In a post-Citizens United world, every election is rigged. (Reply #62)

In the discussion thread: Thinking that the WI election was "rigged" sets the stage for losing. [View all]

Wed Jun 6, 2012, 12:31 PM

hifiguy (33,688 posts)

62. In a post-Citizens United world, every election is rigged.

Not necessarily by funny business with voting machines, which I am sure exists and will continue to exist, especially in very close elections, but by money.

The fascist plutocrats are willing to spend however many billions it takes to catapult the lies and propaganda. Given the percentage of the electorate that is very low-information or just plain to-the-bone bigoted and/or stupid, it is, for the most part, easier to manipulate these sorry sheeple than to rig the mechanisms of voting themselves and lower risk. It is merely a cost of doing business, which will be handily recouped many times over once they have complete control and can finish their looting the 99%.

What can be done to reverse or stop this? As far as I can see at this moment, not one thing, for when money is speech, the rich can easily drown out everyone else and when there is such a significant uninvolved/imbecile segment of the electorate more than willing to be led to their own slaughter and resistant to any form of facts the tool of reason is a very small slingshot indeed.

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126 replies	Author	Time	Post
Thinking that the WI election was "rigged" sets the stage for losing. [View all]	MineralMan	Jun 2012	OP
what reason do we have to believe the paid off media is telling the truth	We Want Peace	Jun 2012	#1
You will think what you want to think.	MineralMan	Jun 2012	#6
I would just like to point out one thing.	zeemike	Jun 2012	#46
I appreciate this post. It would help, however,	snot	Jun 2012	#2
Here's a summary of the existing uncertainty/lack of transparency re-	snot	Jun 2012	#23
I am with you, Snot.	glinda	Jun 2012	#93
+1	HiPointDem	Jun 2012	#102
Free voting machines were distributed throughout the state.	snacker	Jun 2012	#116
and we've all been well trained to rationalize our losses...	Matariki	Jun 2012	#81
was the heavy monitoring at the polling place or at the counting place?	hobbit709	Jun 2012	#3
I'm not in Wisconsin. But, others on DU are, and	MineralMan	Jun 2012	#11
because a lot of DUers can't comprehend the fact that there are people who believe differently	dionysus	Jun 2012	#4
+1	Shrek	Jun 2012	#7
I'm afraid you're right.	MineralMan	Jun 2012	#12
You make good points that I agree with but	truckin	Jun 2012	#20
It's not a one or the other thing...	JHB	Jun 2012	#38
I agree with you. That was the point I tried to make that we need to continue to fight in each	truckin	Jun 2012	#39
i'm not saying the republican election fraud doesn't exist.	dionysus	Jun 2012	#51
That is true, some believe every election that doesn't go our way is rigged. However,	truckin	Jun 2012	#56
on this we agree.	dionysus	Jun 2012	#115
ring a ding a ding dong.	cali	Jun 2012	#30
People believe it was stolen because there's no reason to trust the system.	freedom fighter jh	Jun 2012	#33
As long as you are raising those same questions...	ag_dude	Jun 2012	#49
I have raised the issue generally, many times, before it pertained to any particular election.	freedom fighter jh	Jun 2012	#55
Actually it IS valid.	ag_dude	Jun 2012	#64
This has nothing to do with who I am.	freedom fighter jh	Jun 2012	#68
Like I said.	ag_dude	Jun 2012	#85
Bullcrap. We have seen mountains of evidence of Republican cheating for years and years.	rhett o rick	Jun 2012	#111
