey Feb 2016 #26

I can tell Trajan Feb 2016 #28

Whatevs. Tata. whatthehey Feb 2016 #30

Where I used to work the match was up to 6% paid every payday. Nice because it compounded LiberalArkie Feb 2016 #34

This is solid advice! GOLGO 13 Feb 2016 #35

People in jobs without such plans can just go fuck themselves, presumably n/t eridani Feb 2016 #42

Well, no, there are plenty of individual retirement account services Recursion Feb 2016 #56

Which is ever so helpful to people who don't have anything left over after expenses eridani Feb 2016 #58

Whatever Recursion Feb 2016 #61

In my last quarter from Oct- end of Dec 2015 GOLGO 13 Feb 2016 #77

What about the people who can't afford to pay anything in? n/t eridani Feb 2016 #41

It's a pretty miniscule population that literally can't afford to put *anything* in Recursion Feb 2016 #53

No, it's the majority of the population eridani Feb 2016 #57

And nearly all of them could have afforded to save more Recursion Feb 2016 #59

Many of us who are unemployed now because of "guest worker" contractization of our work force cascadiance Feb 2016 #76

Well then�� Color me black MagickMuffin Feb 2016 #27

What group of white washed BS ? Trajan Feb 2016 #29

It was my attempt at a joke since I don't have a 401K MagickMuffin Feb 2016 #31

90% of the value of the stock market is held by the top 10% eridani Feb 2016 #43

Who cares? Recursion Feb 2016 #55

Bring back defined benefits pensions eridani Feb 2016 #62

God no. They're a horrible idea. Look at how badly they screwed workers over. Recursion Feb 2016 #63

My defined benefits pension has saved my ass in retirement eridani Feb 2016 #64

Hey, if you trust a corporation with your retirement, go for it Recursion Feb 2016 #65

Investing in the stock market also involves trusting in corporaqtions n/t eridani Feb 2016 #66

It involves trusting an entire set of markets, yes Recursion Feb 2016 #67

Which can go down the tubes as in 2007 eridani Feb 2016 #68

Which is why you slowly move out of equities starting in your 40s Recursion Feb 2016 #69

Apples and Oranges One_Life_To_Give Feb 2016 #71