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LeftishBrit

(41,481 posts)

118. True but even if you only take the adult life expectancy, things have improved a lot

Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:02 AM

Apr 2016

If someone in Britain or America in 1900 made it to the age of 20, they could expect on average to live to their early 60s - about a 10-year gain on their life expectancy at birth. Nowadays, they could expect to live to their early 80s - only a slight increase over the expectation at birth. Even so, it's a big improvement. And of course the reduction in infant/childhood mortality is a great improvement in itself.

My major point is that it is surely inappropriate to dismiss the advantages of modern medicine just because not EVERYONE died without it. Should we dismiss the problems of homeless people because after all many cavemen survived despite not having houses to live in? (This is responding to the previous post that sparked my reply, not to your post.)

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We Need to Stop Treating Naturopaths Like They�re Medical Doctors [View all] cleanhippie Apr 2016 OP

K&R for science and reason! nt Dr Hobbitstein Apr 2016 #1

Unfortunately, those that choose naturopaths over medical doctors have rejected reason altogether. cleanhippie Apr 2016 #3

Any of the naturopaths I've known would recomend just that JackInGreen Apr 2016 #28

Yes, and U.S. law emphatically does not regard Hortensis Apr 2016 #60

Uh, many of them think otherwise. HuckleB Apr 2016 #69

It should be illegal HassleCat Apr 2016 #2

Dr. Quackenbush, ND (Not a Doctor) R&K nt longship Apr 2016 #4

What is your problem with woo? LAGC Apr 2016 #5

It's difficult to argue with such sound reasoning. cleanhippie Apr 2016 #13

You forgot chi. It's all about chi, dude. I mean....woah, chi. whatthehey Apr 2016 #22

Of course it's all about the Chi!! EX500rider Apr 2016 #119

Well my wife have been messed over with medical doctors too hankthecrank Apr 2016 #6

What "good cures" did doctors eliminate? HuckleB Apr 2016 #7

They call you crank for a reason shenmue Apr 2016 #11

Ha! You beat me to it n/t PasadenaTrudy Apr 2016 #54

Cool story, bro. cleanhippie Apr 2016 #15

I agree std. healthcare messed up. Too much about $ and networkbuilding /removing independnt drs and lunasun Apr 2016 #25

And they care more about how much they can bill you... scscholar Apr 2016 #55

Hogwash. HuckleB Apr 2016 #59

Are you trying to post on a smartphone or is something else going on? snooper2 Apr 2016 #68

A fairly extensive study of homeopathic remedies was recently conducted by�well, I Gene Debs Apr 2016 #8

I bet they're good for treating dehydration elljay Apr 2016 #27

I also heard about that study robbob Apr 2016 #48

Yet it's remarkable how widespread the products are FBaggins Apr 2016 #81

Whole Foods and its imitators like New Seasons sell it in the impulse section. HuckleB Apr 2016 #106

Homeopathy isn't a protected term, anyone can label any supplement as "homeopathic" and... Humanist_Activist Apr 2016 #109

Same with chiropractors... CanSocDem Apr 2016 #9

Nobody is a doctor? Are you kidding? shenmue Apr 2016 #12

Uhm, yeah. cleanhippie Apr 2016 #23

Obviously... CanSocDem Apr 2016 #35

Stop taking the word of accredited medical schools and take yours instead? cleanhippie Apr 2016 #40

It's about time we stopped pretending... MattSh Apr 2016 #10

Lifespan in ancient times was 30 if you were lucky shenmue Apr 2016 #14

A large reason for this was death in childhood and childbirth OnlinePoker Apr 2016 #70

I'll bet trauma decreased the average lifespan considerably. Wilms Apr 2016 #111

I'm sure you're trying to make a point, but I'm not sure you know what it is. cleanhippie Apr 2016 #17

Okay sure, getting ill might not kill ya...but a broken bone or any number of internal Rex Apr 2016 #20

Sure they did. It's just that whatthehey Apr 2016 #26

1/3 to 1/2 of Europe died of the plague. Today we can treat it with a $4 antibiotic. LeftyMom Apr 2016 #33

People died much younger on average before modern medicine. LeftishBrit Apr 2016 #36

