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pampango

(24,692 posts)
103. IF the US returns to the policies of FDR/Sweden on labor rights, taxation, regulation and safety net
Wed May 18, 2016, 01:32 PM
May 2016

AND THEN too much trade ('free', 'fair' or any other kind) harms our middle/working class, I will be the first in line (well, second after you) to push to cut back on trade severely.

UNTIL THEN I have no reason to believe that our paltry amount of trade (1/2 of Sweden's, 1/3 of Germany's) is the cause of the economic problems of our 99%. I will stick with my belief which, IMHO was shared by FDR and is shared by Sweden, that these problems are caused by our abandonment of FDR's principles on labor rights (now we have 'right-to-work'), taxation (was high and progressive, now low and 'trickle-down'), regulation (FDR regulated, we deregulate) and the safety net (stronger to shredded).

I will not advocate cutting trade now as an alternative to fighting for what FDR believed in and accomplished, just because it sounds good and seems popular if history shows that it will not work.

FDR did not worry as much about the Mexicans and the Chinese - or any other foreigners - as much as he did about the American 1%. Sweden does not worry as much about the Chinese and whichever poor country takes the place of Mexico on their right wing's list of poor boogeymen than they do about controlling the Swedish 1%.

I wish the ITO had passed.

Agreed. And it is never too late to do the right thing.

TPP excludes them (China) for a reason.

The TPP excludes them for 2 reasons. 1 - They don't want to be in it because it has labor and environmental standards (though they have turned out to be fairly weak) that they have repeatedly said work against their competitive advantage. 2 - Obama has repeatedly said that he does not want Chinese standards to dominate international trade and that China can only join in the future if it adopts these better standards. China is not willing to do this, at least for now.

They own our debt thanks to Bush.

