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PufPuf23

(9,972 posts)

23. How can one argue that in total the people and women of Libya are far worse off now and live in

Thu May 12, 2016, 02:44 PM

May 2016

Last edited Thu May 12, 2016, 07:02 PM - Edit history (1)

a hell on earth because of western intervention?

I did some quick research on that woman and book and it smells of an opportunistic piece of propaganda for the masses.

I believe that Libya would have been better off without Gadaffi, a dictator and head of a family cult of personality, who was not going to let go easily.

What occurred is afar worse case for Libya than if Gadaffi had remained in control for his natural life.

The women of Libya were far better off prior to the radical Islamists that now have violent control of Libya.

The social gains and benefits, no matter how incomplete, are gone.

IMO the western interventionists did not seriously have the good of Libya in mind when backing radical Islamists and then interventing by a bombing campaign to destroy the modernizing country for all intents and purposes.

Here is your hero:

Hillary Clinton 2016 - "We came we saw he died" Laughing About Gadhafi Libya

"

"

This video is unavailable.

Funny that and just today.

On Edit: Cool the video is back at the same youtube address. I was a paranoid CT. Oops.

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Facts about Libya under Gaddafi that you probably did not know about ! [View all] PufPuf23 May 2016 OP

install client regimes that will subordinate the country�s wealth and labor to imperialist corporate arcane1 May 2016 #1

Quite transparent what happened in Libya. PufPuf23 May 2016 #3

Gadaffi was involved in a lot of military adventures in other North African countries. Nitram May 2016 #70

But according to the OP SCantiGOP May 2016 #167

Gadaffi and every bullet point in your OP simply did NOT fit Hillary Clinton's business plan. CentralCoaster May 2016 #71

Not every Dictator hates there own country and people. snort May 2016 #74

The disaster of disaster capitalism. pangaia May 2016 #96

Not even close. puffy socks May 2016 #132

I have no argument with that about Gadaffi, I agree. PufPuf23 May 2016 #135

It's what NeoLiberals call "Humanitarian intervention". Funny how sufferring is actually much worse newthinking May 2016 #138

And what do you know about the suffering that wopuld have occired if Gaddafi had been left to... Nitram May 2016 #178

He may have even gone so far as to topple some incubators. frylock May 2016 #196

You of course, have an objective and peer-reviewed source to support your allegation, yes? LanternWaste May 2016 #187

"Hitler was very good for the economy" uhnope May 2016 #171

A guy who can't trust ANYONE, to the point where he has a facelift MADem May 2016 #140

"That's all of American history, summed up in a single sentence." I thought this was? Glassunion May 2016 #20

I do believe you nailed... yallerdawg May 2016 #25

Maybe that's why Saint Hillary of Walmart wanted to get Ghaddafi out of the way: Betty Karlson May 2016 #161

Sad to see what the Bush administration did... scscholar May 2016 #2

That would be Hillary Clinton and Obama who destroyed Libya nt riderinthestorm May 2016 #4

Time to crack a book, scholar. Wilms May 2016 #6

Huh? Gadaffi was removed and killed in 2011 under the Obama Administration with Clinton SOS. PufPuf23 May 2016 #9

The events leading up to that... scscholar May 2016 #98

What is your comment on what Hillary did to those poor people? nt ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #10

Ugh. SammyWinstonJack May 2016 #86

2003 was a wakeup for Gaddaffi 1939 May 2016 #94

There were a lot of Libyians that wanted to see him gone, obviously. FLPanhandle May 2016 #5

Oh obviously - TBF May 2016 #7

I guess it's like Cuba...except for the sexual assault brooklynite May 2016 #8

Like the Kuwaiti incubator babies? Mass rape allegations questioned by Amnesty mainer May 2016 #15

How can one argue that in total the people and women of Libya are far worse off now and live in PufPuf23 May 2016 #23

Yes indeed. arikara May 2016 #39

She is perhaps the most horrible democratic canddate in my lifetime of 72 years... pangaia May 2016 #99

Post removed Post removed May 2016 #49

I had not previously heard there was an email and Gadaffi assassination link. PufPuf23 May 2016 #55

Source Rass May 2016 #62

Thank you. eom. PufPuf23 May 2016 #63

A lot of our actions seem to be around fears of losing control of the monetary system (competition) newthinking May 2016 #139

Be careful! robbob May 2016 #57

DU has friending? whatthehey May 2016 #80

IDK robbob May 2016 #198

This Photo Sums Up Her Reign as Sect'y of State McKim May 2016 #176

Sad... deathrind May 2016 #137

Where did you hear/read that Libyans wanted him gone? nt ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #11

