General Discussion

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)

192. Yet those same framers went back to their respective states and protected an individual right?

Thu Apr 28, 2016, 11:58 PM

Apr 2016

The present-day Pennsylvania Constitution, using language adopted in 1790, declares: "The right of the citizens to bear arms in defence of themselves and the State shall not be questioned."

Vermont: Adopted in 1777, the Vermont Constitution closely tracks the Pennsylvania Constitution. It states "That the people have a right to bear arms for the defence of themselves and the State.."

Kentucky: The 1792 Kentucky constitution was nearly contemporaneous with the Second Amendment, which was ratified in 1791. Kentucky declared: "That the right of the citizens to bear arms in defence of themselves and the State, shall not be questioned."

Alabama: The Alabama Constitution, adopted in 1819, guarantees "that every citizen has a right to bear arms in defense of himself and the state"

The ninth amendment certainly protects individual rights. See Roe V Wade, e.g.

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20 years of data show Austrailias gun control laws work [View all] Takket Apr 2016 OP

What was the rate 30 years ago? Duckhunter935 Apr 2016 #1

I guess you're wrong Major Nikon Apr 2016 #14

well done. zappaman Apr 2016 #69

If you are into post hoc, ergo propter hoc. Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #89

Sorry, that rate of decrease is similar in other countries, like the U.S. Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #72

What country is similar to 72%? Major Nikon Apr 2016 #93

"similar to 72%": You want specific similarity? Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #98

So I'll take your response as you can't provide one Major Nikon Apr 2016 #103

How bout that drop in the U.S. rate, Major! And guns... increased. NT Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #205

... Major Nikon Apr 2016 #206

Play as you may, what Was the U.S. drop? Significant? Related to guns in any way? Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #207

I asked you first Major Nikon Apr 2016 #209

"post hoc, ergo propter hoc" rock Apr 2016 #172

Ergo, my point is proper. Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #204

America's has dropped by 50% Prism Apr 2016 #118

America also implemented a massive crime bill in 1994 Major Nikon Apr 2016 #150

So, the drop in crime was due to incarceration, not guns or gun laws? Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #211

Psst, sarisataka Apr 2016 #217

Perhaps I am looking at it wrong, sarisataka Apr 2016 #83

Gun control did not visibly change the trend of the curve of homicides in Australia Albertoo May 2016 #334

US gun murders are down 50% since 1993 Travis_0004 Apr 2016 #2

As a realist, I agree with what you are saying Victor_c3 Apr 2016 #23

The 1994 Crime Bill? yallerdawg Apr 2016 #24

Here's an interesting statistic...US gun deaths are 10.54 per 100,000 Human101948 Apr 2016 #198

That US rate includes suicides....Australia's suicide rate is 12 per 100,000-not including murders. EX500rider Apr 2016 #256

America's suicide rate is 13 per 100,000 with approximately half by gun... Human101948 May 2016 #259

If guns drove suicides rates then Japan's wouldn't be amoung the highest in the world..... EX500rider May 2016 #271

I was talking aboutstripping out the suicides... Human101948 May 2016 #292

The US non-gun murder rate is above Australia's murder rate. EX500rider May 2016 #312

How does the US stack up for the same item period? Lee-Lee Apr 2016 #3

Yet last year was a record year for gun sales in Australia hack89 Apr 2016 #4

You forgot a paragraph. Old Crow Apr 2016 #5

Didn't the same thing happen in America? hack89 Apr 2016 #8

It isn't that "It Doesn't Work" Indydem Apr 2016 #6

I'd be happy if we enforced the 2nd Amendment. yallerdawg Apr 2016 #11

An honest question for you. hack89 Apr 2016 #13

Your question is since we never enforced it... yallerdawg Apr 2016 #17

If the people who wrote the 2A meant to restrict gun ownership to militias hack89 Apr 2016 #21

