Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: "There is no 'just war'" [View all]Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)37. Ever read Twain's "The War Prayer"?
Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth into battle be Thou near them! With them in spirit we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with their little children to wander unfriended in the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames in summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it
For our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimmage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet!
We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.
For our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimmage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet!
We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.
let's take your example of the American Revolution. A rather large number of colonials preferred to remain subjects of the crown. if they made their opinions known, what do you think happened? usually they were brutalized, their property confiscated. tarring and feathering was a popular punishment for loyalists - that's when you're pinned down and a bucket of molten pine pitch is poured over you. Sounds "just' to me, doesn't it you? And what of those colonials who remained loyal to the British crown - you know, their nation who refused conscription, or who refused to house and feed soldiers of the continental Army (remember, there was no third amendment!) Well, usually they were shot. Right there, military execution.
And what of the Native nations that participated in the war? Remember, if you will, that one big reason behind the revolution was that treaties restricted immigration westward into Indian lands. Those nations further had treaties with the British, and when the war went up, a lot of them joined in alongside their allies who were working to protect their rights. After the British lost, what happened to these native nations? well, their "siding with the British" (instead of, I dunno, breaking their treaties) was used as pretext for the beginning of the american genocide against native Americans.
There are sometimes "necessary" wars (The revolution was not one of them, by the way. WW2 would be) But there is never a just war. There's a distinction there.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
Recommendations
0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):
153 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
If you consider IBM automating the Holocaust doing business to be "doing business."
rug
Apr 2016
#11
Who a private company does business is irrelevant to whether fighting the Nazi's was right.
EX500rider
Apr 2016
#14
So there has to be zero trade with a country pre-war to make fighting a evil regime just?
EX500rider
Apr 2016
#22
By that logic, any level of atrocity can be excused if the ends is deemed "just"
Scootaloo
Apr 2016
#45
Again, unjust individual acts in a just war don't change the righteousness of the cause.
EX500rider
Apr 2016
#94
I was not aware that the point of a tire was to explode and kill people in a blast radius
Scootaloo
Apr 2016
#103
Most Americans think the war against Germany was justified so not a usual position at all.
EX500rider
Apr 2016
#122
What's your definition of 'just', if a 'necessary' war is not a 'just' one?
muriel_volestrangler
Apr 2016
#95
So do you think it was morally wrong and/or unfair for Britain and France
muriel_volestrangler
Apr 2016
#101
Congratulations, you've convinced me of the existence of unjust wars.
Donald Ian Rankin
Apr 2016
#41
And I suppose the US should have "turned the other cheek" after Pearl Harbor..
EX500rider
Apr 2016
#9
Mayne they should have thought of that before selling the Second Ave El to the Empire of japan.
rug
Apr 2016
#16
So the US companies selling scrap metal was somehow responsible for Japan's wars of aggression?
EX500rider
Apr 2016
#19
Scrap metal, oil, food, technology, trade agreements may have had asomething to do with it.
rug
Apr 2016
#23
I am sure both Germany & Japan both thought their wars of aggression/mass murder were "just"
EX500rider
Apr 2016
#29
Well if IBM is somehow responsible for WWII then I suppose the Vatican is too...
EX500rider
Apr 2016
#72
Pre-war trade would be zero excuse for not fighting the Nazi's or the Japanese.
EX500rider
Apr 2016
#28
There would be no Nazis if sympathetic industrialsts lik eFord didn't trade with them.
rug
Apr 2016
#30
I don't think the Vatican- who tells people not to masturbate and defends child abusing priests
Warren DeMontague
Apr 2016
#49
You didnt qualify your earlier question or statement with "today", didja.
Warren DeMontague
Apr 2016
#59
If you think it's a black-and-whit statement, it says more about your thinking than the statement.
rug
Apr 2016
#110
Unfortunately neither the Taliban/ISIS/BokoHarum respond to summons or warrants.
EX500rider
Apr 2016
#93
At what point was Al Qaeda in Afghanistan small enough for a police response?
EX500rider
Apr 2016
#124
Several hundred well armed terrorists in the middle of Afghanistan were not going to be arrested.
EX500rider
Apr 2016
#136
It's the same reason Colombia doesn't arrest FARC & Philippines doesn't arrest Abu Sayyaf
EX500rider
Apr 2016
#137
So the Taliban provides sanctuary to AQ who kills over 3,000 American in 1 hr..
EX500rider
Apr 2016
#73
They cover military subjects with more detail and authority then any other site, incld janes.
EX500rider
Apr 2016
#123
Were England's pre-war maneuvers with Nazi Germany to check Bolshevist Russia part of that?
rug
Apr 2016
#108
Not in the least. Their anti-communist strategems were part of the bundle that led to the moment
rug
Apr 2016
#112
Attempts to contain the Soviet Union had nothing to do with Hitler's desire to conquer Britain
DavidDvorkin
Apr 2016
#113
“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction
Tierra_y_Libertad
Apr 2016
#138
The first thing the Vatican needs to do is remove the 600 or so Swiss troops from it's own defenses.
braddy
Apr 2016
#151
ITT: People thinking "no just war" means "all war is wrong and never should be fought"
forjusticethunders
Apr 2016
#153