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whatthehey

(3,660 posts)
26. There's a lot going on here, with various drivers
Tue Feb 23, 2016, 11:24 AM
Feb 2016

Black workers have overall lower rates of pay than whites, making it harder to save if that pay is on the cusp of livability to begin with (which is not as universal as claimed on DU, but not rare sadly).

However contrary to implications above, 401k access is very widespread, among workers at all levels. To be sure truly small few-person companies don't have one very often, but low pay/skill jobs are no bar. McDonalds for example has a very good 401k benefit, open to all. Overall 80% of FT US workers could have access to retirement savings via employers But far fewer take advantage. Is there a racial difference here? There was a few years ago in 2007, even equalized for income and education. Not sure of changes, but likely still sn issue.

The survey found that the average savings for blacks Americans earning $50,000 or more a year is $48,000, compared with $100,000 for whites with the same incomes and educational backgrounds. And while 76 percent of whites invest in stocks or stock mutual funds, only 57 percent of black investors do.

So here we see, through either financial conservatism or other cultural differences, a significant black/white shift even among the middle class. The same study goes on to show that whites choose a greater number and diversity in funds in which to invest, spreading risk and maximizing gain. Why the difference? Tempting to blame education funding, but tony white schools ignore finacial literacy too usually. Generational examples? 401ks may be a bit new for that to be a big deal specifically, although more inferential examples are plausible. Culktural norms and priorities? Possible, but notoriously hard to quantify.

The lower than optimal use of 401ks is a crying shame with many causes too. Yes some people are on the bleeding edge and cannot spare a pretax dime, but bars and restaurants are full in areas the 1% don't even know exist, cell phones costing as much as I, decidedly upper-middle as I am, put into my 401k every month sell by the millions with new ones every year, and name brand clothing is the norm on streets at any income level. There is some responsibility here, among people of all ethnicities. The difference between buying Nike trainers and generics, or an iPhone 6+ compared to a Huawei ripoff, or a couple fewer beers or shots every trip to the bar, invested pretax with an employer match, using the most basic and broad of very low index funds requiring zero personal finacial acumen, and then left alone (here another of the legendary DU double standards comes in. People who advise investing are routinewy scolded that the average working man is not a financial genius, but then the same scolders proudly assert the sense of trying to be a financial genius and cash out as markets fluctuate. Just leave the fucking money in an index fund and no "bankster" will steal it in down markets!) would build up over a working life to a level far exceeding the current average.

The badmouthing of investing in this and other social media is a great injury to the people who need investments most. From inane prattle about the "rigged casino", which has generated consistent compound growth over any appreciable period for well over a century for investors of all income levels, to lurid claims of funds "stolen" when idiots panic and sell in down markets, to fanciful nonsense about fees taking all the gains, scare those with limited financial acumen from taking free money from their employers and leveraging the advantages of tax deferral.

Again I will post the guaranteed ways to benefit from 401ks and the like. There are 3 rules that a 6th grader could easily follow.

1. Pay in as much as you can afford to, but at least as much as your employer will offer a match for. Not doing the latter is like turning down a freely offered typically 3-6% pay increase.

2. Invest in broad index funds. Your selections will list names and descriptions and performance history. Unless you have a decent grasp of the markets don't try to outguess the overall. Look for things like Russell 2000 index or SP500 index. Put most of your money in them, then spread around the rest. As you get older, move more into bond funds.

3. Leave the fucking thing alone, except for moving slowly more and more into bonds. Never sell or cash out preretirement unless homelessness or starvation or death are the alternatives. Really important here. I would live in my car on Taco Bell before I'd sell my retirement funds. The people who lose are those who sell or stop contributing when the market is down. If you can afford it that's the time to INcrease your contributions, buying more shares with the same $$. If you can't then so be it but never ever ever sell 401ks etc in crashes. If you happened to hit retirement in, say, 2008, then sell as slowly and as little as you can, starting with the bond funds.


