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Meldread

(4,213 posts)
32. You are right, the devil is in the details. Here is where I shake out.
Wed Apr 20, 2016, 10:44 PM
Apr 2016

I'll try and address both of your points.

First, the details. UBI would be offered to everyone eighteen years or older, as well as those individuals declared independent at a younger age. UBI would not be offered to children or for additional children, as having children is a choice that the government should not be in the business of promoting or discouraging. This is the reason we also advocate for choice and easy access to contraception so individuals and families can make those decisions for themselves.

There would be no means testing for UBI. It would be offered to everyone. This would be done because we know that when a social service like this is offered as welfare, those who don't receive it fight against it. Contrast it with how social security works, and the huge popular support it receives.

Benefits would be based upon a national living standard, and then adjusted slightly (only upward) based on location. There may be some additional rules applied to additional increased payments based on location--for example, giving proof that you've lived there for a certain amount of time. I am slightly concerned here about distorting housing markets, so this would be something better worked out in careful detail.

UBI would negate the need for social security (it would essentially replace it and be much more money) as well as SNAP benefits. There may be some other minor programs that would be redundant with UBI, but we would still need to move toward a Single Payer or Universal Healthcare System. In the meantime, until we get there, Medicare, Medicaid, the ACA, and other such programs would remain in place.

I believe this answered all of your questions from the first point.

Now, to your second point regarding work. My position here is simple: I don't want individuals to be obligated to work, especially in horrible low paying jobs. I want work to be a choice, and I want workers to be empowered to bargain with their employers. If someone decides to drop out of the labor market and spend their days surfing on the beach, then that is their choice--a choice I would support. This also is beneficial to those who are interested in entering into the labor market, as it makes labor more scarce, and puts them in a stronger bargaining position. One of the big fears of UBI is that EVERYONE will drop out of the workforce, or at least large numbers of people will. This hasn't been proven to be the case in areas where it has been tried. Although there were some labor force losses, the bulk of them were people who dropped out to go back to school to obtain a higher education. Very few people actually chose to drop out of the labor force entirely. The other thing of note was that there was also a reasonable number of people who decided to work fewer hours and spend more time with their families.

My point was really two-fold: it didn't lead to the worst fears people always predict with UBI, and even in the few marginal cases where it did--it actually benefits those in the labor market, as it makes their labor more valuable. We want work to be a choice, and we want those who choose to work to be able to bargain fairly for their labor.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

The only option, given the robot future Recursion Apr 2016 #1
Yup. People don't quite understand how rapidly we are Warren Stupidity Apr 2016 #3
I doubt that Albertoo Apr 2016 #4
Er, I suppose it might be possible that millions of Warren Stupidity Apr 2016 #9
I believe that this needs to be studied Sherman A1 Apr 2016 #2
I support UBI 100%. Meldread Apr 2016 #5
How would you determine UBI? metalbot Apr 2016 #31
You are right, the devil is in the details. Here is where I shake out. Meldread Apr 2016 #32
Thanks metalbot Apr 2016 #34
Yeah, it's a really bad idea to do that. Meldread Apr 2016 #36
Very well reasoned response. hamsterjill Apr 2016 #35
In "Fuck You, Pay Me" America? HughBeaumont Apr 2016 #6
In the US it will be a hard and bitter fight. nt raccoon Apr 2016 #7
Post removed Post removed Apr 2016 #12
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA. HughBeaumont Apr 2016 #13
WTF are you smoking? Francis Booth Apr 2016 #15
"Nicki Minaj tickets"??? "Glow in the Dark Nikes"??? HughBeaumont Apr 2016 #16
It's an excellent idea. It won't be all unicorns and rainbows (people on UBI will not be living MillennialDem Apr 2016 #8
It would be nice if it happens and a lot of kinks worked out, but it would be a long bitter fight Dustlawyer Apr 2016 #10
It's an interesting idea that needs to be discussed mcar Apr 2016 #11
I have some family members who would quit instantly if this was enacted. FLPanhandle Apr 2016 #14
I guess if they can life comfortably on UBI radical noodle Apr 2016 #17
The reasoning behind UBI would be to remedy a labor surplus in the multiple millions. HughBeaumont Apr 2016 #19
That's a valid concern radical noodle Apr 2016 #22
Not really a problem treestar Apr 2016 #21
It would make sense for those making close to minimum TexasBushwhacker Apr 2016 #28
Well, look at it this way. If they would quit instantly, the job would be better without them. haele Apr 2016 #30
K&R! It is a very real travesty that we don't. Amimnoch Apr 2016 #18
If the case could be made radical noodle Apr 2016 #20
Everyone would have to get it Codeine Apr 2016 #26
Better than the Warmongers and Banksters getting it. Octafish Apr 2016 #23
Good idea but no chance it will pass in a system mmonk Apr 2016 #24
It's inevitable, but expect a painful journey. nt Codeine Apr 2016 #25
+1 Hoyt Apr 2016 #27
I think it would be great. sofa king Apr 2016 #29
Great idea. Sen. George McGovern proposed it and lost by 49 states. pnwmom Apr 2016 #33
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