God no. They're a horrible idea. Look at how badly they screwed workers over. (Reply #63)

In the discussion thread: White workers have nearly five times as much wealth in retirement accounts as black workers [View all]

Response to eridani (Reply #62)

Thu Feb 25, 2016, 06:58 AM

Recursion (56,419 posts)

63. God no. They're a horrible idea. Look at how badly they screwed workers over.

Can you even count the number of times a company has defaulted on its pension obligations, punted to PBGC, and PBGC has had to reduce benefits?

Count me out. It's as bad an idea as putting your money in your employer's stock; actually a little worse because your company can't deliberately tank its stock like it can its pensions.

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77 replies	Author	Time	Post
White workers have nearly five times as much wealth in retirement accounts as black workers [View all]	eridani	Feb 2016	OP
I'd be interested to see the spread in those retirement accounts within the white population.	Erich Bloodaxe BSN	Feb 2016	#1
What's five times zero?	hobbit709	Feb 2016	#2
The switch to 401(k)s hurts everyone, but black people still take the brunt of it n/t	eridani	Feb 2016	#3
How does people saving their own money hurt others?	Nuclear Unicorn	Feb 2016	#5
Not having a defined benefits pension hurts people who don't make enough to save n/t	eridani	Feb 2016	#6
Many jobs do not offer 401(k)s. It's an incentive offered by employers to attract workers.	Nuclear Unicorn	Feb 2016	#10
Many jobs don't offer defined benefit pensions either	eridani	Feb 2016	#14
Okay, but that's not an unfairness issue. That's employers not being able to offer a benefit.	Nuclear Unicorn	Feb 2016	#15
By choosing shareholders over employees n/t	eridani	Feb 2016	#17
Not to draw too fine a point but 401(k) accounts are investments, making employees shareholders.	Nuclear Unicorn	Feb 2016	#25
And defined pension plans are massive collective investments making the Plan giant shareholders	Bluenorthwest	Feb 2016	#32
Yeah, right. The 1% own most shares	eridani	Feb 2016	#36
There's over $18 trillion in retirement accounts, only $5 trillion of which are in IRAs	Nuclear Unicorn	Feb 2016	#37
You mean the people who have less than $5000 in savings will have hurt feefees?	eridani	Feb 2016	#38
What do you propose should happen to the $15 trillion in invested retirement accounts?	Nuclear Unicorn	Feb 2016	#39
What percentage of this is actually in the stock market? n/t	eridani	Feb 2016	#40
Around 60%; so, around $9 trillion.	Nuclear Unicorn	Feb 2016	#44
How nice for the top 10% who own 90% of stock market value	eridani	Feb 2016	#45
Again, it's not the 1% who are invested in 401(k)s. They don't need them.	Nuclear Unicorn	Feb 2016	#46
The top 10% is NOT the middle class	eridani	Feb 2016	#47
I didn't say the top 10% is middle class; I said the middle class are the ones invested in 401(k)s.	Nuclear Unicorn	Feb 2016	#48
I see. we hve no choice but to play the game the way our owners want us to.	eridani	Feb 2016	#49
What are your plans for $9 trillion in operating capital?	Nuclear Unicorn	Feb 2016	#50
Invest it in Social Security.	eridani	Feb 2016	#51
So, you would rip $9 trillion out of the operating finances of companies and	Nuclear Unicorn	Feb 2016	#52
The OP was about how things got much worse for people when defined--	eridani	Feb 2016	#54
"Companies don't just let funds reserved for those pensions sit there"	Nuclear Unicorn	Feb 2016	#60
And I bet social security wouldnt get a dime	Travis_0004	Feb 2016	#70
Nonsense.	Adrahil	Feb 2016	#73
There a re problems with defined benefit plans....	Adrahil	Feb 2016	#72
My uncle's union pension disappeared last year...	meaculpa2011	Feb 2016	#74
Yep	GummyBearz	Feb 2016	#75
I'm betting that among white people	Bettie	Feb 2016	#4
I wonder how much of that is driven by having a culture...	TipTok	Feb 2016	#7
I'd say it's driven by not having money n/t	eridani	Feb 2016	#8
...	KentuckyWoman	Feb 2016	#11
That's part of it...	TipTok	Feb 2016	#13
Wealth is generational	gollygee	Feb 2016	#33
Therein lies the answer to why Bernie's campaign doesn't resonate with blacks	WhaTHellsgoingonhere	Feb 2016	#9
Sanders has consistently been against the policies that cause the disparities	eridani	Feb 2016	#12
Black voters have specific needs and issues. My policies "raise all boats" doesn't speak to them	WhaTHellsgoingonhere	Feb 2016	#18
Yes--she speaks to them by calling black youth "superpredators"	eridani	Feb 2016	#19
Water under the bridge.	WhaTHellsgoingonhere	Feb 2016	#23
. . . and since the average 401k has less than $15,000 . . . .	HughBeaumont	Feb 2016	#16
Because companies got rid of pensions.	alarimer	Feb 2016	#20
I don't even get why were suckered into thinking this would work.	HughBeaumont	Feb 2016	#24
gee, thank goodness the aa vote is going to someone who will really help them	restorefreedom	Feb 2016	#21
Not this one	bigwillq	Feb 2016	#22
There's a lot going on here, with various drivers	whatthehey	Feb 2016	#26
I can tell	Trajan	Feb 2016	#28
Whatevs. Tata.	whatthehey	Feb 2016	#30
Where I used to work the match was up to 6% paid every payday. Nice because it compounded	LiberalArkie	Feb 2016	#34
This is solid advice!	GOLGO 13	Feb 2016	#35
People in jobs without such plans can just go fuck themselves, presumably n/t	eridani	Feb 2016	#42
Well, no, there are plenty of individual retirement account services	Recursion	Feb 2016	#56
Which is ever so helpful to people who don't have anything left over after expenses	eridani	Feb 2016	#58
Whatever	Recursion	Feb 2016	#61
In my last quarter from Oct- end of Dec 2015	GOLGO 13	Feb 2016	#77
What about the people who can't afford to pay anything in? n/t	eridani	Feb 2016	#41
It's a pretty miniscule population that literally can't afford to put anything in	Recursion	Feb 2016	#53
No, it's the majority of the population	eridani	Feb 2016	#57
And nearly all of them could have afforded to save more	Recursion	Feb 2016	#59
Many of us who are unemployed now because of "guest worker" contractization of our work force	cascadiance	Feb 2016	#76
Well then……… Color me black	MagickMuffin	Feb 2016	#27
What group of white washed BS ?	Trajan	Feb 2016	#29
It was my attempt at a joke since I don't have a 401K	MagickMuffin	Feb 2016	#31
90% of the value of the stock market is held by the top 10%	eridani	Feb 2016	#43
Who cares?	Recursion	Feb 2016	#55
Bring back defined benefits pensions	eridani	Feb 2016	#62
God no. They're a horrible idea. Look at how badly they screwed workers over.	Recursion	Feb 2016	#63
My defined benefits pension has saved my ass in retirement	eridani	Feb 2016	#64
Hey, if you trust a corporation with your retirement, go for it	Recursion	Feb 2016	#65
Investing in the stock market also involves trusting in corporaqtions n/t	eridani	Feb 2016	#66
It involves trusting an entire set of markets, yes	Recursion	Feb 2016	#67
Which can go down the tubes as in 2007	eridani	Feb 2016	#68
Which is why you slowly move out of equities starting in your 40s	Recursion	Feb 2016	#69
Apples and Oranges	One_Life_To_Give	Feb 2016	#71

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