You sound no different than the republican nuts.	ag_dude	Jun 2012	#113
LOL. I am saying that Repukes cheat at every turn and you call me a Republican?	rhett o rick	Jun 2012	#114
I'm saying you are a mirror image of them.	ag_dude	Jun 2012	#117
I will say it again very slow. There is a ton of evidence that repukes cheat.	rhett o rick	Jun 2012	#120
Explain then	libtodeath	Jun 2012	#125
If you are a wacko, so am I. nm	rhett o rick	Jun 2012	#112
Thanks freedom fighter. nt	shcrane71	Jun 2012	#86
Exactly	marions ghost	Jun 2012	#98
Damn dion. You get to the nub pretty quick, don't you?	Tarheel_Dem	Jun 2012	#121
i try!	dionysus	Jun 2012	#122
Walker had 39 million dollars to spend.	ananda	Jun 2012	#5
There will never be a fair election as long as we have electronic voting. nt	Javaman	Jun 2012	#8
Amen . . .	aggiesal	Jun 2012	#70
+100	marions ghost	Jun 2012	#101
+1,000,000,000,000	shcrane71	Jun 2012	#79
And electronic vote counting	Matariki	Jun 2012	#82
With the way the polls swung towards the challenger	libtodeath	Jun 2012	#9
I don't know that the election was rigged...	Scuba	Jun 2012	#10
Interestingly enough, that has been done elsewhere.	MineralMan	Jun 2012	#14
Interestingly enough, that has been done elsewhere besides Minnesota....	Scuba	Jun 2012	#32
So if the fraud is massive there is no check on it?	freedom fighter jh	Jun 2012	#35
If every election required a recount, the situation would be unmanageable.	MineralMan	Jun 2012	#73
So then the choice is between unreliable results and an unmanageable situation?	freedom fighter jh	Jun 2012	#76
No. That's what you think the choice is.	MineralMan	Jun 2012	#92
What evidence could there be?	freedom fighter jh	Jun 2012	#119
We asked our ROV in San Diego ...	aggiesal	Jun 2012	#110
Blaming Rove is more fun.	greytdemocrat	Jun 2012	#13
+1	HotRodTuna	Jun 2012	#54
You don't need to steal an election when you can buy one.	The Velveteen Ocelot	Jun 2012	#15
Walker's ability to raise unlimited funds for this election	MineralMan	Jun 2012	#17
True in this particular instance, but I was considering the larger impact	The Velveteen Ocelot	Jun 2012	#19
Yes. The criminal investigations continue.	MineralMan	Jun 2012	#24
You are far too trusting and not nearly cynical enough.	RC	Jun 2012	#16
I'm not trusting, and I'm quite cynical.	MineralMan	Jun 2012	#21
"The legislatures are where the power lies." - Bingo.	The Velveteen Ocelot	Jun 2012	#25
You are probably right that Walker won fair and square but would you agree that	truckin	Jun 2012	#37
Excellent points, all.	proverbialwisdom	Jun 2012	#43
You can agree the network calling the race 45 minutes in was at least	Blue_Tires	Jun 2012	#18
Media are always weird.	MineralMan	Jun 2012	#22
If your message is weak...	kentuck	Jun 2012	#26
I would love to see a manual recount	sunnystarr	Jun 2012	#27
Such a recount won't occur.	MineralMan	Jun 2012	#29
I agree. It's too easy to throw accusations of fraud	kudzu22	Jun 2012	#28
Exactly, and why does Minnesota have a Democratic	MineralMan	Jun 2012	#31
There was a huge emphasis on watching the votes and counts for Governor and you	glinda	Jun 2012	#94
And yet, he is the Governor.	MineralMan	Jun 2012	#95
Watching votes is one thing and	glinda	Jun 2012	#100
Rec'd n/t	GarroHorus	Jun 2012	#34
Walker won because the concept of a recall lost.	jeff47	Jun 2012	#36
A much better explanation than anything else I've heard. It amazes me that there is no theft when	SlimJimmy	Jun 2012	#47
When we win, the Republicans claim the election was stolen.	MineralMan	Jun 2012	#74