The colonies had just conducted a revolution... yallerdawg Apr 2016 #28

The BOR was based on the English Bill of Rights hack89 Apr 2016 #32

Perhaps because the founding fathers weren't omniscient? n/t MrModerate Apr 2016 #29

They were smart enough to allow the Constitution to be changed if needed. hack89 Apr 2016 #30

👆 This. deathrind Apr 2016 #56

Wrong. beevul Apr 2016 #63

Please stop messing with other peoples fantasies, after all what would the Founders know about war? Rex Apr 2016 #234

ROFL beevul Apr 2016 #237

Then I would say this Separation May 2016 #320

I used to make the "individual rights" argument until someone educated me on people being plural. ieoeja Apr 2016 #45

You have to look to case law, not your friend, for the legal definition of "the people" hack89 Apr 2016 #48

If you prefer to win an argument to seeking out the truth, then yes, you are absolutely correct. n/t ieoeja Apr 2016 #50

Just pointing out that your argument is not universally accepted so it is not "the truth" hack89 Apr 2016 #51

That one there blamed Bill Clinton for 9/11 Rex Apr 2016 #235

No I didn't. nt hack89 May 2016 #273

The Constitution deathrind Apr 2016 #58

In the Fourth "The people" "parcularly describes" "the persons." Sorry, individual. Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #79

Even taking your friend's definition at face value no single instance of "the people" Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2016 #80

Yet those same framers went back to their respective states and protected an individual right? X_Digger Apr 2016 #192

Explain to me what part of the Second Amendment limits firearm ownership to militia members TeddyR Apr 2016 #47

"Enforce?" "Enforcement" has happened, just not the way you think. Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #76

Stop. Indydem Apr 2016 #31

You stop. yallerdawg Apr 2016 #38

"your so-called right is depriving us of our lives!" Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2016 #82

Game, set, match. Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #81

Read the preamble... beevul Apr 2016 #62

We should waive the Second Amendment treestar Apr 2016 #20

The 2A does not stop strict gun control laws hack89 Apr 2016 #26

Well by all means. Indydem Apr 2016 #35

Let's just get rid of the amendments that results in 30,000 deaths annually Orrex Apr 2016 #40

How about several million dead iraqis and the voting that led up to it? N/T beevul Apr 2016 #64

Fine by me Travis_0004 Apr 2016 #114

I'd respect gun apologists more Orrex Apr 2016 #119

I dont care about your respect. Travis_0004 Apr 2016 #125

You're a gun apologist. I know what you care about. Orrex Apr 2016 #165

You do not, in fact, know what they care about. You *believe* you know what they care about friendly_iconoclast Apr 2016 #173

So the Second Amendment TeddyR Apr 2016 #135

If you want me to respond, then don't make up opinions and assign them to me. Orrex Apr 2016 #164

Upthread you 'asssigned' feelings to an entire group of people, most of whom you've never met friendly_iconoclast Apr 2016 #175

how is the 2A responsible for all of that? as far as murders go, you'd need statistics on how many dionysus Apr 2016 #176

"our biggest problem, IMO, is that we are a sick people who resort to violence way too much." Orrex Apr 2016 #184

"minimally controlled right" DonP Apr 2016 #200

That's about 1.5 deaths annually per law, so yes. Minimal. Orrex Apr 2016 #214

So what law, that will still pass SCOTUS review, do you propose? DonP Apr 2016 #218

Since you've got all the answers, tell me what would work. Orrex Apr 2016 #224

Typical control fan, not a practical idea in your head, just whining DonP Apr 2016 #226

I have proposed many ideas, and gun zealots call all of them non-starters Orrex Apr 2016 #227

They *are* non-starters, as they are demands and not compromises friendly_iconoclast Apr 2016 #229

Just go back to making angry, silly posts online and make yourself feel good DonP Apr 2016 #230

"A 100% federal sales tax on all guns purchased in the US." EX500rider Apr 2016 #239

