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MineralMan

(146,189 posts)
21. I'm not trusting, and I'm quite cynical.
Wed Jun 6, 2012, 09:52 AM
Jun 2012

But, there are easily identifiable reasons for Walker's win. And money is the probable reason. Wisconsin state law let Walker raise unlimited funds, and the Koch Brothers and others were happy to supply it. There was no need to rig this election when it could be bought. It's not trust that makes me think so; it's reality.

What I'm cynical about is the idea that we can find a way to defeat this process. Not so much for the Presidential race, which I think Obama will win handily, but for state and federal legislative races, which most people don't really think that much about. The legislatures are where the power lies, but we focus on the executive. That's a huge mistake. So, yes, I'm plenty cynical enough.

what reason do we have to believe the paid off media is telling the truth We Want Peace Jun 2012 #1
You will think what you want to think. MineralMan Jun 2012 #6
I would just like to point out one thing. zeemike Jun 2012 #46
I appreciate this post. It would help, however, snot Jun 2012 #2
Here's a summary of the existing uncertainty/lack of transparency re- snot Jun 2012 #23
I am with you, Snot. glinda Jun 2012 #93
+1 HiPointDem Jun 2012 #102
Free voting machines were distributed throughout the state. snacker Jun 2012 #116
and we've all been well trained to rationalize our losses... Matariki Jun 2012 #81
was the heavy monitoring at the polling place or at the counting place? hobbit709 Jun 2012 #3
I'm not in Wisconsin. But, others on DU are, and MineralMan Jun 2012 #11
because a lot of DUers can't comprehend the fact that there are people who believe differently dionysus Jun 2012 #4
+1 Shrek Jun 2012 #7
I'm afraid you're right. MineralMan Jun 2012 #12
You make good points that I agree with but truckin Jun 2012 #20
It's not a one or the other thing... JHB Jun 2012 #38
I agree with you. That was the point I tried to make that we need to continue to fight in each truckin Jun 2012 #39
i'm not saying the republican election fraud doesn't exist. dionysus Jun 2012 #51
That is true, some believe every election that doesn't go our way is rigged. However, truckin Jun 2012 #56
on this we agree. dionysus Jun 2012 #115
ring a ding a ding dong. cali Jun 2012 #30
People believe it was stolen because there's no reason to trust the system. freedom fighter jh Jun 2012 #33
As long as you are raising those same questions... ag_dude Jun 2012 #49
I have raised the issue generally, many times, before it pertained to any particular election. freedom fighter jh Jun 2012 #55
Actually it IS valid. ag_dude Jun 2012 #64
This has nothing to do with who I am. freedom fighter jh Jun 2012 #68
Like I said. ag_dude Jun 2012 #85
Bullcrap. We have seen mountains of evidence of Republican cheating for years and years. rhett o rick Jun 2012 #111
You sound no different than the republican nuts. ag_dude Jun 2012 #113
LOL. I am saying that Repukes cheat at every turn and you call me a Republican? rhett o rick Jun 2012 #114
I'm saying you are a mirror image of them. ag_dude Jun 2012 #117
I will say it again very slow. There is a ton of evidence that repukes cheat. rhett o rick Jun 2012 #120
Explain then libtodeath Jun 2012 #125
If you are a wacko, so am I. nm rhett o rick Jun 2012 #112
Thanks freedom fighter. nt shcrane71 Jun 2012 #86
Exactly marions ghost Jun 2012 #98
Damn dion. You get to the nub pretty quick, don't you? Tarheel_Dem Jun 2012 #121
i try! dionysus Jun 2012 #122
Walker had 39 million dollars to spend. ananda Jun 2012 #5
There will never be a fair election as long as we have electronic voting. nt Javaman Jun 2012 #8
Amen . . . aggiesal Jun 2012 #70
+100 marions ghost Jun 2012 #101
+1,000,000,000,000 shcrane71 Jun 2012 #79
And electronic vote counting Matariki Jun 2012 #82
With the way the polls swung towards the challenger libtodeath Jun 2012 #9
I don't know that the election was rigged... Scuba Jun 2012 #10
Interestingly enough, that has been done elsewhere. MineralMan Jun 2012 #14
Interestingly enough, that has been done elsewhere besides Minnesota.... Scuba Jun 2012 #32
So if the fraud is massive there is no check on it? freedom fighter jh Jun 2012 #35
If every election required a recount, the situation would be unmanageable. MineralMan Jun 2012 #73
So then the choice is between unreliable results and an unmanageable situation? freedom fighter jh Jun 2012 #76
No. That's what you think the choice is. MineralMan Jun 2012 #92
What evidence *could* there be? freedom fighter jh Jun 2012 #119
We asked our ROV in San Diego ... aggiesal Jun 2012 #110
Blaming Rove is more fun. greytdemocrat Jun 2012 #13
+1 HotRodTuna Jun 2012 #54
You don't need to steal an election when you can buy one. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2012 #15
Walker's ability to raise unlimited funds for this election MineralMan Jun 2012 #17
True in this particular instance, but I was considering the larger impact The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2012 #19
