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In reply to the discussion: Free Trade- just what can we live without? [View all]pampango
(24,692 posts)48. Of course the US is not a progressive country. But if we are to become one (which is our goal), why
not do what FDR did and what modern progressive countries do rather than doing the opposite and expecting that to work.
Free trade has destroyed our manufacturing.
No. We trade less than any country this side of North Korea. German manufacturing thrives with strong unions, higher pay than in the US and a level of trade that is 3 times that of the US.
If "free trade" destroyed manufacturing, Sweden and Germany would be a wastelands of poverty. They are not. Sweden trades twice as much as the US trades. Germany 3 times as much. They have trade agreements with 48 non-EU countries in addition to the 27 other EU countries (a total of 75) compared to the 20 countries with which we have trade agreements.
Lack of tariffs has done much to bankrupt us.
Again, if a lack of tariffs has done much to bankrupt us, why did FDR lower tariffs? To help "pull the country of of the depression". How did he plan to fund the New Deal if lowering tariffs would 'bankrupt us'? I'll tell you - by raising income taxes on the 1%. How do Sweden and Germany fund their safety nets? The same way FDR did. Not with tariffs but with high/progressive taxes.
I see a pattern in how progressive American presidents and progressive foreign countries handle trade and how they fund progressive government policies. Unless modern America is so 'exceptional' that we have nothing to learn from what FDR did back in the "20th century" and what modern progressive countries do, perhaps we should pay attention to them rather than trying to reinvent the progressive wheel.
Disconnection from the world is not even possible today.
Don't tell that to Donald. That's exactly the point of his walls, unilateral tariffs, travel bans and 'ripping up' all of our international agreements. Those are the kinds of policies that isolationists have always followed throughout history. Why is it 'not even possible today'? What is to stop a President Trump and a republican congress elected on his coattails) from doing what he says he will do? Such has happened before. Expecting that history cannot repeat itself because 'things are different now' is a mighty dangerous way of thinking.
Isolationism may be DOWN - 70 years of FDR internationalism will do that - but it is never OUT, as you can tell from Trump's popularity with republican voters.
Harry Hopkins (FDR adviser and an architect of the New Deal) interrupted FDR while he was dictating his Four Freedoms speech in January 1941 and told FDR that he should not say that the Four Freedoms apply "everywhere in the world" because Americans are not going to give a damn about people in Java".
FDR replied, "Well Harry. They are going to have to give a damn about people in Java from now on."
republican voters have proven that they don't give a damn about the "people in Java". Trump intends to test how far that sentiment goes beyond just republican voters.
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Because these deals line pockets in a big way, Congreess and lobbyists gain- we lose
larkrake
May 2016
#10
If you are willing to pay more for autos, electronics, etc., that are inferior, you can buy here.
Hoyt
May 2016
#2
Ever heard of a trade war? Look it up. Nationalistic America First won't work nowadays,
Hoyt
May 2016
#31
I am proposing Fair trade, instead of free, and not giving Corporations immunity to our laws
larkrake
May 2016
#39
LOLZ. I grew up on O'ahu and never did care for Kona Coffee.And have you seen the price these days?!
Hekate
May 2016
#68
Kona coffee is good enough, our other satallite offshoots also grow coffee and teas
larkrake
May 2016
#12
Yes, sadly the CEOs would vacumn up the profits, its the american way, in triplicate
larkrake
May 2016
#88
California is bigger than most countries. Should it not trade with New York? How about with Canada?
pampango
May 2016
#18
Of course the US is not a progressive country. But if we are to become one (which is our goal), why
pampango
May 2016
#48
It is a different scenario. FDR didnt have 5000 bases all over the world, he did not have two wars
larkrake
May 2016
#57
You may believe that FDR's views are irrelevant now. We do not agree. And progressive countries
pampango
May 2016
#62
No, Republicans prefer giving that power to Corporations who use child labor, desolate wages
larkrake
May 2016
#81
IF the US returns to the policies of FDR/Sweden on labor rights, taxation, regulation and safety net
pampango
May 2016
#103
sorry Pamp, please learn to digest what I said. The US is the victim of free trade
larkrake
May 2016
#29
True. Since Fukishima and the BP spill, we are sorely lacking seafoot fit to eat
larkrake
May 2016
#26
We dont sell much to them , the exception being war planes and weapons of course
larkrake
May 2016
#24
You couldn't be more wrong - you just have no idea what you're talking about
Corporate666
May 2016
#44
you are right, absolutely, sorry I was so casual in my reply. We used fair trade doing it, so why go
larkrake
May 2016
#86
I agree with you, I'm always going to neighbors to give them my extra tomaos, zucchini
larkrake
May 2016
#38
I prefer frozen, there is no waste from forgetting its in the back of the fridge, and it is
larkrake
May 2016
#37
we are good on veggies, but fruit is limited to hawaii and our southern islands
larkrake
May 2016
#35
I hand mix barley, oats and corn. Mold effects the nervous and pulmunary systems
larkrake
May 2016
#96
Stuff from Europe and Japan is frequently superior to US-made equivalents
Spider Jerusalem
May 2016
#41
You are using a computer and the vast majority of those are made in China.
Agnosticsherbet
May 2016
#78
And we have free trade with Canada. The point being is that damn few of us are living without trade.
Agnosticsherbet
May 2016
#83
Of course, China isnt stupid. They know that manufacturing is the only way to go.
larkrake
May 2016
#85