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In reply to the discussion: We Need to Stop Treating Naturopaths Like They’re Medical Doctors [View all]Act_of_Reparation
(9,116 posts)129. I've had much time to do things either more pressing or more enjoyable...
...than pointing out in painful detail why a ridiculous position is unworthy of my time and attention, especially when one considers that those who hold ridiculous positions and those who lack the knack for critical self-reflection necessary to change positions are typically cut from the same cloth. But no matter. It's Caturday, so here's why everything you've said so far is a metric cartload of bullshit.
Fact: Informed, educated (including or esp. self-educated) patients have the best outcomes.
For most patients, the primary source of information on their health is their physician, so it also helps if those treating the patients know what they're doing. Medical doctors usually go to medical school. Chiropractors, accupuncturists, naturopaths, and other peddlers of woo do not.
Study up your symptoms. Listen to your Medical Doctor (allopathic) / Naturopath. Ask lots of questions. Then study the diagnosis. Get second opinions for serious matters, time permitting.
With all that bouncing around between different PCP's and specialists, it's a good thing we have single payer healthcare to absorb the co... oh, right.
Fact: Naturopaths rarely have as much training and education as medical doctors. A few have more than most MDs (nothing is 100% one way or the other).
How many is "a few"? Can you reccomend any of them?
Pro tip: Naturopaths didn't get to be so popular by being honest about their credentials.
Better pro tip: Those few naturopaths who do have strong medical credentials still lie to people. See Dr. Oz.
Fact: Medical doctors are not generally trained in and not generally as open to alternative medicine as they should be and especially not as understanding of nutrition as they should be. Some are. Note: nothing is 100% one way or the other.
This fact is not actually a fact.
Medical researchers are constantly testing "natural remedies" for their therapeutic uses and effectiveness. Anyone current on their medical education should have a pretty good idea of where things stand. Seeing as many medical doctors must complete Continuing Medical Education (CME) credits to keep their jobs while naturopaths suffer no such compunction, it's a good bet your doctor knows more about the effectiveness of natural remedies than the woo peddler down the street.
This might be anecdotal, but it is worth pointing out that almost every medical college has a few faculty looking into alternative medicine as either primary or supportive treatments. How many woo-schools have actual physicians teaching the next generation of woo-peddlers actual medicine?
Are there exceptions? Sure. But honestly, what are the fucking odds?
Fact: Medical doctors tend to over-prescribe pills and surgery (because that is what they primarily study).
This fact is actually half-a-fact.
Doctors, as a trend, overprescribe. But it isn't because "that's what they study" (it's because in many cases, that's what patients want) and it doesn't mean your doctor is over-prescribing.
Fact: Naturopaths under-prescribe pills and surgery (because they aren't allowed to), but many of them (not all) will refer patients to MDs when appropriate.
Right. Naturopaths will refer you to someone who knows what they're doing. What, exactly, does that say about naturopathy?
Bottom-line: Trust science, inform yourself, keep an open mind, choose less medicine when it is a reasonable first approach and only when reasonable, stay rational and cautious, be ready to decide quickly when necessary, don't avoid drugs / surgery when it makes sense especially after trying other approaches.
Bottom-line: Naturopaths are not honest. They lie. They disseminate information that is not true to people who are either too trusting or too ideologically invested in "nature" to make informed decisions.
On paper, your suggestion makes sense. In practice... seriously, man. You need to get out more.
For example, I use very little doctoring (I know I have been very lucky so far) and place the highest priority on good nutrition & exercise.
Cool story, bro, but that's not naturopathy. That's common sense. Any doctor worth a fuck will tell you to do exactly that. And the naturopaths aren't peddling diet and exercise. They're peddling magic potions made from onion juice and pancake syrup to treat actual medical problems requiring actual medicine to treat.
Again, you're completely out of touch with the reality of the situation. People aren't using naturopathy as a preventative medicine with the intention of seeking actual medical treatment when necessary; they are using naturopathy as primary care, and doing so because the fucking naturopaths have turned anti-medical paranoia into a fucking cottage industry.
You don't bring hundreds of patients through your doors by playing on fears of the medical industry and expect them go to an actual doctor when they get actual sick. And you can't expect people to make informed decisions when you owe the entirety of your livelihood to spreading misinformation.
TL;DR: you can't rely on the average person to make an informed decision because the average person is no longer able to discern the difference between actual information and misinformation spread by the naturopathic industry. People making bad decision isn't the problem, the naturopaths are.