Yes. The criminal investigations continue. MineralMan Jun 2012 #24
You are far too trusting and not nearly cynical enough. RC Jun 2012 #16
I'm not trusting, and I'm quite cynical. MineralMan Jun 2012 #21
"The legislatures are where the power lies." - Bingo. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2012 #25
You are probably right that Walker won fair and square but would you agree that truckin Jun 2012 #37
Excellent points, all. proverbialwisdom Jun 2012 #43
You can agree the network calling the race 45 minutes in was at least Blue_Tires Jun 2012 #18
Media are always weird. MineralMan Jun 2012 #22
If your message is weak... kentuck Jun 2012 #26
I would love to see a manual recount sunnystarr Jun 2012 #27
Such a recount won't occur. MineralMan Jun 2012 #29
I agree. It's too easy to throw accusations of fraud kudzu22 Jun 2012 #28
Exactly, and why does Minnesota have a Democratic MineralMan Jun 2012 #31
There was a huge emphasis on watching the votes and counts for Governor and you glinda Jun 2012 #94
And yet, he is the Governor. MineralMan Jun 2012 #95
Watching votes is one thing and glinda Jun 2012 #100
Rec'd n/t GarroHorus Jun 2012 #34
Walker won because the concept of a recall lost. jeff47 Jun 2012 #36
A much better explanation than anything else I've heard. It amazes me that there is *no* theft when SlimJimmy Jun 2012 #47
When we win, the Republicans claim the election was stolen. MineralMan Jun 2012 #74
Agree on all points SlimJimmy Jun 2012 #87
WI bucks the trend, and high voter turn out is now good for Republicans. shcrane71 Jun 2012 #80
Walker got about 38% of union housholds. Add to that fact that about 60% said they SlimJimmy Jun 2012 #88
That makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever. It's not that difficult to understand. shcrane71 Jun 2012 #90
I'm just using the polling data to come to some realistic conclusions. SlimJimmy Jun 2012 #91
+1 HiPointDem Jun 2012 #103
Post removed Post removed Jun 2012 #40
YOU CAN'T MONITOR THE INSIDE OF A VOTING MACHINE nt HomerRamone Jun 2012 #41
Yep... thank you! And who manufactures the voting machines? nt. shcrane71 Jun 2012 #42
bingo 2pooped2pop Jun 2012 #50
yep marions ghost Jun 2012 #105
Interrogating election integrity isn't about hope or hopelessness. EFerrari Jun 2012 #44
Holy fucking shit! THANK YOU!!!! shcrane71 Jun 2012 #57
^^ This ^^ gkhouston Jun 2012 #71
NYT exit poll cosmicaug Jun 2012 #45
meh hfojvt Jun 2012 #48
In para. 3, photo ID and registering at the polls have nothing to do with election fraud AllyCat Jun 2012 #52
HAHAHA... too sick eowyn_of_rohan Jun 2012 #53
You know who the true silent majority is? shcrane71 Jun 2012 #58
Why are we reduced to faith based voting? EFerrari Jun 2012 #61
I didn't think Progressives read crappy books like The Secret. shcrane71 Jun 2012 #66
Voters were deluged by media that re-inforced the idea the recall was illegit. n/t EFerrari Jun 2012 #72
NBC called it while people were still voting. NYT's called it prior to polls closing. shcrane71 Jun 2012 #78
Yes, peculiar. n/t EFerrari Jun 2012 #83
+1. I'm disgusted to see so many people who are ok with this election & so invested in HiPointDem Jun 2012 #104
Obey, goddammit. EFerrari Jun 2012 #109
Black-box tabulation sets the stage for wholesale theft. Fozzledick Jun 2012 #59
People who feel it was rigged lack hard evidence. Bradical79 Jun 2012 #60
In a post-Citizens United world, every election is rigged. hifiguy Jun 2012 #62
Almost impossible Stevepol Jun 2012 #63
Yeah it was rigged... Javaman Jun 2012 #65
Bookmarking for later. Thanks. K&R - n/t coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #67
"Fixing an election to produce the results that actually happened would be almost impossible" Bluenorthwest Jun 2012 #69
There are few absolutes that can be stated. MineralMan Jun 2012 #77
Not really, everyone knew the 2000 and probably the 2004 elections Rex Jun 2012 #75
Maybe they forgot to rig the machines for McCain kudzu22 Jun 2012 #84
Dunno about that, but they sure did hate McSame. Rex Jun 2012 #89
There are endless reasons why they wouldn't try in 2008. EFerrari Jun 2012 #107
I think it's a little bit of both... progress2k12nbynd Jun 2012 #96
So you think the election could have been rigged. I agree. Prometheus Bound Jun 2012 #97
Myself, I want to cooperate with the Thought Police EFerrari Jun 2012 #108
There seem to be an awful lot of threads encouraging us to conform and cooperate. Prometheus Bound Jun 2012 #123
I agree and I think recall politics is a losing game. TNLib Jun 2012 #99
yeah, forget about any tools citizens have outside the regular rigged elections. HiPointDem Jun 2012 #106
and to those who won't let go of the rigged election argument... ibegurpard Jun 2012 #118
Of course you keep fighting. But you also acknowledge that there are major problems truckin Jun 2012 #124
The alternative you don't name is cleaning up our election systems. EFerrari Jun 2012 #126
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