Because they most likely were. beevul Apr 2016 #240

Why publicly accessible? What purpose would that serve? Marengo May 2016 #260

Why is the record of my home's ownership publicly available? Orrex May 2016 #262

Nice try, but bullshit. Does that public ownership record list all the personal property inside... Marengo May 2016 #264

You're silly. Orrex May 2016 #265

Yet another bovine bowl movement... Marengo May 2016 #267

Why are you so frightened? I find that pitiable. Orrex May 2016 #269

With no rational counterpoint, you resort to emotion... Marengo May 2016 #272

Now there's a tepid response. Orrex May 2016 #277

It was sufficient to counter your repeated arguments by assertion friendly_iconoclast May 2016 #288

As I expected, extracted fully formed from your rectum... Marengo May 2016 #300

You seem very interested in my rectum. Why is that? Orrex May 2016 #301

As I expected, no valid counter argument to support your position... Marengo May 2016 #302

What is your definition of a "gun zealot"? Marengo May 2016 #303

Holy projection Batman. beevul May 2016 #305

Oh, I noticed you forgot to post a detailed list of the personal possessions in your home... Marengo May 2016 #309

Are the walls of your home transparent? Marengo May 2016 #298

Your problem with heller is based on your misunderstanding of the bill of rights... beevul Apr 2016 #242

"our biggest problem, IMO, is that we are a sick people who resort to violence way too much." EX500rider Apr 2016 #238

i'd say humans in general. since we're the best joint on the block, i'd expect us to be less dionysus May 2016 #336

Anti-gunners are the ones deliberately misreading amendment 2. beevul Apr 2016 #215

3/5th of person was a bad thing as well, but as the irrational might say of the constitution... LanternWaste Apr 2016 #78

Repealing the second wouldn't remove the right, either. X_Digger Apr 2016 #190

I'm just trying to get them on record. Indydem Apr 2016 #197

More Guns = more gun deaths Botany Apr 2016 #7

So how do you explain a 50% reduction in our murder rate? hack89 Apr 2016 #9

I have hunted and owned guns for years and I'm sickened by the bloodshed caused by guns Botany Apr 2016 #15

Ok. So you must be happy that gun violence continues to decline. hack89 Apr 2016 #16

Never been safer. yallerdawg Apr 2016 #18

Two thirds of which are suicides hack89 Apr 2016 #25

Why? Indydem Apr 2016 #27

Gun control advocates have always padded the numbers with suicides. hack89 Apr 2016 #33

I am aware. Indydem Apr 2016 #36

Suicide using a gun is not gun violence? yallerdawg Apr 2016 #37

It is a personal choice. hack89 Apr 2016 #39

Suicide using a gun TeddyR Apr 2016 #49

The gun creates the opportunity. yallerdawg Apr 2016 #53

If guns create the opportunity, then so do ropes and razorblades. cleanhippie Apr 2016 #54

The survival rate and opportunity to say wait... yallerdawg Apr 2016 #55

None of that have to do with "creating the opportunity" to kill oneself. cleanhippie Apr 2016 #74

Go on, admit it, you're just a gun-worshiper trying to push your religion on others. Period. stone space Apr 2016 #231

Go on, admit it, you're just a gun-grabber trying to push your religion on others. Period. cleanhippie Apr 2016 #232

"Gun-Grabber"??? Seriously??? On a Democratic Board??? WTF??? stone space Apr 2016 #236

Did you think "Democrat" and "anti-gun" ran hand in hand? beevul Apr 2016 #243

And there is with a rope? beevul Apr 2016 #66

I know... deathrind Apr 2016 #59

Sure, as long a suicide by hanging is 'rope violence'... beevul Apr 2016 #65

A rope, a pill, a height... yallerdawg Apr 2016 #67

Guns in America are not sold for suicide, not were they created for it. beevul Apr 2016 #68

Guns were created to end life. zappaman Apr 2016 #70

Yet, every enforcement of gun control laws involves people carrying guns. Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2016 #85

