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In reply to the discussion: Italian Grocer Deploys ‘Scan and Bag’-Style Technology [View all]Hassin Bin Sober
(27,492 posts)36. Not sure what this video has to do with anything?
I don't smoke. Probably because I did well in 8th grade chemistry and health class. But that's another issue, isn't it?
http://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae1.cfm
We performed a series of experiments in order to determine the actual temperature of the lit cigarette. Here are the results for the temperature at different locations and under different conditions:
Temperature without drawing:
Side of the lit portion: 400 deg C (or 752 deg F)
Middle of the lit portion: 580 deg C (or 1112 deg F)
Temperature during drawing:
Middle of the lit portion: 700 deg C (or 1292 deg F)
The above numbers represent the average we obtained by performing several trials and can be considered accurate to within 50 deg C. A standard Fe-CuNi digital thermocouple thermometer was used in all trials.
The Autoignition Temperature of a standard unleaded gasoline can be anywhere from 260 to 460 degrees C (or 500 to 860 deg F) as quoted on the FAQ: Automotive Gasoline Web Page by Bruce Hamilton (this page is also an excellent and accurate resource about the science of gasoline)
So as you can see the temperature of the cigarette, even at the side of the lit portion, is more than enough to cause gasoline to autoignite. However, there are many other factors that one should take into account. It matters how the cigarette actually falls onto the surface to the gasoline. There is a lower chance of autoignition if the cigarette falls on it's side where the temperature is lower. Also, the temperature of the gasoline itself matters. If the gasoline is cold to start with then there is again a lower chance of autoignition. One should also consider the amount of the gasoline that you have, namely if you have a large volume of gasoline that would mean that the there is enough surrounding liquid for the heat to go into and therefore the temperature of the gasoline-cigar contact spot would due to heat conduction of the gasoline decrease rapidly, therefore reducing the chance for autoignition. On the contrary, if you have a nice thin film of the gasoline, the chances of the autoignition increase. Also, the evaporation of the gasoline at the point of the contact will also act to reduce the actual contact temperature rapidly.
We are aware of at least one experimental trial (conducted by our colleague at the university) where the gasoline did not ignite upon contact with a lit cigar. This just means that all of the above conditions were not in favour of the ignition.
However, It is important to realize that the gasoline vapour has a much lower autoignition temperature than the gasoline itself. Namely, if you spill gasoline on a hot road (say in the hot summer day) you will be able to ignite gasoline by contact with a cigarette easily, just because of the gasoline vapour layer that would be produced above the surface of the gasoline. Not to even mention throwing the cigarette into the container with gasoline that has been closed for some time and is therefore full of gasoline vapours.
So for all of you smokers out there that are wondering why you are not allowed to smoke at gas pump stations, these are the real scientific reasons. It is dangerous and science is telling us that the temperature of the cigarette, given the appropriate conditions, is enough to cause gasoline to autoignite (and in case of the gas pump station this would be disastrous.)
So, Mike it looks like John Grisham has done his homework before writing his book.
WARNING: All above mentioned experiments were performed by professionals under controlled conditions and with proper precautions. You are in no way to attempt this on your own. This is dangerous and you can cause serious injuries to yourself and others. PhysLink and its authors will not be held responsible.
PhysLink would like to thank Dr. Michael Ewart for his kind assistance in performing these experiments.
Answered by: Michael Ewart, Researcher at the University of Southern California and Anton Skorucak, Creator & Editor of PhysLink
Temperature without drawing:
Side of the lit portion: 400 deg C (or 752 deg F)
Middle of the lit portion: 580 deg C (or 1112 deg F)
Temperature during drawing:
Middle of the lit portion: 700 deg C (or 1292 deg F)
The above numbers represent the average we obtained by performing several trials and can be considered accurate to within 50 deg C. A standard Fe-CuNi digital thermocouple thermometer was used in all trials.
The Autoignition Temperature of a standard unleaded gasoline can be anywhere from 260 to 460 degrees C (or 500 to 860 deg F) as quoted on the FAQ: Automotive Gasoline Web Page by Bruce Hamilton (this page is also an excellent and accurate resource about the science of gasoline)
So as you can see the temperature of the cigarette, even at the side of the lit portion, is more than enough to cause gasoline to autoignite. However, there are many other factors that one should take into account. It matters how the cigarette actually falls onto the surface to the gasoline. There is a lower chance of autoignition if the cigarette falls on it's side where the temperature is lower. Also, the temperature of the gasoline itself matters. If the gasoline is cold to start with then there is again a lower chance of autoignition. One should also consider the amount of the gasoline that you have, namely if you have a large volume of gasoline that would mean that the there is enough surrounding liquid for the heat to go into and therefore the temperature of the gasoline-cigar contact spot would due to heat conduction of the gasoline decrease rapidly, therefore reducing the chance for autoignition. On the contrary, if you have a nice thin film of the gasoline, the chances of the autoignition increase. Also, the evaporation of the gasoline at the point of the contact will also act to reduce the actual contact temperature rapidly.
