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In reply to the discussion: Altered Genes, Twisted Truth: How the Venture to Genetically Engineer Our Food Has Subverted Science [View all]drokhole
(1,230 posts)160. THE COMPLEX NATURE OF GMOS CALLS FOR A NEW CONVERSATION
THE COMPLEX NATURE OF GMOS CALLS FOR A NEW CONVERSATION
from Ensia

October 7, 2015 The GMO debate is one from which Ive kept a purposeful distance.
For one thing, its an issue that has already garnered more than its fair share of attention. For another, when you consider that many domesticated crops resulted from seed irradiation, chromosome doubling and plant tissue culture none of which are genetically engineered the boundaries of natural are more porous than they initially appear.
But I study seed science and policy, in which genetically engineered organisms more often referred to as genetically modified organisms, aka GMOs are pervasive, so its an issue I cannot ignore. Most recently, the director of a science communications program asked if I could engage her students on a few topics: Is there a scientific consensus on GMOs? How is the media doing when it comes to covering biotech in the food system? Where are the biases and blind spots in reporting?
Swapping emails, we discussed the retraction of a study on golden rice, a Slate feature calling the war against GMOs full of fearmongering, errors, and fraud, and the infamous tangle among Vandana Shiva, David Remnick and Michael Specter in the aftermath of Seeds of Doubt, a critical New Yorker profile of Shivas crusade against genetically modified crops. (Read Shivas response to the profile, and Remnicks counter response.) Anyone who examines these stories will appreciate the thicket of fact, interpretation and framing that makes the GMO terrain explosive.
Let me begin with a frank admission: I am a proponent of agroecology, food sovereignty, and the rights of farmers to save and reproduce their seed. But I am not anti-GMO. In agreement with my colleagues at various universities and non-governmental organizations, I believe that some GM crops could have some benefits. What I object to is a lack of complex evaluations of the technology, the overzealous selling of its benefits and the framing of cautionary skeptics as anti-science scaremongers. The tendency to treat GMOs in isolation from their historical, social and political contexts is also of no help: The technology was developed as a tool to enhance the scope and scale of industrial agriculture. I dont argue that GMOs cannot be and never will be extricated from that context, but that discussion is very different from the more common debate about health benefits or risks.
Why do the merits or demerits of GMOs grab more headline space than systemic food and agriculture concerns? Can we get past what Jonathan Foley calls the silver bullet and reductionist thinking on this issue? As a molecular biologist turned science journalist turned social scientist, Ive been puzzling over these questions for some 15 years. What Ive come to realize is that GMO stories point to deeper struggles over how science is conducted, interpreted and deployed in the arena of sustainable food.
...more at http://ensia.com/voices/the-complex-nature-of-gmos-calls-for-a-new-conversation/
from Ensia

October 7, 2015 The GMO debate is one from which Ive kept a purposeful distance.
For one thing, its an issue that has already garnered more than its fair share of attention. For another, when you consider that many domesticated crops resulted from seed irradiation, chromosome doubling and plant tissue culture none of which are genetically engineered the boundaries of natural are more porous than they initially appear.
But I study seed science and policy, in which genetically engineered organisms more often referred to as genetically modified organisms, aka GMOs are pervasive, so its an issue I cannot ignore. Most recently, the director of a science communications program asked if I could engage her students on a few topics: Is there a scientific consensus on GMOs? How is the media doing when it comes to covering biotech in the food system? Where are the biases and blind spots in reporting?
Swapping emails, we discussed the retraction of a study on golden rice, a Slate feature calling the war against GMOs full of fearmongering, errors, and fraud, and the infamous tangle among Vandana Shiva, David Remnick and Michael Specter in the aftermath of Seeds of Doubt, a critical New Yorker profile of Shivas crusade against genetically modified crops. (Read Shivas response to the profile, and Remnicks counter response.) Anyone who examines these stories will appreciate the thicket of fact, interpretation and framing that makes the GMO terrain explosive.
Let me begin with a frank admission: I am a proponent of agroecology, food sovereignty, and the rights of farmers to save and reproduce their seed. But I am not anti-GMO. In agreement with my colleagues at various universities and non-governmental organizations, I believe that some GM crops could have some benefits. What I object to is a lack of complex evaluations of the technology, the overzealous selling of its benefits and the framing of cautionary skeptics as anti-science scaremongers. The tendency to treat GMOs in isolation from their historical, social and political contexts is also of no help: The technology was developed as a tool to enhance the scope and scale of industrial agriculture. I dont argue that GMOs cannot be and never will be extricated from that context, but that discussion is very different from the more common debate about health benefits or risks.
Why do the merits or demerits of GMOs grab more headline space than systemic food and agriculture concerns? Can we get past what Jonathan Foley calls the silver bullet and reductionist thinking on this issue? As a molecular biologist turned science journalist turned social scientist, Ive been puzzling over these questions for some 15 years. What Ive come to realize is that GMO stories point to deeper struggles over how science is conducted, interpreted and deployed in the arena of sustainable food.
