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cthulu2016

(10,960 posts)
27. This argument is seriously deformed
Fri Jun 8, 2012, 01:22 PM
Jun 2012

Last edited Fri Jun 8, 2012, 02:12 PM - Edit history (3)

The irony here is that my most controversial theory about the economy is that I believe that 1996-2008 was a unified asset bubble. I am more in agreement with Baker in some of his observations than most people are.

But to lay all that at Clinton's feet suggests an emotional agenda.


Asset bubbles require relatively-low interest rates. But so does general GDP growth. All presidents want relatively-low interest rates. If that is a mistake it is a universal mistake, not something Clinton thought up.

The combination of astonishing once-in-a-generation (or even lifetime) technology driven productivity gains and government moving from deficit to surplus and Greenspan's stock friendliness all combined to make the internet bubble.

Similar productivity gains (like railroads) have typically done the same, when occurring in low rate environments that made bubbles possible.

What did NOT cause the internet bubble was repealing Glass-Steagall, since things that happen in 1999 do not typically cause things that happened in 1997.

The suggestion that a president can deflate a bubble is far-fetched. The idea that any president WOULD deflate a bubble is absurd. No president would. None.

The job of deflating the bubble was Greenspan's job, and that's the bulk of Clinton's contribution to the formation of the bubble. He reappointed Greenspan. A fair charge.

Again, no president will ever say, "I think we need to shave a few points off GDP because I think the stock market is doing too well."

Since no president is ever going to do that you subtract that from both sides of the equation.

In terms of what was specific to Clinton, and unlike Reagan, Bush I and Bush II, the government did a better than average job within the bubble environment.


We had a bubble under Clinton. We had a bubble under Bush II. Neither man created those bubbles single-handedly.

During the Clinton bubble workers made almost all the gains they have made since 1980 and tax revenues were way up.

During the Bush II bubble workers made no gains and the deficit doubled.

If the author wants to write a general economic piece about the relationship between low interest rates and asset bubbles, and that what business always wants in the short term is destabilizing in the long term, and question what all presidents think in terms of basic assumptions, that's fine.

But this piece is just a tantrum.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Du rec. Nt xchrom Jun 2012 #1
I disagree. denverbill Jun 2012 #2
Consider that Clinton reappointed Greenspan twice, 1995 and just before the 2000 election FarCenter Jun 2012 #6
The author claims Bill was to blame for the 2008 meltdown 8 years after he left office Major Nikon Jun 2012 #16
Dont you get it? Dokkie Jun 2012 #24
No, I don't Major Nikon Jun 2012 #53
Good point if you focus entirely on the stock market and ignore his policies. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #25
Well said. I think the OP imports a revised history -- against Democrats. Festivito Jun 2012 #54
Few Of Us Know What A Real Good Economy Is... KharmaTrain Jun 2012 #3
Exactly. He and his cohorts worked tirelessly to contain the spread of wealth and to suppress the Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #26
..and we get ripped for "blaming" Bush... Wounded Bear Jun 2012 #4
Not to mention cbrer Jun 2012 #5
So few people realize how central edhopper Jun 2012 #44
I couldn't tell how the economy was back then slackmaster Jun 2012 #7
And St. Ronnie was even worse WI_DEM Jun 2012 #8
And the Senator was right. We've been warned more times than I care to count over a period of Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #28
that's such a shit source cali Jun 2012 #9
But the author of the piece is Dean Baker, with progressive credentials FarCenter Jun 2012 #12
He's being used. BI has an anti President Obama and anti dem party agenda cali Jun 2012 #15
Whatever, shoot the messenger if you can't deal with the message... FarCenter Jun 2012 #17
The message is even easier to deal with Major Nikon Jun 2012 #18
There is something I try very hard to live by... sendero Jun 2012 #42
People tend to wax nostalgic about the Clinton years...... marmar Jun 2012 #10
Clinton was best president for the The Second Stone Jun 2012 #11
Both parties applaud reappointment of Greenspan to head US Federal Reserve FarCenter Jun 2012 #14
My internal alarms start ringing when someone uses the phrase "both parties" a lot. 2ndAmForComputers Jun 2012 #45
I posted the headline without changing it - but maybe the World Socialist Web Site is over the top! FarCenter Jun 2012 #47
I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. 2ndAmForComputers Jun 2012 #50
yeah, he's excellent on "admitting his mistakes" after the fact. "mistakes were made" on haiti, HiPointDem Jun 2012 #32
Admitting mistakes does not edit/delete them out of existence and yes, those "mistakes" TheKentuckian Jun 2012 #37
one thing for sure, income inequality has grown steadily G_j Jun 2012 #13
under Clinton, the gap between rich and poor shrank dramatically. bigtree Jun 2012 #20
I suppose it would be more accurate to say wage stagnation has been steady for the "99%" G_j Jun 2012 #22
Not true, see graph below FarCenter Jun 2012 #23
Thanks for going to the trouble to debunk that BS. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #29
there are graphs and graphs bigtree Jun 2012 #36
i did it for you. seems you're misinformed. see that big jump in the top 1% starting about 94-95? HiPointDem Jun 2012 #34
looks like I am misinformed bigtree Jun 2012 #38
wages went up, but not dramatically. clinton did "welfare reform" -- it's on his watch that we HiPointDem Jun 2012 #39
incomes went up quite a bit bigtree Jun 2012 #49
i think if you dig into the statistics you'll find the gains for median workers and under were not HiPointDem Jun 2012 #52
I lived it as a working man with a young family bigtree Jun 2012 #19
He was an enthusiastic free-trading globalist through and through Populist_Prole Jun 2012 #21
This argument is seriously deformed cthulu2016 Jun 2012 #27
You make the author's point in your reply. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #31
"made almost all the gains they've made since 1980" is no particular recommendation as they HiPointDem Jun 2012 #40
The gains were reversed cthulu2016 Jun 2012 #41
boom economies are typically better for workers than bust economies, or seem to be. but HiPointDem Jun 2012 #48
When was Glass- Stegall ended? bahrbearian Jun 2012 #30
1999 by the passage of Gramm-Leah-Bliley Act FarCenter Jun 2012 #43
Major unrec...CLinton knew what he was doing until his last joeybee12 Jun 2012 #33
NAFTA bahrbearian Jun 2012 #35
and the point is? spanone Jun 2012 #46
Please tell us how good/bad he was, COMPARED TO THE PRESIDENTS BEFORE AND AFTER HIM. 2ndAmForComputers Jun 2012 #51
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