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eniwetok

(1,629 posts)
64. here's the amendment breakdown...
Mon Apr 4, 2016, 10:19 AM
Apr 2016

Whenever I bring up the antidemocratic and virtual reform-proof nature of the Constitution someone will invariably protest that we already have 27 Amendments... and this somehow "proves" the Constitution CAN be reformed. With 27 amendments over 225 years that's about one every 8 years. Sounds like there's plenty of flexibility. Maybe they have a point... or not. To which I counter NONE of these amendments reforms any of the core antidemocratic defects of the Constitution. Our system is so antidemocratic that it might never truly be reformed.

Here's a breakdown of amendments by category... feel free to break them down in other ways:

INDIVIDUAL & STATES RIGHTS: 1-10 plus 13th, 14th

FINE TUNING THE CONSTITUTION: 11th, 12th, 16th, 20th, 22ed, 25th, 27th

PROHIBITION & REPEAL: 18th, 21st

EXPANDING VOTING RIGHTS: 15th, 19th, 24th, 26th

MAKING THE CONSTITUTION MORE DEMOCRATIC: 17th, 23ed

The first ten amendments, aka The Bill Of Rights, were demanded by the states as the price of ratification. So that leaves 17 amendments over 223 years or one amendment every 13 years.

If we take away the 7 that I've put into the "FINE TUNING" category that leaves 10 amendments over 223 years or one, on average, every 22.3 years. These amendments cover things like presidential terms etc.

Take away Prohibition and its repeal... that leaves 8 amendments over 223 years giving us one amendment averaging about every 28 years.

That leaves 6 amendments that in some way make the Constitution more democratic... that gives us one amendment every 36 years. These amendments fall into two categories.

The first category is expanding the vote to groups who arguably should NEVER have been denied it: slaves (15th), women (19th), those who can't afford a poll tax (24th) and 18 year olds (26th).

The second category deals with some aspect of the antidemocratic structure of the Constitution itself. Here we have but TWO amendments... giving us ONE reform amendment, on average, every 111 years. Those reforms were allowing direct vote for the Senate... and giving EC votes to those in Washington DC. Given how antidemocratic the Constitution is, those reforms are minor tweaks.

The sad reality is NONE of those 27 amendments to date have reformed ANY of the core antidemocratic features of the Constitution all of which are connected with the antidemocratic concept of state suffrage... the EC, the Senate, the exclusive powers of the Senate to ratify judicial nominees or treaties, the amendment process, etc.

That's ZERO serious reform amendments in 225 years!


Which brings us back to my original point... is our system so antidemocratic that it can never truly be reformed? And if so... what are we who value democracy to do as demographic trends make the Constitution even more antidemocratic and more reform-proof?

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Are you looking to do away with the Senate? dogman Mar 2016 #1
are you suggesting the senate is morally illegitimate? eniwetok Mar 2016 #5
They are not proportional to population. dogman Mar 2016 #8
so antidemocratic government is about morality? eniwetok Mar 2016 #12
I guess your question would be to the founders. dogman Mar 2016 #13
given us? eniwetok Mar 2016 #14
We would probably still be a colony. dogman Mar 2016 #15
missing the point eniwetok Mar 2016 #16
limiting the power of the minority eniwetok Apr 2016 #17
Is the Senate constitutional? WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2016 #34
of course it's "constitutional" eniwetok Apr 2016 #38
Not so sure 'bout that. WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2016 #41
the problem with ANY reformulation of the EC eniwetok Apr 2016 #43
I'm with you. The Senate is an abomination. Does America look like Chicago, represented by 2 WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2016 #44
So, less populous states are now Bettie Apr 2016 #60
Keep the Senate... but base it on national proportional representation eniwetok Apr 2016 #48
Votes in swing states weigh more than non swing states too Rebkeh Mar 2016 #2
isn't it odd... eniwetok Mar 2016 #6
In 2012, 66 million voted for Obama and 61 million for Romney. Nye Bevan Mar 2016 #3
that's the problem with... eniwetok Mar 2016 #7
There is no solution to that, because there is no other way a government could work. potone Mar 2016 #10
Its called a Eko Mar 2016 #4
as opposed to... eniwetok Apr 2016 #22
a democracy. Eko Apr 2016 #26
It depends on what you are talking about. potone Mar 2016 #9
no other interests... eniwetok Mar 2016 #11
We are the 'United States', not 'America'. X_Digger Apr 2016 #54
lol tymorial Apr 2016 #59
RED HERRING ALERT!! eniwetok Apr 2016 #63
If you look into the deliberations forming the Constitution 1939 Apr 2016 #19
Much was debated eniwetok Apr 2016 #21
I disagree on this point... 2naSalit Apr 2016 #28
and the federalist papers... eniwetok Apr 2016 #31
I look at it in a different light I guess 2naSalit Apr 2016 #33
no progress the past 225 years? eniwetok Apr 2016 #37
Hmmm 2naSalit Apr 2016 #39
In our system apathy is not an unreasonablel response. eniwetok Apr 2016 #46
---unreasonable--- 2naSalit Apr 2016 #49
I meant unreasonable... eniwetok Apr 2016 #50
If the constitution were 'reformproof' we wouldn't be up to #28 for the next one. X_Digger Apr 2016 #55
here's the amendment breakdown... eniwetok Apr 2016 #64
I would submit 1939 Apr 2016 #72
no key reforms in 225 years eniwetok Apr 2016 #47
I remember Al Gore having more votes than Bush. Should the Electoral College be done away B Calm Apr 2016 #18
the EC is an antidemocratic abomination eniwetok Apr 2016 #20
Let's ask Socrates. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2016 #23
it's called the senate. nt La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2016 #24
So is this one of those threads where we answer questions with questions? Iggo Apr 2016 #25
One group of 1,000 voters gets counted as 1,000 votes, another group of 1,000 counts as 900 .... L. Coyote Apr 2016 #27
voter suppression is different from... eniwetok Apr 2016 #35
Learn a little about basic government and get back with us. Rex Apr 2016 #29
really? eniwetok Apr 2016 #30
how many other nations have our system? eniwetok Apr 2016 #40
Republicans would be the Green Party if it was one person one vote Democat Apr 2016 #32
some numbers: votes vs senate seats eniwetok Apr 2016 #36
It loses some legitimacy, but not all of it. N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2016 #42
what remains morally legitimate? eniwetok Apr 2016 #45
The US is a rigged manipulated democracy and the highest bidder wins. And some of it is obsolete, RKP5637 Apr 2016 #51
yup... a cat fight eniwetok Apr 2016 #53
Thank you for your astute reply! n/t RKP5637 Apr 2016 #70
If we didn't have a bicameral legislature then yes tymorial Apr 2016 #52
so bicameral means it MUST be antidemocratic? eniwetok Apr 2016 #56
Your concept is preposterous tymorial Apr 2016 #58
No, YOUR concept is preposterous eniwetok Apr 2016 #61
You mean like how the vote of someone in wymoing is way more proportionally powerful in the Senate Warren DeMontague Apr 2016 #57
we're only stuck with it if... eniwetok Apr 2016 #62
If I wasn't capable of "questioning" it, I wouldn't have mentioned it. Warren DeMontague Apr 2016 #65
the bar is insanely high eniwetok Apr 2016 #66
it is important to remember, absolutely. And I'm all for pointing it out. Warren DeMontague Apr 2016 #67
I hope you're wrong eniwetok Apr 2016 #68
There is a logistical process to changing the constitution, though, that goes beyond simply changing Warren DeMontague Apr 2016 #69
what I'm saying eniwetok Apr 2016 #71
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