The median is more informative than the average dreamnightwind Apr 2016 #117

True but even if you only take the adult life expectancy, things have improved a lot LeftishBrit Apr 2016 #118

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Apr 2016 #44

Jesus fucking Christ, the evidence is right in front of your eyes, visit a graveyard... Humanist_Activist Apr 2016 #46

My mother almost died as a child of scarletina. That was only 65 years ago. Starry Messenger Apr 2016 #133

Here come the anti-science people! shenmue Apr 2016 #16

Like clockwork. cleanhippie Apr 2016 #18

So how's that big doctor strike in the UK going? (eom) CanSocDem Apr 2016 #37

Don't know. I don't live in the UK. cleanhippie Apr 2016 #41

Big Pseudoscience! lol PasadenaTrudy Apr 2016 #57

Adults can make decisions, kids depend on adults...that is where I draw the line. Rex Apr 2016 #19

not to be confused with naturopathic physicians like the one who saved my life Viva_La_Revolution Apr 2016 #21

Please, elaborate on that. cleanhippie Apr 2016 #24

Interesting. HuckleB Apr 2016 #32

i decided not to count that first doctor, since to be fair i only had a few symptoms back then Viva_La_Revolution Apr 2016 #39

Interesting, so they use conventional methods of diagnosis, and then treats with alternative... Humanist_Activist Apr 2016 #49

that was 10 years ago, a surgeon cured it. my NP diagnosed hashimotos Viva_La_Revolution Apr 2016 #61

So, I'm assuming they didn't give you the "conventional" treatment plan for managing your.. Humanist_Activist Apr 2016 #72

no, she did not prescribe a synthetic T4 and tell me to come back in 6months Viva_La_Revolution Apr 2016 #77

Which is also prescribed by regular MDs all the time, though it isn't as preferred as the.... Humanist_Activist Apr 2016 #108

NP? Now they're co-opting the letters for Nurse Practitioners? HuckleB Apr 2016 #76

No! i am on a tablet and too lazy to spell it out. lame Viva_La_Revolution Apr 2016 #79

Zzzzzzz. HuckleB Apr 2016 #80

NDs i looked it up and a link to calm your fears about the money and quality issues Viva_La_Revolution Apr 2016 #83

Pretend doctors should not be paid, period. HuckleB Apr 2016 #84

she was doing it wrong. from my link.. Viva_La_Revolution Apr 2016 #87

You haven't even bothered to read a tiny bit of what she wrote. HuckleB Apr 2016 #88

You said it right here passiveporcupine Apr 2016 #101

And a lot of the content is nonsense, to boot. HuckleB Apr 2016 #104

Always does. cleanhippie Apr 2016 #42

except it didn't change, no matter your tag teaming Viva_La_Revolution Apr 2016 #63

Sure. HuckleB Apr 2016 #64

If it makes you feel better to think that... cleanhippie Apr 2016 #66

prove i am lying instead of just insinuating Viva_La_Revolution Apr 2016 #73

Meh. cleanhippie Apr 2016 #107

info link Viva_La_Revolution Apr 2016 #38

See this just shows how much bullshit they are full off, from the first two sentences: Humanist_Activist Apr 2016 #62

you are still purposely distorting the facts Viva_La_Revolution Apr 2016 #67

What traditional methods? Humanist_Activist Apr 2016 #71

Are you not concerned with the length of training to become a Naturopathic Doctor? passiveporcupine Apr 2016 #91

proof no one actually reads the links i posted. i guess my doc is best of both worlds Viva_La_Revolution Apr 2016 #94

A dentist only needs four years of training passiveporcupine Apr 2016 #96

4+4 does not equal 8 in your world? Viva_La_Revolution Apr 2016 #97

a GP typically gets eleven to sixteen years of training. passiveporcupine Apr 2016 #99

Indeed. It's ludicrous. HuckleB Apr 2016 #100

What is a naturopathic physician? longship Apr 2016 #78

This Veteran was sick of pills.... chknltl Apr 2016 #29

PPI's might be necessary, especially for someone that has a lap-sleeve bypass. AtheistCrusader Apr 2016 #31

Lots of evidence-based medical doctors also recommend a change of diet. JDPriestly Apr 2016 #45

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Apr 2016 #47

I think most conventional doctors would recommend diet changes and other methods... Humanist_Activist Apr 2016 #51