If that is their true purpose, then 99.9% of gun owners are using them wrong. Waldorf Apr 2016 #105

Not of the user. beevul Apr 2016 #122

I'll keep my eye out for a... yallerdawg Apr 2016 #71

Because you said so? cleanhippie Apr 2016 #77

Right, and we'll keep our eyes open for the Rope Violence Policy Center... beevul Apr 2016 #130

You want an anti-gun person to be factual? cleanhippie Apr 2016 #75

You peoples obsession with opposing any measure of common sense... yallerdawg Apr 2016 #90

Nothing you've said is common sense. cleanhippie Apr 2016 #91

A gun is not a razor or a rope or a pill. yallerdawg Apr 2016 #99

I'm obfuscating? suicide by gun, pill, rope or razor is exactly the same thing: suicide. cleanhippie Apr 2016 #128

Who said they were? beevul Apr 2016 #137

My motive is simple. yallerdawg Apr 2016 #141

Bullshit. beevul Apr 2016 #144

Bullshit my ass! yallerdawg Apr 2016 #152

You are for treating gun ownership as a privilege rather than a right. beevul Apr 2016 #154

Is this an inviolable right? yallerdawg Apr 2016 #156

Its a constitutionally protected right. beevul Apr 2016 #159

Some judges interpreted it as a restricted "right." yallerdawg Apr 2016 #161

It has been posted here sarisataka Apr 2016 #96

Well regulated is the majority opinion. yallerdawg Apr 2016 #100

I never suggested sarisataka Apr 2016 #102

I have no idea what you are talking about. yallerdawg Apr 2016 #104

Your refusal to address sarisataka Apr 2016 #106

Still no idea what you are talking about. yallerdawg Apr 2016 #107

No innuendo, sarisataka Apr 2016 #117

And you peoples insistence on treating a right as if its a privilege... beevul Apr 2016 #126

The Republican majority in Congress... yallerdawg Apr 2016 #132

Ever heard of a classic liberal? beevul Apr 2016 #140

Also known as a Libertarian? yallerdawg Apr 2016 #143

And people say repukes are trying to make "liberal" a dirty word... beevul Apr 2016 #145

You said "classic liberal." yallerdawg Apr 2016 #147

Shit. My mistake. I didn't realize you were the arbiter of all that is liberal. beevul Apr 2016 #149

When, exactly, were *you* made zampolit here? Discussion at DU is up to the management... friendly_iconoclast Apr 2016 #178

You call this discussion? yallerdawg Apr 2016 #180

I *could* call it "slacktivist culture warriors attempt to sling bullshit, and get called on it" friendly_iconoclast Apr 2016 #182

Well, your adding so much to the conversation. yallerdawg Apr 2016 #186

"You all are like... professionals or something?" CT? Really? That's a reach even for you lot friendly_iconoclast Apr 2016 #188

This has what to do with the OP or thread? yallerdawg Apr 2016 #191

I know. beevul Apr 2016 #123

Is jumping off a bridge to kill yourself "bridge violence"? EX500rider Apr 2016 #108

A bridge is not a gun. yallerdawg Apr 2016 #109

A bridge isn't a lot of things... EX500rider Apr 2016 #110

The American Psycholological Association... yallerdawg Apr 2016 #111

If I get drunk and mow down a bunch of kids in my car is the car responsible? EX500rider Apr 2016 #113

What about if the car was designed... yallerdawg Apr 2016 #116

Explain how a gun with sights designed to be used from behind... beevul Apr 2016 #142

Sights are used for distance. yallerdawg Apr 2016 #146

Bzzt. beevul Apr 2016 #148

This is about considering suicide an act of gun violence? yallerdawg Apr 2016 #151

This is about holding you to account for the obviously untrue things you say. beevul Apr 2016 #153

