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Recursion

(56,582 posts)

49. Overriding national sovereignty is the *entire point* of trade deals

Mon Apr 25, 2016, 12:36 AM

Apr 2016

Vietnam doesn't want to raise its minimum wage. Brunei doesn't want to establish one. Neither of them, or Malaysia, want to allow independent unions to form that can affiliate with international unions which can then sue those countries in tribunals over labor violations. Left to themselves, they wouldn't do any of those things. The TPP forces them to. That's an overriding of their sovereignty, and it's a good thing.

What secrecy are you talking about? Here's the full text of the treaty:

https://ustr.gov/trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements/trans-pacific-partnership/tpp-full-text

Hard to get more transparent than that.

If these agreements are so good, why are we getting soothing platitudes instead of specifics about how and why they're good?

Well, the whole thing has been up at the USTR's site for months now; in general people don't bother to read it and just go with what some random dude on the Internet said.

If we're going to have to live with these trade agreements, we have a right to know specifically what's in them

No, I don't believe you. Because it's been available to you for months, and you claim to care about this issue, but haven't read it.

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Highlight:

Calling Corporate-Backed Deals an "Indisputable" Good, Obama Makes Pitch for TTIP [View all] JEB Apr 2016 OP

pimping for TTIP Skittles Apr 2016 #1

+1 2naSalit Apr 2016 #3

TTIP will ELIMINATE STATE ENVIRONMENTAL REGULATION and drag all regs to the lowest common denominato Baobab Apr 2016 #25

doomed 4 sure glinda Apr 2016 #50

Not to an American audience, notice. cprise Apr 2016 #12

Huge +1! Enthusiast Apr 2016 #34

I remember Ross Perot's wild claims NAFTA would be bad. HooptieWagon Apr 2016 #2

Not really, but people have been convinced of that Recursion Apr 2016 #24

Yes, really. It destroyed American manufacturing especially unions shops. Enthusiast Apr 2016 #31

Nonsense; we manufacture more today than we did before NAFTA Recursion Apr 2016 #35

I won't be seeing your anything. None of your nonsense cheerleading for trade deals. Enthusiast Apr 2016 #38

Yup. As always. No actual argument in response. Just "trade deals are bad, mmkay?" Recursion Apr 2016 #39

My, those are some rose-tinted glasses. cprise Apr 2016 #55

Then why are both inflation-adjusted wages and income *up* since 1993, at every quintile? Recursion Apr 2016 #57

really? I am a union person and tell me where I can buy a TV made in the US, I will pay more hollysmom Apr 2016 #51

I don't see how you think that is a response Recursion Apr 2016 #53

How much is manufacturing and how much is assembling parts that were made over seas? hollysmom Apr 2016 #54

How is that not manufacturing? Recursion Apr 2016 #58

Fred advises banks, seems like rosy predictions might help them with lobbying. hollysmom Apr 2016 #60

The little fucker was right! Enthusiast Apr 2016 #32

No, he wasn't even remotely right. Do you simply not remember the 1990s? Recursion Apr 2016 #59

Very disappointing. silverweb Apr 2016 #4

He is likely thinking of his future making Multi-millions as as a "speaker" easily 500 grand a pop Dragonfli Apr 2016 #5

I hate to think he'd devolve to that. silverweb Apr 2016 #6

Sorry, but this is always who he was and is. zalinda Apr 2016 #22

This message was self-deleted by its author mrr303am Apr 2016 #44

Nothing. This is who Obama is. jeff47 Apr 2016 #7

Exactly. He's doing exactly what he was put into power to do. bjo59 Apr 2016 #10

And he was the perfect man for the job. zeemike Apr 2016 #43

NO -- it is exactly like evrything else that he has achieved. Or haven't you truedelphi Apr 2016 #14

+1! Enthusiast Apr 2016 #29

Just to be clear: it's *inconceivable* to you that he's sincere Recursion Apr 2016 #37

Don't put words in my mouth. silverweb Apr 2016 #46

Overriding national sovereignty is the *entire point* of trade deals Recursion Apr 2016 #49

Enough. silverweb Apr 2016 #52

It's so weird. I pulled the handle marked ''Democrat'' in 2008 and 2012... Octafish Apr 2016 #8

and Republicans keep popping out, indeed! cprise Apr 2016 #11

The politicians that the Powers that Be shovel down our throats have to truedelphi Apr 2016 #16

November 22, 2008 JEB Apr 2016 #45

Jesus wept. AzDar Apr 2016 #9

A big victory for suppressed wages and slave labor! Well done Mr. President! Wall Street hero! whereisjustice Apr 2016 #13

Well, the poor guy only has a few months left in order to put a serious truedelphi Apr 2016 #17

Hmm ananda Apr 2016 #15

Indisputable my arse. JEB Apr 2016 #18

It's indisputable that this neoliberal sold us out. jfern Apr 2016 #19

Link to opposition site. JEB Apr 2016 #20

What is wrong with this guy? tom_kelly Apr 2016 #21

In this video, TYT discuss Hillary's potential to evolve on the issue. earthshine Apr 2016 #56

I trust Obama to do the right thing for the country Zorro Apr 2016 #23

The history book will remember his 'free' trade pimping poorly. (nt) w4rma Apr 2016 #26

None of us can be fully trusted depending on the circumstances.... AuntPatsy Apr 2016 #41

Dip Dip Dip..... Pharaoh Apr 2016 #27

President Obama, you are wrong. Enthusiast Apr 2016 #28

I never thought I would hear an American president pitch corporate socialism to european countries. Kip Humphrey Apr 2016 #30

TTIP and the 2016 election.... AuntPatsy Apr 2016 #33

Thanks for caring and sharing the link. nt JEB Apr 2016 #36

After reading that, I fear the deck is stacked and not in the people's favor. AuntPatsy Apr 2016 #40

This sentence from your link rings true and sends chills. JEB Apr 2016 #42

Funny but not, that stood out for me as well, a dark feeling because it's not tin foil, I almost AuntPatsy Apr 2016 #47

The verdict on both sides of the EU referendum campaign - you can�t believe either of them JEB Apr 2016 #48

This message was self-deleted by its author moondust Apr 2016 #61