China holds 8% of our debt. Japan has 6%, the UK 2%, Brazil and Taiwan about 1% each. Americans hold about 70% of the debt.
Today you desperately need them, but it doesnt have to be that way. Jackie Wilson Said May 2016 #1
Because these deals line pockets in a big way, Congreess and lobbyists gain- we lose larkrake May 2016 #10
If you are willing to pay more for autos, electronics, etc., that are inferior, you can buy here. Hoyt May 2016 #2
Inferior today, agreed larkrake May 2016 #7
Sure, let's cut ourselves off from the rest of the world and see how that works. Hoyt May 2016 #20
They could pay tariffs and stay in trade with us larkrake May 2016 #27
Ever heard of a trade war? Look it up. Nationalistic America First won't work nowadays, Hoyt May 2016 #31
I am proposing Fair trade, instead of free, and not giving Corporations immunity to our laws larkrake May 2016 #39
A lot of us already live without. Rex May 2016 #3
This is true, and those trade countries do tariff their goods larkrake May 2016 #9
Similar thread here. KamaAina May 2016 #4
Thanx, very informative larkrake May 2016 #8
Less is more. nt bemildred May 2016 #5
I'm pretty sure I need coffee from one of those places. MH1 May 2016 #6
Ever hear of Kona? KamaAina May 2016 #11
Yes, but I learn something new every day MH1 May 2016 #14
LOLZ. I grew up on O'ahu and never did care for Kona Coffee.And have you seen the price these days?! Hekate May 2016 #68
More likely than not, you were getting a "Kona blend". KamaAina May 2016 #69
LOL, sadly some coffees have alot of fillers larkrake May 2016 #76
It does cost more. I wonder what is starbucks coffee source. larkrake May 2016 #75
Kona coffee is good enough, our other satallite offshoots also grow coffee and teas larkrake May 2016 #12
If I buy cheap Chinese shit from Walmart or I buy it from Amazon 1939 May 2016 #15
Yes, unions are vital to manufacturing larkrake May 2016 #17
Puerto Rico. AngryAmish May 2016 #66
If you want to go with USA only... Corporate666 May 2016 #13
Oh WOW larkrake May 2016 #16
I don't mean to sound rude but you couldn't be more wrong Corporate666 May 2016 #42
Ma bell started communications (as in Graham Bell) larkrake May 2016 #71
Tariffs decrease competition; that's the point of them muriel_volestrangler May 2016 #70
Yes, sadly the CEOs would vacumn up the profits, its the american way, in triplicate larkrake May 2016 #88
But couldn't that stuff be made here? Turin_C3PO May 2016 #33
I don't think it's that simple Corporate666 May 2016 #43
Interesting breakdown, you make sense. are we then to become a Global entity, larkrake May 2016 #89
Well Corporate666 May 2016 #101
California is bigger than most countries. Should it not trade with New York? How about with Canada? pampango May 2016 #18
Is the US Progressive? I can in good conscience say we are in REGRESSION larkrake May 2016 #22
Once again, you are wrong and have no idea what you are talking about Corporate666 May 2016 #45
I don't know where you get your information, I agree to disagree with you larkrake May 2016 #56
Of course the US is not a progressive country. But if we are to become one (which is our goal), why pampango May 2016 #48
It is a different scenario. FDR didnt have 5000 bases all over the world, he did not have two wars larkrake May 2016 #57
You may believe that FDR's views are irrelevant now. We do not agree. And progressive countries pampango May 2016 #62
No, Republicans prefer giving that power to Corporations who use child labor, desolate wages larkrake May 2016 #81
IF the US returns to the policies of FDR/Sweden on labor rights, taxation, regulation and safety net pampango May 2016 #103
sorry Pamp, please learn to digest what I said. The US is the victim of free trade larkrake May 2016 #29
Most Tilapia comes from China. karadax May 2016 #19
True. Since Fukishima and the BP spill, we are sorely lacking seafoot fit to eat larkrake May 2016 #26
Plenty of seafood out there, some better managed than others. alarimer May 2016 #55
This is not really true alarimer May 2016 #53
Fish farms are an exciting industry, that requires live people to manage larkrake May 2016 #92
Because we want to sell our stuff to them? Nt hack89 May 2016 #21
We dont sell much to them , the exception being war planes and weapons of course larkrake May 2016 #24
You couldn't be more wrong - you just have no idea what you're talking about Corporate666 May 2016 #44
you are right, absolutely, sorry I was so casual in my reply. We used fair trade doing it, so why go larkrake May 2016 #86
You are clueless hack89 May 2016 #49
I already said we feed the world, we are both correct larkrake May 2016 #87
We export $140 Billion in agriculture products annually. hack89 May 2016 #54
Sorry, larkrake, but you really truly have no clue. Please learn. Hekate May 2016 #84
Fresh Produce. Texasgal May 2016 #23
Hawaii, Puerto Rico, I'm not sure about Guam, but wow would they flourish larkrake May 2016 #25
Unfortunatly I think it all comes down to cost. Texasgal May 2016 #98
We save a lot of money by growing our own vegetables. Rex May 2016 #30
I agree with you, I'm always going to neighbors to give them my extra tomaos, zucchini larkrake May 2016 #38
Us to. I am old enough that I have taught my kids and theirs jwirr May 2016 #72
True, we'd have to go back to seasonal eating of produce... Turin_C3PO May 2016 #34
I prefer frozen, there is no waste from forgetting its in the back of the fridge, and it is larkrake May 2016 #37
If you are not freezing it Texasgal May 2016 #99
I'm with you 100%. cheapdate May 2016 #28
It isn't the needs the drive trade, it's the wants. Lancero May 2016 #32
we are good on veggies, but fruit is limited to hawaii and our southern islands larkrake May 2016 #35
You really are clueless GulfCoast66 May 2016 #52
Sorry, but it is fact that many countries have banned Monsanto larkrake May 2016 #90
I'll bite GulfCoast66 May 2016 #93
I hand mix barley, oats and corn. Mold effects the nervous and pulmunary systems larkrake May 2016 #96
Thanks for the primer on horse feed GulfCoast66 May 2016 #97
I have to agree on the chocolate. larkrake May 2016 #36
You expect the 1% to be cool with a reasonable profit TransitJohn May 2016 #40
Profit margins haven't shot up with overseas manufacturing - fact Corporate666 May 2016 #46
How naive of me larkrake May 2016 #58
Stuff from Europe and Japan is frequently superior to US-made equivalents Spider Jerusalem May 2016 #41
I'm not too sure I could live without my job jmowreader May 2016 #47
Necessity breed invention larkrake May 2016 #59
That's just the sort of thing we should be making here KamaAina May 2016 #61
I really don't understand this desire for isolation..... Adrahil May 2016 #50
I agree with you 100% larkrake May 2016 #60
It is the desire to allow people to work with dignity AngryAmish May 2016 #67
yes, yet multinational and national corps are sociopathic larkrake May 2016 #73
You don't isolation for that. NT Adrahil May 2016 #74
No, you boycott. I am not wanting isolation larkrake May 2016 #91
Been tried. Failed. whatthehey May 2016 #51
agreed, isolation isn't the answer, neither is throwing open the doors larkrake May 2016 #63
Well you asked... whatthehey May 2016 #102
Coffee. You can pry my coffee beans from my cold dead hands. Hekate May 2016 #64
Lol, the one addiction I can support larkrake May 2016 #65
"free trade" is not synonymous with "trade" mooseprime May 2016 #77
You are so correct larkrake May 2016 #82
You are using a computer and the vast majority of those are made in China. Agnosticsherbet May 2016 #78
"Even American made cars use parts from various countries." KamaAina May 2016 #79
And we have free trade with Canada. The point being is that damn few of us are living without trade. Agnosticsherbet May 2016 #83
Of course, China isnt stupid. They know that manufacturing is the only way to go. larkrake May 2016 #85
Just a note we do make computers here- I googled larkrake May 2016 #95
We also make the processors here Mnpaul May 2016 #100
People are gonna look at you funny dressed in those squirrel pelts Warpy May 2016 #80
well, arent we a lazy country? larkrake May 2016 #94
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