What are guns for? yallerdawg Apr 2016 #155

They're for shooting, not for suicide. beevul Apr 2016 #157

So when I shoot the gun pressed to my temple... yallerdawg Apr 2016 #158

LOL beevul Apr 2016 #163

So we are right back to not counting suicide with a gun... yallerdawg Apr 2016 #166

You can't help it can you... beevul Apr 2016 #174

No more than suicide via hanging is "rope violence"... friendly_iconoclast Apr 2016 #177

One more time. yallerdawg Apr 2016 #181

"A rope is not a gun" Yet if one commits suicide with that rope, you are just as dead friendly_iconoclast Apr 2016 #183

From wiki: yallerdawg Apr 2016 #187

A Wikipedia cite! Cool- I've also got one , in post #188 friendly_iconoclast Apr 2016 #189

Except I don't wander around looking for some post. yallerdawg Apr 2016 #193

Is hanging rope violence? Duckhunter935 Apr 2016 #208

Shift change? yallerdawg Apr 2016 #210

"Shift change?" More conspiracy theory? One's just as likely as the other... friendly_iconoclast Apr 2016 #219

Oh, I see. NOW is the shift change. yallerdawg Apr 2016 #221

"I'm going to be posting...some of her common sense solutions" Are they sensible and reasonable? friendly_iconoclast Apr 2016 #222

Again with the anti-gun rhetoric. yallerdawg Apr 2016 #223

Let's go over your post, as it could stand a good fisking: friendly_iconoclast Apr 2016 #228

Less people have guns. The ones that do have guns have more of them. Multiple gun murders (especiall MillennialDem Apr 2016 #41

Just like Australia. Imagine that. nt hack89 Apr 2016 #42

I think the true thing people are saying is that it's not the number of guns, but the gun ownership MillennialDem Apr 2016 #43

Your OP title is the precise contention that has been Hammerated, prima facie. nt Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #84

How many gun murders happen in Japan? Botany Apr 2016 #86

Probably few. And few by knife. And few by beating. And few by club. And few by... Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #92

They have almost none because they don't have all these fucking guns like we do Botany Apr 2016 #97

I just don't see the Japanese killing 300,000 fellow citizens with machetes, as in Rwanda. Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #101

Great points, though I disagree on guns dreamnightwind Apr 2016 #196

Thank you for your views. Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #201

Good for Australia TeddyR Apr 2016 #10

Yeah, way down to a mere 30K per year. That's almost zero! Orrex Apr 2016 #46

2/3 of those gun deaths are suicides TeddyR Apr 2016 #52

Well you can't have it both ways Orrex Apr 2016 #57

Why do you care if the murder is committed with a gun or a knife? TeddyR Apr 2016 #60

As always, that question is a red herring Orrex Apr 2016 #61

Because the US *non-gun* murder rate is higher than Australia's entire murder rate, guns included friendly_iconoclast Apr 2016 #179

And yet the US murder rate is below both the world average & median: EX500rider Apr 2016 #244

Link, please. Orrex Apr 2016 #245

link: EX500rider Apr 2016 #246

So, among the nominally stable developed world... Orrex Apr 2016 #248

Do I consider the US being below the worldwide avg and median for murder good? yes. EX500rider Apr 2016 #249

That's a silly and ill-considered standard Orrex Apr 2016 #250

Finland? lol, population 5 million-NY city has about 8 million EX500rider Apr 2016 #253

If we're such a shithole of diversity in your opinion... Orrex Apr 2016 #254

Not much correlation between gun ownership rate and murder rate.. EX500rider Apr 2016 #255

You're right: 30K per year is better than catastrophic genocide Orrex Apr 2016 #257

Except we don't have 30k gun murders..under 9,000 in a country of over 300 million EX500rider May 2016 #258

"And is that homicide by gun?" Who cares? What difference does the method make to the victims... friendly_iconoclast Apr 2016 #247

From a country that just ordered new submarines from us, to deliver death from a distance. jtuck004 Apr 2016 #12

