General Discussion

davidthegnome

(2,983 posts)

84. Not the point.

Tue Mar 22, 2016, 07:14 PM

Mar 2016

Whether ISIS acts through individuals or as a group... they are individuals - they do not represent the whole of the Muslim people, no more than Westboro Baptists represent the whole of Christianity. Their own interpretation of their religion may have plenty to do with it - but then you have the vast majority of Muslims, who do not behave that way. Once again - these are extremists and they are individuals . No group in it's entirety should (or even can) be held responsible for what some of it's members do. To suggest otherwise would lead you down a rather slippery slope, would it not?

I also did not say that religion had nothing to do with it. There are different ways one might interpret one's religion - the bible, for instance, is full of so many parables that they can be taken to mean a wide, wide variety of different things.

Yes, ISIS is an organization claiming to act on behalf of their religion... regardless of whether or not that religion, or the vast majority of it's followers actually want them to act on their behalf. Again... it is not ISLAM that is to blame, it is the individuals within the terrorist organization/s.

They are not doing things on behalf of their religion, they are doing things on behalf of their own interpretation of that religion... which is interpreted in many different ways by many different people. Philosophies, principles, many things come into play here, in addition to faith and/or zealotry.

Religion itself is an idea - not an action. Plenty of people use it as an excuse to commit terrible crimes - but that IS what it is - an excuse. An attempt to justify what cannot be justified rationally through using one's faith. It is wrong when anyone does it - but it is the individual and not the religion that is to blame.

As an agnostic - should I be held responsible for the actions of all agnostics everywhere? If I do terrible, cruel things... does that say something about agnosticism itself? Or just me?

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I know those who defend islam have there hearts in the right place [View all] agnostic102 Mar 2016 OP

It also comes back to "oil is murder," in oh so many ways... villager Mar 2016 #1

Islam is a religion of peace philosslayer Mar 2016 #2

99.99 percent of muslims agnostic102 Mar 2016 #6

I believe we are in violent agreement philosslayer Mar 2016 #12

I liked what someone on MSNBC said this morning. That ISIS is a cult. Just plane and simple Cult. LiberalArkie Mar 2016 #40

Abrahamic faiths aren't "religions of peace". None of them. linuxman Mar 2016 #10

Well... Duppers Mar 2016 #39

Today, in 2016... SylviaD Mar 2016 #49

What about THIS well funded group of Christians... PassingFair Mar 2016 #57

I don't think you read my post very well. linuxman Mar 2016 #67

And the Abrahamic monotheisms are the religions of patriarchy and misogyny. Arugula Latte Mar 2016 #102

That's the George W Bush view oberliner Mar 2016 #11

And President Obama's. philosslayer Mar 2016 #14

No More Cocktails? oberliner Mar 2016 #16

I have no idea what the source is philosslayer Mar 2016 #17

Fair enough oberliner Mar 2016 #23

Wait... philosslayer Mar 2016 #29

President Obama is much smarter than former President Bush oberliner Mar 2016 #30

^^^ this lastone Mar 2016 #46

And we saw that "peace" today. They did what their holy book told them to do. Oneironaut Mar 2016 #15

Religion is defined by its followers, not its texts Scootaloo Mar 2016 #77

But weren't the killers following their religion, then? Oneironaut Mar 2016 #105

+1 treestar Mar 2016 #25

Religion is inherently non-peaceful n/t Gore1FL Mar 2016 #42

Tell that to the people at Nickel Mines gratuitous Mar 2016 #62

Christians claim their God is a Filicidal bastard. Gore1FL Mar 2016 #71

So, no answer about Nickel Mines then? gratuitous Mar 2016 #72

Good people can be religious. Religion is evil, however. Christianity is not an exception Gore1FL Mar 2016 #73

+1 Jenny_92808 Mar 2016 #87

Yes. Militant violent Episcopalians are terrifying. Nye Bevan Mar 2016 #69

Their religion is violent. Gore1FL Mar 2016 #70

Yes, the Buddha was such a violent guy! Odin2005 Mar 2016 #94

Maybe he wasn't, but some Buddhists are violent assholes FrodosPet Mar 2016 #101

And if you think it is just a local thing, limited to Sri Lanka FrodosPet Mar 2016 #103

Religions are inherently evil. Gore1FL Mar 2016 #106

LOL - Way to play to stereotype. Someone might think you blm Mar 2016 #47

I don't find any of this the least bit funny philosslayer Mar 2016 #64

Methinks you do. blm Mar 2016 #65

Organized religion is a way to control the masses. Rex Mar 2016 #79

How do you know that? Define Islam. Albertoo Mar 2016 #92

Pew Research on Islam and Sharia FrodosPet Mar 2016 #100

By that standard, every other religion is a religion of peace as well? brooklynite Mar 2016 #110

As with most religions... TipTok Mar 2016 #114

(some) Christians kill abortion doctors left-of-center2012 Mar 2016 #3

A. DUers do tend to condemn all Christians theboss Mar 2016 #7

i fear christian zealots more than muslim zealots perhap if my next death threat comes from a muslim dembotoz Mar 2016 #32