Well, there were a shitload of demonstrators in the streets early on. FLPanhandle May 2016 #14

Or maybe Hillary wanted to install a client regime to subordinate the country�s wealth... ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #18

Of course she did. polly7 May 2016 #24

Riiight FLPanhandle May 2016 #34

Riiiight. Pfffft! nt ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #36

The Libyan opposition were expat groups aligned with fundamentalist muslim groups newthinking May 2016 #141

The mobs were turned out by Saudi controlled mosques. Then leveymg May 2016 #160

There were a lot of fundamentalist tribal Libyans who hated him for not polly7 May 2016 #13

thank you... this is truth yourpaljoey May 2016 #134

Thanks Polly. I also posted a link about it. Most of the so called "arab springs" were not really newthinking May 2016 #143

Thanks very much for that link newthinking, very interesting. nt. polly7 May 2016 #144

Maybe google for a bit before opining. Wilms May 2016 #17

Typing "rainbows and puppies" is far less taxing. FlatBaroque May 2016 #26

Typing CIA is even quicker FLPanhandle May 2016 #41

Per your article... FLPanhandle May 2016 #40

"said one dissident" Wilms May 2016 #45

We have a peaceful way to remove our leaders FLPanhandle May 2016 #52

"the population"? Wilms May 2016 #58

No one is arguing things are better in Libya now. FLPanhandle May 2016 #65

How about if everyone stayed out? Wilms May 2016 #67

I agree that the US should stay out FLPanhandle May 2016 #73

OK. Good. Wilms May 2016 #83

The other side always has reasons for wanting particular politicians gone arikara May 2016 #29

Yes, but no one here has expressed those reasons. FLPanhandle May 2016 #54

He was also trying to improve the lives of people in all of Africa, polly7 May 2016 #12

I believe this is a major reason the west wanted him out of power. U4ikLefty May 2016 #153

I don't think life in Libya was quite the utopian experience as described above. LonePirate May 2016 #16

Please, do explain. nt ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #19

It wasn't too shabby either: Libya had the highest standard of living in Africa under Gadaffi CJCRANE May 2016 #21

Tripoli looks just like Baltimore, too. NuclearDem May 2016 #22

What is the matter with you that you support what happened to the common people who live in Libya? PufPuf23 May 2016 #27

I bet there was giggling. nt ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #35

That's a take on an old DU classic KamaAina May 2016 #105

Yea, and? ... ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #32

From Africa�s Wealthiest Democracy Under Gaddafi to Terrorist Haven After US Intervention polly7 May 2016 #28

"Democracy"? "US-led bombing campaign"? Try "dictatorship" and "French-led bombing campaign". nt ieoeja May 2016 #89

Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya polly7 May 2016 #102

You want to whitewash Gaddafi, do it on some other forum Blue_Tires May 2016 #30

man, you of all people say that? runaway hero May 2016 #154

Sigh. Criticizing the NATO led bombing is not synonymous with whitewashing Gaddafi. cali May 2016 #190

He was publicly sodomized with a sword FlatBaroque May 2016 #31

And Hillary Clinton finds that humorous. Hahaha. SammyWinstonJack May 2016 #91

All based on lies. And remember, this is AFTER Iraq. FlatBaroque May 2016 #93

OFFS. What is this glamorization of dictators doing here on DU? Tommy_Carcetti May 2016 #33

Your post is an excellent example of this: arcane1 May 2016 #37

The entire persona is reductionist absurdity. FlatBaroque May 2016 #82

Reductio ad absurdum is valid rhetoric. It is NOT a fallacy. . . nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2016 #157

Hey jberryhill May 2016 #42

Pinochet? The guy Nixon, Kissinger and CIA installed as a model for USA's future? Octafish May 2016 #43

I don't glamorize Gadaffi in this thread or elsewhere. PufPuf23 May 2016 #53

We were instrumental in installing Pinochet cali May 2016 #79

Clinton was against Gaddafi, therefore DUers need to find excuses to be for him. Donald Ian Rankin May 2016 #81

Mussolini was a competent administrator. The first Kim was a hero in the fight against Japan. ieoeja May 2016 #100

It's the knee-jerk regressive left uhnope May 2016 #174

Exposed: The "Humanitarian" War In Libya polly7 May 2016 #38

Wow. What a comprehensive post. Thank you. eom PufPuf23 May 2016 #44

You're welcome. polly7 May 2016 #48

All my adult life I have watched these foreign interventions in slow motion knowing that, PufPuf23 May 2016 #61

I agree with you completely. polly7 May 2016 #66

It's called "Backing Up Globalization with Military Might" nationalize the fed May 2016 #148