...more at http://ensia.com/voices/the-complex-nature-of-gmos-calls-for-a-new-conversation/
One of the most comprehensive I've come across, but added to it a bit of a lengthy response/addition:
Yes! It's stuff like this that the myopic/hyper-focus on GM overshadows and blocks out from the debate. Its become less about the problem (drought, yield, pest and disease-resistance, nutritional content, etc...), and almost exclusively about the wonders of GMOs. They can't tease apart the "wonders" (which are simply the idealized solution...which often times does still ignore the greater environmental context) from the GMO. Proponents forget, the purpose shouldn't be to cheer lead GMOs, it's about better addressing and resolving these issues - and they fail to question (or investigate) whether GMOs are the best way to achieve those results.
For example, they think they can simply splice in a gene to make a crop drought resistant, rather than, say, building porous soil rich in organic matter that increases rates of water absorption and leads to vastly larger stores of water retained (particular in times of low rainfall) - which itself often includes mixed stocking of crops and animals (among a host of other techniques). Or that pest resistance again comes down to adding another gene, rather than building the plants own existing defenses (again, through a robust soil teeming with biodiversity) and attracting and encouraging beneficial predators with a healthy and biodiverse landscape. It actually speaks largely to an all-too-common reductionist (not to mention "gene-centric"
Here, mycologist Paul Stamets describes one such relationship between a grass, mychorriza fungi, and a virus that allows the grass to grow and thrive in an environment with extreme temperatures (should be cued up around 23:42...if it isn't, skip ahead to that time):
Paul Stamets and John B. Wells - Mushrooms & Environment
?t=23m42s
You can't just genetically modify that into existence, you have to foster the relationship. It, in my opinion, is a much more advanced science/technique than the myopic "gene for every mean" approach. Which is why it's not only disingenuous, but exceedingly patronizing and insulting, for people like the NYT's Amy Harmon to throw around "anti-science" accusations and seedy equivocations. It not only falsely frames the terms of the debate (thus cementing positions and automatically granting one side an imagined intellectual high-ground), it ignores good science itself:
Organic agriculture: deeply rooted in science and ecology
Like farmer Joel Salatin says:
"Of course I think Im using science, but so does Monsanto. And so the question is whose science will be used as a regulatory foundation and enforcement action? It won't be pasture-based livestock, compost and symbiosis through multispeciation. It will be further animal abuse, chemicals and pathogen-friendly protocols."
Further, problems like malnutrition (like Vitamin-A deficiency) involve a myriad of issues, including the physical (involving a broader lack of a complex of dietary fats and nutrients...which are actually required for proper absorption of Vitamin A) and the socio-politico-economical. GM-opia ignores the scope of the issues and smacks of simplistic solutionism.
Final thought, I'd even challenge the thought that "most" of the GMOs are safe to eat. Particularly those that exist in actual fact today. Reason being, almost no thought (and certainly hardly any study, particularly from the industry) has gone into considering the effects of these foods on our microbiome - those trillions of bacteria and other micro-organisms that live on and within our bodies (a large portion of which are in the gut), that are crucial in not only keeping us healthy but alive in the first place. One reason for this is we are only beginning to discover, realize, and appreciate just how crucial these critters are to health and well-being, with functions ranging from digesting and deriving nutrients in our food, to fighting off pathogens and regulating/boosting our immune-system. In fact, it is those very bugs in our guts we have to worry about when it comes to GMOs - not only when it comes to the chemical pesticides that the plants are engineered to withstand, but especially those "modified" with Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) within the plant itself. Plenty of our "modern" disease epidemics seem to be rooted in inflammation stemming from gut/GI issues...and it could very well be that these "foods"/ingredients derived from them are contributing to that problem in large degree (and I seem to recall some preliminary findings hinting at such).
On a somewhat related (and equally fascinating) note, George Monbiot points out how - through a process dubbed "trophic cascade" - wolves can in fact change the course of rivers:
How Wolves Change Rivers
And, on a similar note, we see how "whales effect climate":
How Whales Change Climate
Also, the importance of keystone species like beavers:
The Plan to Make California Wet By Bringing Back Beavers
Scientists Acquire More Proof That Only Beavers Can Save the World
And starfish:
The Ecologist Who Threw Starfish
Additional material:
An Essential Citizens Guide to the Truth About GM Crops and Food
Using peer-reviewed studies and other documented evidence, GMO Myths and Truths deconstructs the false and misleading claims that are frequently made about the safety and efficacy of GM crops and foods. The book shows that far from being necessary to feed the world, GM crops are a risky distraction from the real causes of hunger. What is more, there is no reason to take this risk, since GM crops do not consistently raise yields, reduce pesticide use, or provide more nutritious food. GM crops and foods have not been shown to be safe to eat and both animal feeding studies and non-animal laboratory experiments indicate that some GM foods, as well as most of the chemicals required to produce them, are toxic. Fortunately, the book shows that there are effective and sustainable alternatives to GM that can ensure a safe and plentiful food supply for current and future populations. GMO Myths and Truths is an invaluable and easy-to-read resource for everyone, including students, scientists, and members of the general public.--David Schubert, PhD, Professor and Director, Cellular Neurobiology, Salk Institute for Biological Studies, La Jolla, California, USA
and
Genes, Organism, and Environment with Richard Lewontin
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Altered Genes, Twisted Truth: How the Venture to Genetically Engineer Our Food Has Subverted Science [View all]
nationalize the fed
Mar 2016
OP
There is a vast difference between plant breeding and gene splicing / genetic modification (GMOs).