Huh? treestar Apr 2016 #22

The Australians have decided to go with French submarines. nt hack89 Apr 2016 #34

Sous-marins français sont beaucoup mieux que les sous-marins américains n/t Violet_Crumble Apr 2016 #169

Correlation doesn't equal causation davidn3600 Apr 2016 #19

The number of individuals and households owning guns (at least per capita/percent) has been shrinkin MillennialDem Apr 2016 #44

This may not be true, as some states require citizens to register themselves... Eleanors38 Apr 2016 #88

From November 2015: "Gun Ownership in (Massachusetts) Increases 66% since 2010" friendly_iconoclast Apr 2016 #185

Not only that, how many new FOID cards issued in Illinois in the last few years? beevul Apr 2016 #195

Increase of Illinois FOID Cards from 1.6 million to over 2.0 in 24 months DonP Apr 2016 #203

Thats very interesting Don. beevul Apr 2016 #212

It's very important to their faith based POV, that Illinois be seen as an anomaly DonP Apr 2016 #213

ROFL beevul Apr 2016 #216

K and R! HuckleB Apr 2016 #73

US rates dropped from 7.0 to 3.4 for the same period. jmg257 Apr 2016 #87

Yet, the gun fanciers keep snapping them up. Here's gun lovers lined up to buy Hoyt Apr 2016 #112

Stereotyping and judging people sarisataka Apr 2016 #120

So now you think TeddyR Apr 2016 #136

I don't think we will. Things may change, they may not, but this is not Australia. n jmg257 Apr 2016 #160

Probably true, we have too many sick little losers who need a gun in their pants Hoyt Apr 2016 #167

Yep. Can't underestimate the number of folks who feel safer with guns then they do without. jmg257 Apr 2016 #168

Australia decided those types are a blight on society, hopefully we will too. Hoyt Apr 2016 #170

200 years of history... sendero Apr 2016 #94

We'd never go for that. Turbineguy Apr 2016 #95

20 years of data on Australia's gun control miss the key point Albertoo Apr 2016 #115

Nothing to do with 'merica. onehandle Apr 2016 #121

It's got everything to do with America Albertoo Apr 2016 #127

Thanks for cluing me in on that so obvious key point! Violet_Crumble Apr 2016 #131

I take a longer view than opinion polls Albertoo Apr 2016 #133

That key point I mentioned isn't opinion. It's a fact. Violet_Crumble Apr 2016 #134

What I'm saying is that 'mass' shootings are a blip compared to upheavals Albertoo Apr 2016 #138

Nope. Still weirder than weird. Violet_Crumble Apr 2016 #162

I suppose you are not keen on History Albertoo Apr 2016 #171

Raise that Blue Tarp of Freedom! stone space Apr 2016 #202

that's because they allow concealed Great Whites. WinkyDink Apr 2016 #124

Lets start by banning foreign gun sales WDIM Apr 2016 #129

Most distributed weapon in the world = AK47. Not US made. Albertoo Apr 2016 #139

Yes it is! WDIM Apr 2016 #199

"USA exporting Terror since 1960!" Not with *those* guns, it isn't. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2016 #220

OK, OK, but the world market of AK47's is predominantly out of US hands. Albertoo Apr 2016 #241

How much money sarisataka Apr 2016 #194

How much of the Bill of Rights do you want to take away to make us safe? Odin2005 Apr 2016 #225

LOL Skittles Apr 2016 #251

How many other amendments actively enable thousands of murders annually? Orrex May 2016 #270

Voting rights enabled the deaths of millions... beevul May 2016 #274

Well of course it works, the nation decided to destroy the majority of their guns! Rex Apr 2016 #233

Lots of bloody hands in this thread. Darb Apr 2016 #252

Whose hands are bloody? Marengo May 2016 #261

Those that insist upon defending the indefensible at every turn. Darb May 2016 #263