Holy God! And if Hillary is the next president, look out Iran! nt ChisolmTrailDem May 2016 #60

Wow, talk about comprehensively covering a subject zeemike May 2016 #75

For all that is wrong with DU FlatBaroque May 2016 #84

This would be an excellent OP. arcane1 May 2016 #90

+1000000 SammyWinstonJack May 2016 #97

Thank you for this incredible post. What we did to Libya is such a war crime. FighttheFuture May 2016 #104

Stunning. nt thereismore May 2016 #106

awesome post! nt lakeguy May 2016 #117

This needs its own thread Martin Eden May 2016 #184

from the article... spanone May 2016 #46

For a Dictator, he was doing a great job of making life better for Libya's neighbors, too. Octafish May 2016 #47

Hello my DU hero. eom. PufPuf23 May 2016 #56

He shared the country's wealth. FlatBaroque May 2016 #85

"Wonder what Qaddafi did to piss off Washington?" SunSeeker May 2016 #205

That may be so. Iran also or instead may have been responsible. Octafish May 2016 #209

No wonder they wanted him out of there. zeemike May 2016 #50

that's hilar-- oh, wait, you're serious. uhnope May 2016 #175

Oh please. Do try to inform yourself cali May 2016 #177

oh. you again. uhnope May 2016 #185

that individuals and corporations and others try to profit off this shit, is fact cali May 2016 #189

That's serio-- oh, wait, you're hilarious.. zeemike May 2016 #180

It burns. cali May 2016 #191

Some additional reading that is important: Maedhros May 2016 #51

Great article. Thank you Maedhros. nt. polly7 May 2016 #59

Thank you for adding to the thread. PufPuf23 May 2016 #68

Facts? yallerdawg May 2016 #64

So? If CNN did not at least in part respect the document, why continue to carry it on their website PufPuf23 May 2016 #69

This is like referencing a blog. yallerdawg May 2016 #76

I wondered at the time. snort May 2016 #72

Pretty fucking pathetic... tarheelsunc May 2016 #77

Several times in this thread I have stated I regarded Gadaffi a dictator but deliberately PufPuf23 May 2016 #78

You're being deliberately distorted by Clinton sycophants who can't do nuance. arcane1 May 2016 #88

I get that. Thank you. PufPuf23 May 2016 #92

Um, the OP links an iReport CNN blog. joshcryer May 2016 #109

Without intervention Libya would look like Syria. joshcryer May 2016 #108

The main point I meant to make in this thread is that the common people of Libya PufPuf23 May 2016 #112

If you act it can go two ways. joshcryer May 2016 #114

Yes, it is pathetic. murielm99 May 2016 #204

So the trains ran on time....lol EX500rider May 2016 #87

I prefer the current Italy, even if the trains run a bit late. greatauntoftriplets May 2016 #211

Gadaffi tried to make a billion dollar gift to Louis Farrakhan. oasis May 2016 #95

What major Presidential candidate said, speaking of Gaddafi: guillaumeb May 2016 #101

It tells me that moondust May 2016 #110

That also applies fairly well to the current SOS. In my view. guillaumeb May 2016 #116

If Qaddafi was such a great guy... dubyadiprecession May 2016 #103

Here are some more facts about Gaddafi puffy socks May 2016 #107

Okay, here's a complex theory, but I think I'm onto something. Peace Patriot May 2016 #111

Interesting and thoughtful. Thank you. eom PufPuf23 May 2016 #113

My thanks also for your insights. Fair makes one's head spin doesn't it? LongTomH May 2016 #170

Not sure what is more embarrassing..... Tommy_Carcetti May 2016 #115

Don't rain on this Tiger Beat circle jerk. Throd May 2016 #118

Who loves Gadaffi? I don't. PufPuf23 May 2016 #119

Qaddafi was one of the 10 richest men EVER in history Albertoo May 2016 #120

About the wealth attributed to Gadaffi - PufPuf23 May 2016 #121

You are conflating lots of things. Bottom line: Qaddafi was a greedy dictator Albertoo May 2016 #123

I never have said Gadaffi was a good nor honorable man. PufPuf23 May 2016 #126

Oh sure, the western intervention was not well handled Albertoo May 2016 #128

My very point. Gadaffi was weak sauce to the horror unleashed upon PufPuf23 May 2016 #130

The original sin was Iraq Albertoo May 2016 #133

Not to excuse the unnecessary intervention, but some of these "facts" sound too good to be true. TacoD May 2016 #122

I have noted that the "facts" are a "perfect" presentation of intention. PufPuf23 May 2016 #124

