Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search


(82,383 posts)
13. I know you think this proves something you want to be true
Wed Jun 1, 2016, 01:35 PM
Jun 2016

The cultures are different. We have the First Amendment which says no religion is to be established. They don't. That is one problem for women there.

We do however, while we don't have honor killings, we do have people who kill their spouses. We have laws against that. It looks like Pakistan does too, though there are some extremists who don't want it that way. Somewhere we do have extremists who don't like our laws against abuse, but they are not likely to win and there's nothing here to prove these Pakistani extremists will either.

But we do have problems with spousal abuse - though it may not be based on religion specifically, we can't really feel all that superior except to say we don't have an established religion. I don't think Christianity really allows for beating any wives, not that I know of (though it does seem to tell women they are to obey their husbands, but it doesn't specifically grant the husbands any punishment power - indeed it tells them they must love their wives). So maybe we can say we are superior because of that. Though our desperate attempt to be superior to others due to the fact others have a worse religion could require more study. We know little about the Koran, being nonMuslim Americans, and it indeed may not authorize such a thing either. Because people say they adhere to a religion does not prove their opinions about it are absolute.

So I would say isolating some cases that specifically took place in one of several Muslim countries does not prove the Muslims inherently more violent than we are. Our cases may not be based in religion or called honor killings, but we do have a problem. We have rates of rape, abuse, child abuse, etc., and there is nothing in the study to prove that their rates of unpleasantness are higher. We do have better legal protections for women - that I will grant - the 14th Amendment is a thing we are lucky to have, which people in many countries don't, so their laws will allow discrimination. Maybe we could pat ourselves on the back about that - or admit we were lucky we were born in a country founded by some very wise and smart people.

Okay. Iggo Jun 2016 #1
My goodness! gratuitous Jun 2016 #2
Well, no maxsolomon Jun 2016 #3
What is your REAL agenda?nt clarice Jun 2016 #36
Be careful. Sometimes speaking the truth here can get you into trouble. Binkie The Clown Jun 2016 #4
Yeah, Islam is in a fucking crisis. Modernize, moderate, have a reformation - anything! Arazi Jun 2016 #5
Given the opportunity, I've little doubt American secular and religious fundamentalists would take u LanternWaste Jun 2016 #6
I can't believe you're even trying this shit leftynyc Jun 2016 #7
Actually Yes, there are Christian Groups, and GOP Politicians that want to legalize Murdering Gays. dbackjon Jun 2016 #10
Name them leftynyc Jun 2016 #17
Look up Kevin Swanson dbackjon Jun 2016 #19
Hetero priviledge? leftynyc Jun 2016 #20
Lefty... you know as well as I, that there is NO winning this.... clarice Jun 2016 #35
Ted Cruz for one. But nothing I post will change your mind dbackjon Jun 2016 #37
OMG....PLEASE be serious.nt clarice Jun 2016 #27
Jeeze! I can't effing believe some people! smirkymonkey Jun 2016 #47
I too, like to transfer negative attributes from one group to another. Throd Jun 2016 #8
By Jove, I think you've got it! Dr. Strange Jun 2016 #44
I find that argument among the stupidest ever advanced. In world history. Dreamer Tatum Jun 2016 #14
What is your REAL agenda?nt clarice Jun 2016 #38
I have to ask you this one basic question: kentauros Jun 2016 #9
Doesn't and hasn't their religion shaped their culture? n/t Fix The Stupid Jun 2016 #11
Culture is always what lies beneath human actions. kentauros Jun 2016 #16
Often they become intertwined. Throd Jun 2016 #22
Yes they do. kentauros Jun 2016 #26
And then religion modifies the culture. Throd Jun 2016 #29
The point -being- kentauros Jun 2016 #33
Culture isn't encased in amber, unaffected by outside influences that come later. Throd Jun 2016 #39
Then you are refusing to read -and- understand what I'm writing. kentauros Jun 2016 #40
There is no chronology if the are simultaneously evolving in concert with one another. Throd Jun 2016 #42
*sigh* kentauros Jun 2016 #43
This doesn't happen in secular America Buzz cook Jun 2016 #12
Yep, the UK has an established Christian church entwined in the state, Nye Bevan Jun 2016 #15
You mean the UK Buzz cook Jun 2016 #51
I know you think this proves something you want to be true treestar Jun 2016 #13
We have the amendments you mention GulfCoast66 Jun 2016 #50
So who exactly is responsible for the slaughter and abuse of so many women malaise Jun 2016 #18
Why does it always come back to AMERICA ? I don't understand that agenda.nt clarice Jun 2016 #28
Mainly because America is where most of us live and have some nominal amount of power over Fumesucker Jun 2016 #45
And I get that 1000%...and thank you for your thoughtful response... clarice Jun 2016 #49
It gets a lot more personal when you become a victim however minor of these sorts of acts Fumesucker Jun 2016 #54
My mother broke up with her boyfriend. He crashed his car into hers, trapping her, LeftyMom Jun 2016 #21
Yes, but it is only SANCTIONED in certain parts of the world.nt clarice Jun 2016 #34
Thank YOU! smirkymonkey Jun 2016 #48
Monkey.... I am beyond believing that people are just "obtuse" clarice Jun 2016 #52
Good post! Quantess Jun 2016 #23
And for the LIFE of me... I'm still trying to figure out the Liberal agenda on this issue....... clarice Jun 2016 #32
Do you honestly think American "christians" -- Hell Hath No Fury Jun 2016 #24
No it hasn't. What a load of crap. Throd Jun 2016 #25
What is your TRUE agenda?nt clarice Jun 2016 #30
On behalf of my muslim friends, I will now ignore you. Maedhros Jun 2016 #31
our death rate due to firearns is pretty much 2nd to none motives????? not reported dembotoz Jun 2016 #41
Men who do horrific things to women are everywhere TrappedInUtah Jun 2016 #46
"Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands" pauldp Jun 2016 #53
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»This happens all the time...»Reply #13