We are aware of at least one experimental trial (conducted by our colleague at the university) where the gasoline did not ignite upon contact with a lit cigar. This just means that all of the above conditions were not in favour of the ignition.
However, It is important to realize that the gasoline vapour has a much lower autoignition temperature than the gasoline itself. Namely, if you spill gasoline on a hot road (say in the hot summer day) you will be able to ignite gasoline by contact with a cigarette easily, just because of the gasoline vapour layer that would be produced above the surface of the gasoline. Not to even mention throwing the cigarette into the container with gasoline that has been closed for some time and is therefore full of gasoline vapours.
So for all of you smokers out there that are wondering why you are not allowed to smoke at gas pump stations, these are the real scientific reasons. It is dangerous and science is telling us that the temperature of the cigarette, given the appropriate conditions, is enough to cause gasoline to autoignite (and in case of the gas pump station this would be disastrous.)
So, Mike it looks like John Grisham has done his homework before writing his book.
WARNING: All above mentioned experiments were performed by professionals under controlled conditions and with proper precautions. You are in no way to attempt this on your own. This is dangerous and you can cause serious injuries to yourself and others. PhysLink and its authors will not be held responsible.
PhysLink would like to thank Dr. Michael Ewart for his kind assistance in performing these experiments.
Answered by: Michael Ewart, Researcher at the University of Southern California and Anton Skorucak, Creator & Editor of PhysLink
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So you want unnecessary busy work for people, so long as they get a paycheck?
alcibiades_mystery
Jun 2012
#11
If accountancy firms would get rid of computers, and hire an army of people with quill pens,
Nye Bevan
Jun 2012
#18
There aren't very many jobs of that type. Certainly not as many as the jobs it eliminates.
Zalatix
Jun 2012
#96
Or we could just wait until technology makes most of humanity redundant and unnecessary.
Zalatix
Jun 2012
#89
Ahold uses those in their Giant stores. Silly devices. I've watched people shoplift.
HopeHoops
Jun 2012
#6
Here in Oregon, all fuel is pumped by an attendant, always. 'Self service' is not allowed.
Bluenorthwest
Jun 2012
#8
The vapors are not in an enclosed space. But the vapors are concentrated at the fill point.
Hassin Bin Sober
Jun 2012
#56
If you don't have a so-called "loyalty" card, they have to scan a store card.
HopeHoops
Jun 2012
#40
You will never make a credible case for more automation when we have so many people unemployed.
Zalatix
Jun 2012
#25
What is the self-described DEMOCRAT Nancy Pelosi doing about these bag boy/clerk jobs?
Capt. Obvious
Jun 2012
#68
BTW I notice you have nothing to offer all the people who are losing their jobs because of this.
Zalatix
Jun 2012
#90
The dirty little secret is that no one knows what to do with the unemployed.
former9thward
Jun 2012
#102
We used to have techs manually configure switches and equipment for provisioning of telecom services
snooper2
Jun 2012
#138
Yes I can do this for hours. Years, in fact. Show us the job boom. Where is it?
Zalatix
Jun 2012
#151
This is good. Let's not pretend corporate stores haven't been cutting staff
RadiationTherapy
Jun 2012
#24
I am not going to fall for any nonsense such as freezing technology and innovation
RadiationTherapy
Jun 2012
#28
And I ain't baggin my own feckin groceries either. 10% off or the line waits!
RadiationTherapy
Jun 2012
#29
You have a few areas of confusion. The devices the OP speaks of are hand held pods, not self
Bluenorthwest
Jun 2012
#139
What the Jetsons never showed you was why "everyone" drove around in flying cars and lived
haele
Jun 2012
#55
Now that is shockingly insightful. Come to think of it you never did see the Earth's surface
Zalatix
Jun 2012
#65
Unless you are in NJ or Oregon, you probably pump all of your own gas and refuse assistance
Bluenorthwest
Jun 2012
#145
Actually that's one of several things I wrote my state assemblyman about. So, next try please?
Zalatix
Jun 2012
#149
Please re-read carefully. I said, no new industries that are creating LOTS of jobs.
Zalatix
Jun 2012
#131
As I said, show me the job boom, otherwise you really don't have a good argument here.
Zalatix
Jun 2012
#150
Yes you do have to show it. The jobs overall and relative to the population have NOT increased.
Zalatix
Jun 2012
#155
The only supermarket I've seen use hand-held scanners in the UK is a cooperative
muriel_volestrangler
Jun 2012
#129
That's because when workers control the work place, they say 'being a checker sucks and is
Bluenorthwest
Jun 2012
#141