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EdwardBernays

(3,343 posts)
43. what you're talking about
Thu Feb 25, 2016, 11:41 AM
Feb 2016

is taxes.

The problem with that is that basing an economy on taxes requires consumers which require jobs.

Long term the unemployment rate is boing to be MUCH higher, because so much of the work currently being done will be replaced by automation and robotics. That's what the industry is pushing for and that's what's happening.

If you are sitting at a desk, driving a taxi or carrying a hod, stop for a moment and ask: could a robot or machine do this job better?

The answer, unfortunately for you, is probably - yes.

The debate about whether machines will eliminate the need for human employment is no longer just academic.

Boston Consulting Group predicts that by 2025, up to a quarter of jobs will be replaced by either smart software or robots, while a study from Oxford University has suggested that 35% of existing UK jobs are at risk of automation in the next 20 years.


http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-33327659

So if 1/3 or 1/4 jobs disappear in the next few decades, the tax base will shrink close to exponentially in that same time period.

And this is not just a western phenomena:

In China’s factories, the robots are rising.

For decades, manufacturers employed young migrant workers from the countryside to work at countless factories in coastal provinces, churning out cheap toys, clothing and electronics that helped power the country’s economic ascent.

Now factories are rapidly replacing those workers with automation, a pivot that is encouraged by rising wages and new official directives aimed at helping the country move away from low-cost manufacturing as the supply of pliant young workers shrinks.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/09/27/business/tech/robot-revolution-rises-china-factories/

And in small factories:

Robots Work Their Way Into Small Factories

A new breed of so-called collaborative machines—designed to work alongside people in close settings—is changing the way some of America's smaller manufacturers do their jobs.

The machines, priced as low as $20,000, provide such companies—small jewelry makers and toy makers among them—with new incentives to automate to increase overall productivity and lower labor costs.

At Panek Precision Inc., a Northbrook, Ill., machine shop, 21 shiny new robots hum as they place metal parts into cutting machines and remove the parts after they are done. It's a tedious and oily task once handled by machine operators who earn about $16.50 an hour.

One new robot doubled the output from a machine that was previously operated by a worker "because robots work overnight and don't take lunch breaks and they just keep going," says Gregg Panek, the company's president. In some cases, the robots, which are single articulated arms, can even hold a part while it's getting cut since there is no danger of injury.


http://www.wsj.com/articles/robots-work-their-way-into-small-factories-1410979100

And it's not just in manufacturing, but also in the service industry:

McDonald's is rolling out self-service kiosks in restaurants across the US that allow customers to order and pay for their food without ever having to interact with a human.

Some people suspect that the technology is also meant to eventually replace staff as McDonald's franchisees start to worry about rising labor costs.

Bennigan's CEO Paul Mangiamele said in a recent interview that McDonald's kiosks — as well as self-service technologies at other chains like Panera and TGI Fridays — are a direct response to rising labor costs and calls for a higher minimum wage.


"Many, many concepts ... are going to kiosks because we have to address, somehow, the rising costs of operating in our businesses," Mangiamele told Fox Business.


http://uk.businessinsider.com/what-self-serve-kiosks-at-mcdonalds-mean-for-cashiers-2015-8?r=US&IR=T