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I'd be interested to see the spread in those retirement accounts within the white population. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #1
What's five times zero? hobbit709 Feb 2016 #2
The switch to 401(k)s hurts everyone, but black people still take the brunt of it n/t eridani Feb 2016 #3
How does people saving their own money hurt others? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #5
Not having a defined benefits pension hurts people who don't make enough to save n/t eridani Feb 2016 #6
Many jobs do not offer 401(k)s. It's an incentive offered by employers to attract workers. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #10
Many jobs don't offer defined benefit pensions either eridani Feb 2016 #14
Okay, but that's not an unfairness issue. That's employers not being able to offer a benefit. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #15
By choosing shareholders over employees n/t eridani Feb 2016 #17
Not to draw too fine a point but 401(k) accounts are investments, making employees shareholders. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #25
And defined pension plans are massive collective investments making the Plan giant shareholders Bluenorthwest Feb 2016 #32
Yeah, right. The 1% own most shares eridani Feb 2016 #36
There's over $18 trillion in retirement accounts, only $5 trillion of which are in IRAs Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #37
You mean the people who have less than $5000 in savings will have hurt feefees? eridani Feb 2016 #38
What do you propose should happen to the $15 trillion in invested retirement accounts? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #39
What percentage of this is actually in the stock market? n/t eridani Feb 2016 #40
Around 60%; so, around $9 trillion. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #44
How nice for the top 10% who own 90% of stock market value eridani Feb 2016 #45
Again, it's not the 1% who are invested in 401(k)s. They don't need them. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #46
The top 10% is NOT the middle class eridani Feb 2016 #47
I didn't say the top 10% is middle class; I said the middle class are the ones invested in 401(k)s. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #48
I see. we hve no choice but to play the game the way our owners want us to. eridani Feb 2016 #49
What are your plans for $9 trillion in operating capital? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #50
Invest it in Social Security. eridani Feb 2016 #51
So, you would rip $9 trillion out of the operating finances of companies and Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #52
The OP was about how things got much worse for people when defined-- eridani Feb 2016 #54
"Companies don't just let funds reserved for those pensions sit there" Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2016 #60
And I bet social security wouldnt get a dime Travis_0004 Feb 2016 #70
Nonsense. Adrahil Feb 2016 #73
There a re problems with defined benefit plans.... Adrahil Feb 2016 #72
My uncle's union pension disappeared last year... meaculpa2011 Feb 2016 #74
Yep GummyBearz Feb 2016 #75
I'm betting that among white people Bettie Feb 2016 #4
I wonder how much of that is driven by having a culture... TipTok Feb 2016 #7
I'd say it's driven by not having money n/t eridani Feb 2016 #8
... KentuckyWoman Feb 2016 #11
That's part of it... TipTok Feb 2016 #13
Wealth is generational gollygee Feb 2016 #33
Therein lies the answer to why Bernie's campaign doesn't resonate with blacks WhaTHellsgoingonhere Feb 2016 #9
Sanders has consistently been against the policies that cause the disparities eridani Feb 2016 #12
Black voters have specific needs and issues. My policies "raise all boats" doesn't speak to them WhaTHellsgoingonhere Feb 2016 #18
Yes--she speaks to them by calling black youth "superpredators" eridani Feb 2016 #19
Water under the bridge. WhaTHellsgoingonhere Feb 2016 #23
. . . and since the average 401k has less than $15,000 . . . . HughBeaumont Feb 2016 #16
Because companies got rid of pensions. alarimer Feb 2016 #20
I don't even get why were suckered into thinking this would work. HughBeaumont Feb 2016 #24
gee, thank goodness the aa vote is going to someone who will really help them restorefreedom Feb 2016 #21
Not this one bigwillq Feb 2016 #22
There's a lot going on here, with various drivers whatthehey Feb 2016 #26
I can tell Trajan Feb 2016 #28
Whatevs. Tata. whatthehey Feb 2016 #30
Where I used to work the match was up to 6% paid every payday. Nice because it compounded LiberalArkie Feb 2016 #34
This is solid advice! GOLGO 13 Feb 2016 #35
People in jobs without such plans can just go fuck themselves, presumably n/t eridani Feb 2016 #42
Well, no, there are plenty of individual retirement account services Recursion Feb 2016 #56
Which is ever so helpful to people who don't have anything left over after expenses eridani Feb 2016 #58
Whatever Recursion Feb 2016 #61
In my last quarter from Oct- end of Dec 2015 GOLGO 13 Feb 2016 #77
What about the people who can't afford to pay anything in? n/t eridani Feb 2016 #41
It's a pretty miniscule population that literally can't afford to put *anything* in Recursion Feb 2016 #53
No, it's the majority of the population eridani Feb 2016 #57
And nearly all of them could have afforded to save more Recursion Feb 2016 #59
Many of us who are unemployed now because of "guest worker" contractization of our work force cascadiance Feb 2016 #76
Well then……… Color me black MagickMuffin Feb 2016 #27
What group of white washed BS ? Trajan Feb 2016 #29
It was my attempt at a joke since I don't have a 401K MagickMuffin Feb 2016 #31
90% of the value of the stock market is held by the top 10% eridani Feb 2016 #43
Who cares? Recursion Feb 2016 #55
Bring back defined benefits pensions eridani Feb 2016 #62
God no. They're a horrible idea. Look at how badly they screwed workers over. Recursion Feb 2016 #63
My defined benefits pension has saved my ass in retirement eridani Feb 2016 #64
Hey, if you trust a corporation with your retirement, go for it Recursion Feb 2016 #65
Investing in the stock market also involves trusting in corporaqtions n/t eridani Feb 2016 #66
It involves trusting an entire set of markets, yes Recursion Feb 2016 #67
Which can go down the tubes as in 2007 eridani Feb 2016 #68
Which is why you slowly move out of equities starting in your 40s Recursion Feb 2016 #69
Apples and Oranges One_Life_To_Give Feb 2016 #71
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