Well, it's clear why the oligarchy couldn't have any of that! nt valerief May 2016 #125

I am disappointed by those at DU that spin that because Gadaffi was an asshole PufPuf23 May 2016 #127

We know who they're supporting in the presidential election. nt valerief May 2016 #129

Shhhh. eom. PufPuf23 May 2016 #131

It's okay if I don't say the name. nt valerief May 2016 #182

nice propaganda Mosby May 2016 #136

Agree the points were incomplete initiatives and serve as anti-intervention propoganda. PufPuf23 May 2016 #142

Gadaffi may well be still alive today had he been less interventionist himself Kaleva May 2016 #145

Yes, it was a classic oil state dictatorship. The government bought the loyalty of the people with Zynx May 2016 #146

If you read the thread my point was about the intervention and PufPuf23 May 2016 #147

Many military dictators had good intentions and policies bhikkhu May 2016 #149

I have made at least 10 posts in this thread stating the intent of this OP is PufPuf23 May 2016 #150

I don't have any first-hand knowledge about the intent of the revolution bhikkhu May 2016 #151

Forget about it. You don't even read before you respond. PufPuf23 May 2016 #152

"... it turned out well enough, eventually." < If you are white, perhaps. For a person of color, or jtuck004 May 2016 #192

Given that your OP is a 16 bullet point plus extolling of the virtues of Gadaffi.... Tommy_Carcetti May 2016 #164

I think if you repeat it all about 10 more times you are certain to have a great impact. jtuck004 May 2016 #193

Hell, even not going so far as extreme.... Tommy_Carcetti May 2016 #156

Challenging the petrodollar can be an insalubrious activity. Alkene May 2016 #155

And, and then there's that little human rights issue and sponsoring terrorism Feeling the Bern May 2016 #158

The nationalizing of oil was certainly a factor in our attempted coup Lodestar May 2016 #159

I spoke about this numerous time right here at DU several years ago...before Obama was Jitter65 May 2016 #162

Really??? A puff piece about a confirmed terrorist and murderer? hueymahl May 2016 #163

It's the same sort of binary thinking you saw when people praised Putin a few years back. Tommy_Carcetti May 2016 #166

Look at history. Gadaffi had renounced terrorism and was attempting to modernize Libya and PufPuf23 May 2016 #199

Gadaffi is a tyrant who fleeced his country and murdered his citizens. He is the ultimate 1% asshat hueymahl May 2016 #201

Libya had been a strong ally angrychair May 2016 #165

Gadafy offers Russia a naval base in Libya PufPuf23 May 2016 #197

Most murderous monsters don't know that they're bad IronLionZion May 2016 #168

My own idea of a socialist paradise would be closer to the Scandinavian countries bhikkhu May 2016 #169

This is like those lists about how African Americans were better off as slaves uhnope May 2016 #172

So, Libya was a worker's paradise, eh? MrScorpio May 2016 #173

Its pretty obvious to everyone now that this is the wrong way..or is it? LiberalLovinLug May 2016 #179

Interesting thoughts. I tend to agree. Thank you. eom PufPuf23 May 2016 #200

most interesting. niyad May 2016 #181

Pan Am Flight 103 videohead5 May 2016 #183

Yes, Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie 270 dead and his treatment of the Libyan people? Lady_Chat May 2016 #188

Gadaffi had renounced terroism, turned over perps for prosecution, and was paying damages to victims PufPuf23 May 2016 #194

i.e., a good man who did a bad thing 6chars May 2016 #202

The hatred of Hillary is so high awoke_in_2003 May 2016 #186

Who made a case for Gadaffi's sainthood? I don't. PufPuf23 May 2016 #195

Is There a Hillary Doctrine? PufPuf23 May 2016 #203

OPs like this are an embarrassment for DU. SunSeeker May 2016 #206

I suggest you read and respond the thread to be taken seriously. PufPuf23 May 2016 #207

I did read the ridiculous OP. I regret wasting my time on this shameless Qaddafi apologia. SunSeeker May 2016 #208

ITT, marks believe Quaddi propoganfa. AngryAmish May 2016 #210

Go to Lockerbie, Scotland. greatauntoftriplets May 2016 #212

How does that compare with the scars in Libya and the number of innocent people killed in Libya PufPuf23 May 2016 #214

but not freedom of speech treestar May 2016 #213

This OP served well as a honey pot for certain posters. PufPuf23 May 2016 #215

If they like Gaddafi so much and life was so ideal treestar May 2016 #217

k&r Electric Monk May 2016 #216

Kick, for visibility edgineered May 2016 #218

Update time jamzrockz Dec 2017 #219