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We Need to Stop Treating Naturopaths Like They’re Medical Doctors [View all]
cleanhippie
Apr 2016
OP
Unfortunately, those that choose naturopaths over medical doctors have rejected reason altogether.
cleanhippie
Apr 2016
#3
I agree std. healthcare messed up. Too much about $ and networkbuilding /removing independnt drs and
lunasun
Apr 2016
#25
A fairly extensive study of homeopathic remedies was recently conducted by—well, I
Gene Debs
Apr 2016
#8
Whole Foods and its imitators like New Seasons sell it in the impulse section.
HuckleB
Apr 2016
#106
Homeopathy isn't a protected term, anyone can label any supplement as "homeopathic" and...
Humanist_Activist
Apr 2016
#109
I'm sure you're trying to make a point, but I'm not sure you know what it is.
cleanhippie
Apr 2016
#17
Okay sure, getting ill might not kill ya...but a broken bone or any number of internal
Rex
Apr 2016
#20
1/3 to 1/2 of Europe died of the plague. Today we can treat it with a $4 antibiotic.
LeftyMom
Apr 2016
#33
True but even if you only take the adult life expectancy, things have improved a lot
LeftishBrit
Apr 2016
#118
Jesus fucking Christ, the evidence is right in front of your eyes, visit a graveyard...
Humanist_Activist
Apr 2016
#46
My mother almost died as a child of scarletina. That was only 65 years ago.
Starry Messenger
Apr 2016
#133
not to be confused with naturopathic physicians like the one who saved my life
Viva_La_Revolution
Apr 2016
#21
i decided not to count that first doctor, since to be fair i only had a few symptoms back then
Viva_La_Revolution
Apr 2016
#39
Interesting, so they use conventional methods of diagnosis, and then treats with alternative...
Humanist_Activist
Apr 2016
#49
that was 10 years ago, a surgeon cured it. my NP diagnosed hashimotos
Viva_La_Revolution
Apr 2016
#61
So, I'm assuming they didn't give you the "conventional" treatment plan for managing your..
Humanist_Activist
Apr 2016
#72
no, she did not prescribe a synthetic T4 and tell me to come back in 6months
Viva_La_Revolution
Apr 2016
#77
Which is also prescribed by regular MDs all the time, though it isn't as preferred as the....
Humanist_Activist
Apr 2016
#108
NDs i looked it up and a link to calm your fears about the money and quality issues
Viva_La_Revolution
Apr 2016
#83
See this just shows how much bullshit they are full off, from the first two sentences:
Humanist_Activist
Apr 2016
#62
Are you not concerned with the length of training to become a Naturopathic Doctor?
passiveporcupine
Apr 2016
#91
proof no one actually reads the links i posted. i guess my doc is best of both worlds
Viva_La_Revolution
Apr 2016
#94
PPI's might be necessary, especially for someone that has a lap-sleeve bypass.
AtheistCrusader
Apr 2016
#31
I think most conventional doctors would recommend diet changes and other methods...
Humanist_Activist
Apr 2016
#51
The chiropractors that give babies 'adjustments' for colic should be first against the wall.
AtheistCrusader
Apr 2016
#30
No shit, I really don't understand this argument, there are a lot of remedies that are evidence...
Humanist_Activist
Apr 2016
#74
Well you can't find fault with it, so you make a personal attack. We see that. . nt
Bernardo de La Paz
Apr 2016
#92
You've had much time & 2 opportunities to actually post something meaningful, but
Bernardo de La Paz
Apr 2016
#103
I've had much time to do things either more pressing or more enjoyable...
Act_of_Reparation
Apr 2016
#129
Lots of good ideas here. Thanks. You're right that binary thinking is very hard for some people
pnwmom
Apr 2016
#114
U.W. Medical Center, one of the top medical schools in the US, disagrees with you.
pnwmom
Apr 2016
#113
No, I didn't use the term. Those words came directly from the University of Washington web site.
pnwmom
Apr 2016
#138
Seriously, where do you come up with this nonsense? ND's are being MURDERED? Seriously?
cleanhippie
Apr 2016
#125
The usual CT sites. Funny thing is that the poster mixed up two different conspiracies.
HuckleB
Apr 2016
#126
Some misinformation in this article (but the parents are still fucking morons)
laundry_queen
Apr 2016
#139