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Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
45. The lawyers' responsibility isn't clear.
Tue Apr 26, 2016, 03:50 PM
Apr 2016

On the one hand, you're right that lawyers have an obligation not to make frivolous arguments.

On the other hand, you also acknowledge the lawyers' obligation to represent their clients zealously. These two obligations aren't always easy to reconcile.

Take the example of the civil rights movement. In the 1940s and early 1950s, it was clearly settled law that segregation was permissible if the races were provided with "separate but equal" facilities. That had been established by a decision of the Supreme Court, Plessy v. Ferguson, back in 1896. You can't get any "settled law" more settled than a decision of the United States Supreme Court that's directly on point. If Thurgood Marshall and the other NAACP lawyers had been prohibited from challenging settled law, we'd still have segregated schools.

A lawyer is permitted to advance a position that's contrary to current law if it's supported by a good-faith argument for a change in the law. That's how we got Brown v. Board of Education with its famous declaration that separate facilities are inherently UNequal. Marshall argued that Plessy was just wrong. The Supreme Court agreed and took the rare step of overruling one of its prior decisions.

If you're tempted to look at crackpot right-wing theories and say that no one could advance them in good faith, bear in mind that plenty of white supremacists would have said the same about court-ordered desegregation. I personally favor giving lawyers a lot of latitude to advance novel or unpopular legal theories. Slapping the Bundy lawyers with a sanction for frivolous conduct would make me very uneasy.

As for standing, I can't add to what jberryhill and I have already written. If you don't find it persuasive, we'll just have to disagree on that point.

Recommendations

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At some point shouldn't we be able to send him the bill? Hortensis Apr 2016 #1
At the point where we get rid of the 5th and 6th Amendments jberryhill Apr 2016 #7
I'm all for pursuing justice, damn the costs, but at some point Hortensis Apr 2016 #8
There's nothing frivolous about preliminary motions to dismiss jberryhill Apr 2016 #9
I'll accept that you are right, Jberryhill, because Hortensis Apr 2016 #13
He'll get what's coming to him jberryhill Apr 2016 #16
The lawyer is either pro bono Gman Apr 2016 #2
Looks like a small local firm going the crowdfunded route. The feds will eat their lunch. Scurrilous Apr 2016 #5
Yep Gman Apr 2016 #15
Good luck with that, Ammon. NOT!!! longship Apr 2016 #3
Ammon's on a roll.... dixiegrrrrl Apr 2016 #4
truly a rofl situation 0rganism Apr 2016 #6
It never has worked before Major Nikon Apr 2016 #17
You could say that about a lot of cases jberryhill Apr 2016 #18
... Major Nikon Apr 2016 #43
Judge Brown isn't going to brook that nonsense gratuitous Apr 2016 #10
I wonder where they got 2naSalit Apr 2016 #29
If I had to guess gratuitous Apr 2016 #36
I am familiar with the lawyers and the law firm. Their ethics and mine don't coincide. Shrike47 Apr 2016 #11
The origninalists and constitionalists want to basically turn the clock back to the time Monk06 Apr 2016 #12
He is ruined. lpbk2713 Apr 2016 #14
Your point about desperation is what some comments in this thread overlook. Jim Lane Apr 2016 #19
People on DU don't believe in basic civil rights jberryhill Apr 2016 #20
There is a difference between civil disobedience and armed occupation of federal land. yellowcanine Apr 2016 #22
it's breaking the law in the belief one is serving a higher purpose jberryhill Apr 2016 #25
Really can't compare Bundy claims to Native American claims. yellowcanine Apr 2016 #28
I'm not comparing the claims jberryhill Apr 2016 #31
Nothing wrong with preliminary motions. Of course not. yellowcanine Apr 2016 #35
"the Bundys want the court to revisit settled law" jberryhill Apr 2016 #37
Yes, the argument will be rejected, but they certainly have standing to raise it. Jim Lane Apr 2016 #33
They do not have standing to claim ownership on behalf of local ranchers. yellowcanine Apr 2016 #34
That's not their claim jberryhill Apr 2016 #38
The other advantage here jberryhill Apr 2016 #40
Note - Not saying "preemptive dismissal" yellowcanine Apr 2016 #44
The lawyers' responsibility isn't clear. Jim Lane Apr 2016 #45
every motion the yayhoos file, is another day they're in stir. KG Apr 2016 #21
Your delusions will be soon be shattered assclown jpak Apr 2016 #23
Denying the legal authority of the Federal government is their only defense. bluedigger Apr 2016 #24
These people don't believe in America or government. Too bad they didn't get the hell out. onecaliberal Apr 2016 #26
Certainly an overt display 2naSalit Apr 2016 #30
The Bundys are idiots Gothmog Apr 2016 #27
Meh. It doesn't matter what legal manuevers he makes. Everything is over documented, a lot by his Katashi_itto Apr 2016 #32
"like a stream-roller going at one mile an hour" jberryhill Apr 2016 #39
Yep, they are there for the duration. Katashi_itto Apr 2016 #41
Federal property owned by all of us citizens and bundy thinks jwirr Apr 2016 #42
Jurisdiction is not an matter of evidence it is a matter for the Supreme Court which has Monk06 Apr 2016 #46
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