Well, spewing falsehoods isn't helping your case. beevul May 2016 #275

Quit pretending and wash your hands. Darb May 2016 #293

Tell me more... beevul May 2016 #304

"(W)ash your hands...There is blood on them." Got your rhetoric from Pamela Geller, did you? friendly_iconoclast May 2016 #306

What do you think is "sensible gun control" TeddyR May 2016 #278

Firstly, the second doesn't say what you think it says. Darb May 2016 #294

OK then- in your own words, tell us what *you* think it says? friendly_iconoclast May 2016 #307

Exactly what it says, and how it was written. Darb Jun 2016 #337

The end of it *does* say "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #338

You just ignored the whole amendment Darb Jun 2016 #339

I'm sure you feel better after spouting that, but your logic is still faulty friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #340

Yes you are, you and your allies, the Republican Party and the NRA. Darb Jun 2016 #341

I see you're sticking with the demagoguery schtick, and adding misrepresentation (or ignorance) friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #342

Those of the enablers Matrosov May 2016 #266

Preserved for posterity. beevul May 2016 #276

No need Matrosov May 2016 #281

Just like all drinkers have blood on their hands. hack89 May 2016 #308

False analogy Matrosov May 2016 #321

"ALL gun owners have blood on their hands." hack89 May 2016 #324

Because gun owners enable criminals Matrosov May 2016 #327

But drinkers don't enable DUIs? hack89 May 2016 #329

Thanks for pointing out that ones' 'special pleading': friendly_iconoclast May 2016 #331

I cut my hand TeddyR May 2016 #279

I doubt the founding fathers could've ever foreseen the current gun violence Matrosov May 2016 #282

ALL gun owners have blood on their hands. sarisataka May 2016 #280

I'm not going to apologize for them Matrosov May 2016 #283

It is irrelevant sarisataka May 2016 #284

Yes, they do have blood on their hands Matrosov May 2016 #285

What about the people sarisataka May 2016 #286

Depends on their motive Matrosov May 2016 #322

I vote Democrat because sarisataka May 2016 #328

Fuck your Pamela Gellerish theory of collective guilt- same tune, different lyrics friendly_iconoclast May 2016 #290

Just as those who drink responsible have the blood of DUI victims on *their* hands, eh? pablo_marmol May 2016 #317

Uh, no Matrosov May 2016 #323

Uh, yes- you've blamed the >99% of gun owners that have never shot anyone and never will friendly_iconoclast May 2016 #330

Tap dancing and dodging, as FI has pointed out. pablo_marmol May 2016 #332

So in your sick, twisted upside-down world....... pablo_marmol May 2016 #289

*That* one should consider forming a duo with Pamela Geller, and releasing a single titled: friendly_iconoclast May 2016 #291

* pablo_marmol May 2016 #314

Didn't push you anywhere I'd bet. Darb May 2016 #296

You're correct -- it didn't push me anywhere since I don't vote GOP. pablo_marmol May 2016 #313

Yes. YES. YES!! Matrosov May 2016 #325

No. NO. NO!! pablo_marmol May 2016 #333

BINGO. Darb May 2016 #295

Are you owning it? Are you agreeing that you have bloody hands? Marengo May 2016 #311

How about your hands, are they blood free? Marengo May 2016 #310

They are Matrosov May 2016 #326

Blood which stains the hands may originate from many sources, not just guns... Marengo May 2016 #335

I disagree. We need to repeal restrictive gun laws, and continue making progress. Kang Colby May 2016 #268

Not any gun. Darb May 2016 #297

Huh? Kang Colby May 2016 #299

This message was self-deleted by its author pablo_marmol May 2016 #315

wow......... Takket May 2016 #287

On mental health -- here's how Kamala Harris has fumbled **BIG TIME**: pablo_marmol May 2016 #316

Demand creates it's own supply. The Controllers haven't figured this out....... pablo_marmol May 2016 #318

This message was self-deleted by its author pablo_marmol May 2016 #319