Yes, let's keep score. bvf Mar 2016 #33

left of center agnostic102 Mar 2016 #8

Thank you for your efforts. Please keep trying. nt SylviaD Mar 2016 #52

One should condemn the elements of Christianity that attempt to justify such behavior oberliner Mar 2016 #31

Works for me. Gore1FL Mar 2016 #43

There are a whole fuck load lastone Mar 2016 #48

Hear Hear. snagglepuss Mar 2016 #4

You're wasting your breath. linuxman Mar 2016 #5

This is just a message board - while I think you also mean well, closeupready Mar 2016 #9

Dear closeupready agnostic102 Mar 2016 #18

Good on you, and I hope you succeed! closeupready Mar 2016 #24

What do you think of this post from ummah.com? Would this argument be acceptable ancianita Mar 2016 #37

You are not alone. FrodosPet Mar 2016 #104

You are so right. Jenny_92808 Mar 2016 #85

Post removed Post removed Mar 2016 #13

Bigotry, no matter how civilized it tries to sound, is still bigotry. Maedhros Mar 2016 #19

It's not really about "defending Islam" IMNSHO... Wounded Bear Mar 2016 #20

Correct, this is blowback from Islamophobia and western aggression mwrguy Mar 2016 #59

Very close Jenny_92808 Mar 2016 #91

Are "islam" and "wahhabism" and "terrorism" all the same thing? Martin Eden Mar 2016 #21

The terrorist arrested a couple of days ago was living near his family. alarimer Mar 2016 #22

you are so right. MariaThinks Mar 2016 #26

Well said. nt Duppers Mar 2016 #54

Post removed Post removed Mar 2016 #27

That's almost the same words that Muhammad said in the Koran to spare the ladjf Mar 2016 #28

shai? MisterP Mar 2016 #34

It is not the religion that is bad. Bad people seeking power and money use religion liberal_at_heart Mar 2016 #35

I see it as being kinda like the war in Ireland between Catholics and Protestants. Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2016 #36

It is nothing at all like that. Science Crow Mar 2016 #53

It did when you considered the nationalism they associated with religion.... Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2016 #58

Still wrong Science Crow Mar 2016 #61

"Ireland is not in the Middle East" Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2016 #63

Yep, DUers grasping at straws to condemn "ALL religion" bring up the UK-Irish conflict Nye Bevan Mar 2016 #68

Holocaust was inspired by Christian anti-semitism Bradical79 Mar 2016 #74

Ah yes, that devout Christian Third Reich.... Nye Bevan Mar 2016 #75

You seem to think the Jews were a random target Bradical79 Mar 2016 #83

blowback Locrian Mar 2016 #38

K&R nt killbotfactory Mar 2016 #115

Individuals do these things. davidthegnome Mar 2016 #41

That is total BS oberliner Mar 2016 #80

Not the point. davidthegnome Mar 2016 #84

I, also, am very sorry about the murder of all those innocent people in Belgium. Mc Mike Mar 2016 #44

There is a difference between "blaming a billion Muslims" and looking critically at Islam oberliner Mar 2016 #81

There is a massive structural difference between Islam and Repuglicanism Mc Mike Mar 2016 #108

Islam is a philosophy/belief system like conservatism or Republicanism oberliner Mar 2016 #109

We're on very different wave-lengths, here. Mc Mike Mar 2016 #112

Thanks for the response oberliner Mar 2016 #113

The two most dangerous things that could come out of the Brussels mass murder Mc Mike Mar 2016 #116

fuck Saudi Arabia-- they are the root source of much of this Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #45

15 out of 19, 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. B Calm Mar 2016 #51

exactly... they are an evil place, and have bought off much of our government too Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #89

This is one of the reasons why Jenny_92808 Mar 2016 #86

he is so amazingly right on so many issues, there is no comparison for me Fast Walker 52 Mar 2016 #88

Serious question nadinbrzezinski Mar 2016 #50

Violence in the name of Islam predates colonialism and climate change oberliner Mar 2016 #82

Climate Change agnostic102 Mar 2016 #90

"there hearts" - Should be "their hearts". If you are going to disseminate hate, you should jtuck004 Mar 2016 #55

I defend no religion (other than its right to exist) REP Mar 2016 #56

I don't defend Islam, but do defend Muslims n/t etherealtruth Mar 2016 #60

It's a cult within Islam that distorts it to rationalize their bloodthirst - they are DAESH. blm Mar 2016 #66

I could care less about "Islam" Scootaloo Mar 2016 #76

I defend those that would be killed by the same bullets, those that are innocent Rex Mar 2016 #78

Religion is only a reflection of society. Odin2005 Mar 2016 #93

Agreed. Therefore, religion is useless Albertoo Mar 2016 #95

"Useless" only to materialists who think spirituality and mysticism are hogwash. Odin2005 Mar 2016 #96

Is a reflection useful? As for spirituality, define it. Albertoo Mar 2016 #97

Naw, I know from experience that arguing with "New Atheist" types is pointless... Odin2005 Mar 2016 #98

I am not "new", I never believed Albertoo Mar 2016 #99

I would like to see a poll directed toward fundamentalist muslims living in "western" cultures Quantess Mar 2016 #107

I'm atheist. I don't defend any religion. Iggo Mar 2016 #111

you mean "their hearts" not "there hearts." ellenrr Mar 2016 #117