PufPuf23
Mar 2016
#8
They also have genetic traits that prevent natural birth, and cause discomfort
immoderate
Mar 2016
#87
I am not aware of any place that has counteracted Vitamin A deficiencies with Golden Rice.
immoderate
Mar 2016
#105
You don't know about science. Stop speaking for it. Stop invoking ghosts. You don't know me.
immoderate
Mar 2016
#131
Can't even watch a video, eh? Your facts are in error or very misleading and cause me to ask who is
Kip Humphrey
Mar 2016
#66
"What would it take to change your position?" I'll start when my botonist wife informs me otherwise.
Kip Humphrey
Mar 2016
#72
Many university research is now either fully or partially funded by the industry who whants the
Dont call me Shirley
Mar 2016
#109
Long term animal feeding studies, the gold standard for demonstrating safety, do not exist.
proverbialwisdom
Mar 2016
#41
Check search engine at homepage of http://www.gmwatch.org/ for objective vetting of research/news.
proverbialwisdom
Mar 2016
#64
“Generation Rx” - it's all a big mystery. Food allergies affect 1 in 13 children in the US...
proverbialwisdom
Mar 2016
#97
Study suggests potential association between "soy formula" & seizures in children w autism (3/13/14)
proverbialwisdom
Mar 2016
#112
True. However, enough is unknown currently to justify caution, IMO. You may decide differently.(nt)
proverbialwisdom
Mar 2016
#126
All you gmo defenders can eat all the gmos you want, many of us make a choice not to. We have the
Dont call me Shirley
Mar 2016
#9
There are zero credible studies that show anything harmful or any adverse health effects
True Earthling
Mar 2016
#10
Don't blame GMO's...blame cigarettes, alcohol, poor diet & lack of exercise etc
True Earthling
Mar 2016
#15
Everyone knows that ingestion of cheese can lead to restless sleep. Especially, if the cheese...
yawnmaster
Mar 2016
#20
You are very wise to take those precautions if you are going to keep eating cheese. eom
yawnmaster
Mar 2016
#73
When you keep posting autism links, that is more than advocating for the Precautionary Principle.
progressoid
Mar 2016
#25
True, it's implicit: "...eat high nutrient density food; avoid junk food, allergens, toxicants..."
proverbialwisdom
Mar 2016
#161
FOOD ALLERGIES are sufficient. Pivot away from the rest if you choose not to be ahead of the curve.
proverbialwisdom
Mar 2016
#174
National Acad of Sciences: "genetic transformation has potential to produce unanticipated allergens"
proverbialwisdom
Mar 2016
#176
Just saw this -> 3/8/16: "USDA Called Out by 50 Groups for Censoring Science"
proverbialwisdom
Mar 2016
#179
Here's how retiring NVICP Special Master Denise K. Vowell stated it in Wright v HHS - 9/21/15 (ii).
proverbialwisdom
Mar 2016
#65
The feed lot studies you cite are not scientific. Those animals are raised on antibiotics.
immoderate
Mar 2016
#62
We al have the RIGHT TO KNOW how our food is grown, what is in it, what animals are fed, what
Dont call me Shirley
Mar 2016
#106
Why don't Druker and his buddies at the Maharishi Institute just meditate this problem away.
progressoid
Mar 2016
#17
Are the health outcomes comparable? Paraphrasing Springsteen,"It's hard to be a saint in the city."
proverbialwisdom
Mar 2016
#178
Sure, because the one sided book you keep harping on is the end all on the subject
Major Nikon
Mar 2016
#81
I'm merely observing that horde of "critics" on this thread has not read the book
AxionExcel
Mar 2016
#115
The OP specified the timeframe, and we sure see a nice drop after the 1990s too...
whatthehey
Mar 2016
#148
Either you are not understanding what I wrote or you are confused. Also see posts #3 and #8 above.
PufPuf23
Mar 2016
#158
When the usual suspects all say those who disagree are part of the conspiracy
Major Nikon
Mar 2016
#99
Top experts (Herbert, Mumper) recommend "a whole food diet that is as organic as possible."
proverbialwisdom
Mar 2016
#129
This is wrong - "GMOs aren't fundamentally different from traditional plant breeding"
PufPuf23
Mar 2016
#149
The fact that the poster doesn't know the reality about that "study" is astounding.
HuckleB
Mar 2016
#173