Agree on all points	SlimJimmy	Jun 2012	#87
WI bucks the trend, and high voter turn out is now good for Republicans.	shcrane71	Jun 2012	#80
Walker got about 38% of union housholds. Add to that fact that about 60% said they	SlimJimmy	Jun 2012	#88
That makes absolutely no sense, whatsoever. It's not that difficult to understand.	shcrane71	Jun 2012	#90
I'm just using the polling data to come to some realistic conclusions.	SlimJimmy	Jun 2012	#91
+1	HiPointDem	Jun 2012	#103
Post removed	Post removed	Jun 2012	#40
YOU CAN'T MONITOR THE INSIDE OF A VOTING MACHINE nt	HomerRamone	Jun 2012	#41
Yep... thank you! And who manufactures the voting machines? nt.	shcrane71	Jun 2012	#42
bingo	2pooped2pop	Jun 2012	#50
yep	marions ghost	Jun 2012	#105
Interrogating election integrity isn't about hope or hopelessness.	EFerrari	Jun 2012	#44
Holy fucking shit! THANK YOU!!!!	shcrane71	Jun 2012	#57
^^ This ^^	gkhouston	Jun 2012	#71
NYT exit poll	cosmicaug	Jun 2012	#45
meh	hfojvt	Jun 2012	#48
In para. 3, photo ID and registering at the polls have nothing to do with election fraud	AllyCat	Jun 2012	#52
HAHAHA... too sick	eowyn_of_rohan	Jun 2012	#53
You know who the true silent majority is?	shcrane71	Jun 2012	#58
Why are we reduced to faith based voting?	EFerrari	Jun 2012	#61
I didn't think Progressives read crappy books like The Secret.	shcrane71	Jun 2012	#66
Voters were deluged by media that re-inforced the idea the recall was illegit. n/t	EFerrari	Jun 2012	#72
NBC called it while people were still voting. NYT's called it prior to polls closing.	shcrane71	Jun 2012	#78
Yes, peculiar. n/t	EFerrari	Jun 2012	#83
+1. I'm disgusted to see so many people who are ok with this election & so invested in	HiPointDem	Jun 2012	#104
Obey, goddammit.	EFerrari	Jun 2012	#109
Black-box tabulation sets the stage for wholesale theft.	Fozzledick	Jun 2012	#59
People who feel it was rigged lack hard evidence.	Bradical79	Jun 2012	#60
In a post-Citizens United world, every election is rigged.	hifiguy	Jun 2012	#62
Almost impossible	Stevepol	Jun 2012	#63
Yeah it was rigged...	Javaman	Jun 2012	#65
Bookmarking for later. Thanks. K&R - n/t	coalition_unwilling	Jun 2012	#67
"Fixing an election to produce the results that actually happened would be almost impossible"	Bluenorthwest	Jun 2012	#69
There are few absolutes that can be stated.	MineralMan	Jun 2012	#77
Not really, everyone knew the 2000 and probably the 2004 elections	Rex	Jun 2012	#75
Maybe they forgot to rig the machines for McCain	kudzu22	Jun 2012	#84
Dunno about that, but they sure did hate McSame.	Rex	Jun 2012	#89
There are endless reasons why they wouldn't try in 2008.	EFerrari	Jun 2012	#107
I think it's a little bit of both...	progress2k12nbynd	Jun 2012	#96
So you think the election could have been rigged. I agree.	Prometheus Bound	Jun 2012	#97
Myself, I want to cooperate with the Thought Police	EFerrari	Jun 2012	#108
There seem to be an awful lot of threads encouraging us to conform and cooperate.	Prometheus Bound	Jun 2012	#123
I agree and I think recall politics is a losing game.	TNLib	Jun 2012	#99
yeah, forget about any tools citizens have outside the regular rigged elections.	HiPointDem	Jun 2012	#106
and to those who won't let go of the rigged election argument...	ibegurpard	Jun 2012	#118
Of course you keep fighting. But you also acknowledge that there are major problems	truckin	Jun 2012	#124
The alternative you don't name is cleaning up our election systems.	EFerrari	Jun 2012	#126

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