PPIs have always been not good for long-term use REP Apr 2016 #86

One thing to make sure of with acid reflux... roamer65 Apr 2016 #120

I have had a few episodes that may be related. chknltl Apr 2016 #132

The chiropractors that give babies 'adjustments' for colic should be first against the wall. AtheistCrusader Apr 2016 #30

At least Australia is looking to rectify that situation... kdmorris Apr 2016 #58

Gwyneth Paltrow's goop saved my life! progressoid Apr 2016 #34

Good heavens! It depends. JDPriestly Apr 2016 #43

That doesn't justify quackery. HuckleB Apr 2016 #50

Very true. JDPriestly Apr 2016 #56

The bean-bag in the microwave (heating pad) is evidence-based. cleanhippie Apr 2016 #65

No shit, I really don't understand this argument, there are a lot of remedies that are evidence... Humanist_Activist Apr 2016 #74

Quit the BINARY thinking and wake up! Both 'sides' ! Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2016 #52

Well, that's the most ridiculous thing I've read all goddamned day. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2016 #89

Well you can't find fault with it, so you make a personal attack. We see that. . nt Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2016 #92

I find plenty wrong with it. Act_of_Reparation Apr 2016 #98

You've had much time & 2 opportunities to actually post something meaningful, but Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2016 #103

I've had much time to do things either more pressing or more enjoyable... Act_of_Reparation Apr 2016 #129

Thank you for responding in depth Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2016 #134

Lots of good ideas here. Thanks. You're right that binary thinking is very hard for some people pnwmom Apr 2016 #114

that attitude is what let HIV run rampant in Honduras after it arrived 1983 MisterP Apr 2016 #53

Say what? HuckleB Apr 2016 #110

That's child abuse just making a child drink a horseradish and onion smoothie LynneSin Apr 2016 #75

Its hard to fix stupid. nt BootinUp Apr 2016 #82

Why one naturopath quit after watching her peers treat cancer patients HuckleB Apr 2016 #85

This message was self-deleted by its author felix_numinous Apr 2016 #90

The case mentioned in the OP was in a place with socialized medicine. EllieBC Apr 2016 #95

I just started following PasadenaTrudy Apr 2016 #93

Are you talking about Britt Hermes? HuckleB Apr 2016 #102

Yes! n/t PasadenaTrudy Apr 2016 #105

I'd like to see a study comparing results for naturopaths and regular docs. Stevepol Apr 2016 #112

Head to Naturopathic Diaries, and read the reality. HuckleB Apr 2016 #115

U.W. Medical Center, one of the top medical schools in the US, disagrees with you. pnwmom Apr 2016 #113

Yoyu used the term allopathic MattBaggins Apr 2016 #135

No, I didn't use the term. Those words came directly from the University of Washington web site. pnwmom Apr 2016 #138

DU progress Johnny2X2X Apr 2016 #116

+1 HuckleB Apr 2016 #122

For profit hospitals and high cost felix_numinous Apr 2016 #121

That's quite the conspiracy theory. HuckleB Apr 2016 #123

Seriously, where do you come up with this nonsense? ND's are being MURDERED? Seriously? cleanhippie Apr 2016 #125

The usual CT sites. Funny thing is that the poster mixed up two different conspiracies. HuckleB Apr 2016 #126

it would be better to provide education. AlbertCat Apr 2016 #127

My point was education felix_numinous Apr 2016 #128

Integrating scams and debunked "treatment" helps no one. HuckleB Apr 2016 #131

ABOUT alternative medicine in medical schools and to the public, AlbertCat Apr 2016 #136

Unfortunately, this nonsense is invading actual learning centers, too. HuckleB Apr 2016 #124

Homeopathy is totally useless Johnny2X2X Apr 2016 #130

I can't believe I forgot to rec this before! progressoid Apr 2016 #137

Some misinformation in this article (but the parents are still fucking morons) laundry_queen Apr 2016 #139

I was suffering from postpartum depression. My licensed naturopath recommended beer and marijuana .. HuckleB May 2016 #140

Naturopath gets light reprimand for doping documentary involvement HuckleB May 2016 #141

I already don't. But I get what you're saying. Iggo May 2016 #142

Naturopaths have no standard of care. HuckleB May 2016 #143