All of this is being driven by the corporate mindset that growth is the only goal. And that mindset is not going to change any time soon. The rise of automation, as difficult as it may be to accept, is not only real, it's accelerating quickly. These are not classroom predictions, it's something that exists already and is just accelerating.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Who cares about jobs when the "efficiency of companies" is at stake? arcane1 Feb 2016 #1
So how do we cope with this? ghostsinthemachine Feb 2016 #2
Well EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #5
Wow, thanks a lot ghostsinthemachine Feb 2016 #7
Love the video... ghostsinthemachine Feb 2016 #9
That video EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #10
It won't be in 50 years, it will be much sooner. wilsonbooks Feb 2016 #35
I think it will be 50 years before people wake the fuck up ghostsinthemachine Feb 2016 #108
Not to mention the satisfaction a job well done can bring. LisaM Feb 2016 #8
Well..... EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #11
It will move to a jobless society. I studied that eons ago in college economics. The professor RKP5637 Feb 2016 #54
I think you're probably right EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #57
Because the perps and the 1% have no souls, in every single sense. WinkyDink Feb 2016 #16
If you don't know the answer to what lies after work... TampaAnimusVortex Feb 2016 #20
Okay..... LisaM Feb 2016 #21
A comprehensive welfare state and shorter hours are the solution killbotfactory Feb 2016 #55
Guaranteed Minimum Income. Jester Messiah Feb 2016 #60
Interesting...my son is an electrician apprentice adigal Feb 2016 #62
Humans consume a lot and produce very little especially in the 3rd world 951-Riverside Feb 2016 #70
Why would a reduction plan be necessary? The issue is political, rather than just a question... Humanist_Activist Feb 2016 #90
Well, we do have Kissinger, who refers to the unemployed poor PatrickforO Feb 2016 #80
We need to focus on technologies and policies that provide everyone with a base quality of life. phleshdef Feb 2016 #99
They will replace rich people RobertEarl Feb 2016 #3
What functions would the rich person replacement robot perform? Zing Zing Zingbah Feb 2016 #18
Actually ... Displace ... thanks for the question RobertEarl Feb 2016 #19
Which is (in part) a good thing Albertoo Feb 2016 #4
I'm sure having no job is better. *sarcasm* WinkyDink Feb 2016 #17
Luddites thought weaving machines meant the end of employment Albertoo Feb 2016 #22
Or maybe the power to choose their own employment The2ndWheel Feb 2016 #42
The historical trend isn't that Albertoo Feb 2016 #47
As you say, good is a subjective word The2ndWheel Feb 2016 #56
Well, you're right, of course Albertoo Feb 2016 #83
Albertoo olddots Feb 2016 #78
I'm personally exited to welcome our new robot overlords. Glassunion Feb 2016 #6
i agree i willl do whatever they want us to do. (hopes AI reading this in 5 years believes me) nt JanMichael Feb 2016 #28
Sure... whatever. Zing Zing Zingbah Feb 2016 #12
Many many many EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #14
It's already started with politicians — the Rubiobot is already out there. brush Feb 2016 #27
This is a very worrisome development. These are jobs needed by people WHO MADE ME A DEMOCRAT. WinkyDink Feb 2016 #13
It's inevitable EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #15
It's always been about distribution of wealth. What has technology got to do with it? hunter Feb 2016 #23
The o0nly problem is that robots don't buy anything Sam_Fields Feb 2016 #24
not necessarily true EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #25
Computers will boost productivity leading to the abelenkpe Feb 2016 #26
Someday robots will do anything we can do. And there is no stopping it. nt Logical Feb 2016 #29
So, how long until Atlas turns into this? backscatter712 Feb 2016 #30
…so line up at the suicide booths, everybody. Meat bags are so yesterday librechik Feb 2016 #31
I would like to see a bunch of them 15 to 20 stories in the air, putting metal decking on a Ghost in the Machine Feb 2016 #32
there are already several on the market RedRocco Feb 2016 #34
I'm glad I'm old.... n/t PasadenaTrudy Feb 2016 #33
What? Type louder and slower, please. ChairmanAgnostic Feb 2016 #59
I watched part of that video. kentauros Feb 2016 #36
Well... EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #37
I disagree on it lowering prices. kentauros Feb 2016 #39
what you're talking about EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #43
Well, I'm not reading any of that. kentauros Feb 2016 #46
umm... EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #48
As niche markets, I'm sure human run and operated businesses have a place... Humanist_Activist Feb 2016 #38
Again: cost. kentauros Feb 2016 #40
robots EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #45
And the small business owner is not what you seem to think it is. kentauros Feb 2016 #49
here's where that falls down EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #50
I get the impression you haven't talked to many small business owners. kentauros Feb 2016 #51
I am a small business owner EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #52
Well, I've both talked to many and worked for many. kentauros Feb 2016 #64
I don't think everything will be wonderful EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #71
Perhaps small businesses think that way in Europe, kentauros Feb 2016 #74
Like with Walmart EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #75
Except, I'm not talking about small businesses competing with big businesses. kentauros Feb 2016 #82
Obviously EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #107
Plenty will still be around by 2050. kentauros Feb 2016 #109
Part of the pleasure of going out to eat, or getting a coffee1 adigal Feb 2016 #63
That is a big factor, kentauros Feb 2016 #66
That's hardly universal whatthehey Feb 2016 #100
That machine, at 50 grand, will be cheaper than a human and pay for itself... Humanist_Activist Feb 2016 #65
Some businesses will embrace their use. kentauros Feb 2016 #68
That's a blanket claim that will prove untrue, I'm sure. There will be some... Humanist_Activist Feb 2016 #76
It's a blanket statement based on how a majority of people think. kentauros Feb 2016 #84
I'm laughing that anyone thinks anything positive is going to happen as a result of mass automation. HughBeaumont Feb 2016 #41
You're missing the point EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #44
See, you're coming from an idealist perspective that American power brokers are reasonable. HughBeaumont Feb 2016 #85
Not at all. jeff47 Feb 2016 #89
This this 100 times this EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #93
Yeah . . . better let their military and police know ahead of time. HughBeaumont Feb 2016 #103
Like always EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #105
This is so obviously happening PasadenaTrudy Feb 2016 #87
So will robots be assembling robots? Manufacturing their parts? closeupready Feb 2016 #53
Do you think people will stop trying to make that happen? The2ndWheel Feb 2016 #58
indeed... although we could put restrictions on it much like we do for human gene engineering Fast Walker 52 Feb 2016 #61
There are a lot of things human beings have tried to make illegal The2ndWheel Feb 2016 #72
this is true... still, it seems obvious that we should enact some restrictions on what robots can do Fast Walker 52 Feb 2016 #77
This is what I know, I know that there will always be a need for manual labor. closeupready Feb 2016 #69
Just another limit we'll try and get around The2ndWheel Feb 2016 #81
I'm not sure if I agree entirely, but your last paragraph is very true. closeupready Feb 2016 #86
Actually yes, why would humans be more suited for that. Humanist_Activist Feb 2016 #67
Will robots be doing inventory, intake? In Pixar cartoons, it seems so easy. closeupready Feb 2016 #73
Actually I would expect they would, as long as they are capable of manipulating... Humanist_Activist Feb 2016 #79
Why not? jeff47 Feb 2016 #94
It's funny sometimes here in discussions about physical reality, closeupready Feb 2016 #95
What limit of physical reality prevents robots from assembling robot parts and other robots? jeff47 Feb 2016 #96
Robots are things. Things fall apart. Therefore, closeupready Feb 2016 #97
And when a robot falls apart, other robots can repair or replace it. jeff47 Feb 2016 #98
For one thing, access to natural resources can be an insurmountable physical limit closeupready Feb 2016 #104
The solar system has a lot of resources. jeff47 Feb 2016 #106
"We already have people 3D printing 3D printers. " This is like the lady on the Land O Lakes Butter bettyellen Feb 2016 #110
"It's a huge societal issue with jobs" KamaAina Feb 2016 #88
Hell if it can do manual work, surely it could replace office workers too! B Calm Feb 2016 #91
Close to the end of manual labor? Meh. Oneironaut Feb 2016 #92
Skynet begins. Initech Feb 2016 #101
I can get behind this. Deadshot Feb 2016 #102
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