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(114,904 posts)
Sun Jun 12, 2016, 05:06 PM Jun 2016

It's really, really hard to talk about radical Islamic terrorism [View all]

Those engaging in it are a tiny, tiny minority of Muslims. Those supporting it, although a larger group are still a small minority. There are something like 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. I fear the demonization of Muslims that could lead to horrific attacks on innocent people. But that doesn't mean that it isn't a real problem. So how to address it?

Is there anything currently analogous within any other major religion? No, there really isn't it. So much of it seems to me to be blowback related. I'm not excusing it, but that's a big factor. U.S. and western interference and actions in the Mideast and other Muslim nations have created the perfect environment for the fomentation of hate and violent lashing out/back. Catering to Saudi Arabia, overthrowing Mossadegh- it's a long sad list of Western imperialism.

But- and here comes the part which may anger many of you- the false equivalency between Xian extremism and Radical Islam, is wrong headed. I understand the impulse to protect the majority of Muslims who are in no way culpable, but it just doesn't logically work. Of course there are Christians who are hateful and violent, but the scale is quite different, and it's not just quantitative.

Every ISIS atrocity I hear of (and I'm not saying Orlando was such an incident), I can't help but think of the Kuwait baby incubator propaganda story, but times are different in this era of social media and we know many of the atrocities we hear about are fact, not propaganda.

Radical Islam is well established within several societies and protected by powerful leaders in several countries. Western actions to reduce it have backfired time after time, actually increasing it.

Pretending that Radical Islamic terrorism isn't any greater a threat than other forms of terrorism currently extant, makes it difficult to discuss it.

Obviously, those primarily to blame are the people actually carrying out horrific attacks, but for decade upon decade, Western Powers and particularly the U.S. have been responsible for creating conditions that foster the twisted philosophy of Radical violent Islamic groups.

I feel a bit guilty just writing this. Hell, if I were Muslim I'm sure I'd feel defensive as hell, and I want to reiterate that I know that it's only a tiny minority of Muslims who are actively involved or associated with groups like ISIS.

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It's all about the oil, Cali. roamer65 Jun 2016 #1
"Is there anything currently analogous within any other major religion? No" ... I disagree factually uponit7771 Jun 2016 #2
I'm sorry, but your post makes very little sense to me. cali Jun 2016 #10
1. The KKK (you'll further qualify), 2. India VHP oppression of other religions... uponit7771 Jun 2016 #17
that's an absurd comparison. Today's KKK is composed of a few hundred people cali Jun 2016 #25
You said "today's KKK" uponit7771 Jun 2016 #36
Oh for ffs, the OP makes it crystal clear that I'm talking about the current world cali Jun 2016 #48
"Current World" meaning as of 10 days 100 years ... what? Come on Cali go ahead and qualify uponit7771 Jun 2016 #53
current as in the past 20 years or so cali Jun 2016 #58
I verily disagree with other religions not having an equally destructive sects culturally or ... uponit7771 Jun 2016 #63
you are entitled to your own opinions for sure. But not your own facts. cali Jun 2016 #79
Well, the troubles in northern Ireland are certainly within living memory thucythucy Jun 2016 #103
20 or so years and I'd list the LRA, Tamil Tigers, 969 Movement, various Hindu nationalist groups Chathamization Jun 2016 #132
Ive never been oppressed by ISIS either. So I guess they are just not a problem. Akicita Jun 2016 #78
extrapolate Android3.14 Jun 2016 #68
Thx, I'll just use single out uponit7771 Jun 2016 #69
I can't think of any group as powerful and organized, but I do think frazzled Jun 2016 #56
bombings and killing at women's health clinics. In the mind of those who committed such acts still_one Jun 2016 #65
Exactly..... paleotn Jun 2016 #81
by action still_one Jun 2016 #84
Islam has a long way to go before it catches up with snot Jun 2016 #3
Over all of history?? You sure about that? boston bean Jun 2016 #6
Islam didn't come about until about 600 - 700 years after the beginnings of Christianity. BumRushDaShow Jun 2016 #11
Per multiple sources via the google, yes, by a YUGE margin, so to speak. snot Jun 2016 #114
Taking a swipe at Christians and cops to defend Islamic extremism romanic Jun 2016 #12
I stated facts and that I'd like to know more before rushing to conclusions. snot Jun 2016 #116
The past is not always past, but neither is it always applicable cali Jun 2016 #13
see, I said you'd qualify to narrow the scope... the past to some is 70 years ago when masses amount uponit7771 Jun 2016 #19
+1 uponit7771 Jun 2016 #18
Well, "snot," as a Christian whose dad was a cop... Miles Archer Jun 2016 #29
Seriously?! It's the cops fault this guy killed so many? Wtf? Quackers Jun 2016 #46
I strongly agree with Cali's post... humbled_opinion Jun 2016 #57
Not a thousand years ago, within living memory Fumesucker Jun 2016 #101
Who gives a shit? It's not a fucking race. Lizzie Poppet Jun 2016 #80
...!100++++ 840high Jun 2016 #126
People, all I said is I'd like to hear the evidence before rushing to judgment. snot Jun 2016 #115
This vermin who massacred 49 LGBTQ and their friends... King_David Jun 2016 #133
"Officers may have shot Orlando club patrons" snot Jun 2016 #117
The right needs to wake up about guns. The left needs to wake up about Islam. cigsandcoffee Jun 2016 #4
What makes you think this has anything to do with islam? L. Coyote Jun 2016 #8
Maybe because the gunman was influenced by ISIS and its twisted romanic Jun 2016 #14
You didn't say twisted Islamic views you said Islam, Chrisitians "twist" views to also uponit7771 Jun 2016 #20
I said romanic Jun 2016 #39
You're right, the OP response said it and the point still stands... twisted Islamic views isn't what uponit7771 Jun 2016 #47
The people doing the killings say it's about Islam. ZombieHorde Jun 2016 #62
Christians do the same and in more volume in America (link) uponit7771 Jun 2016 #71
I don't understand what Christian violence has ZombieHorde Jun 2016 #72
Cause they say its about Islam doesn't make it so uponit7771 Jun 2016 #73
How do you know their motivation? ZombieHorde Jun 2016 #75
You are partially wrong on that pediatricmedic Jun 2016 #85
You don't understand the difference between Christianity and Islam elljay Jun 2016 #90
Do most Christians know this? OneGrassRoot Jun 2016 #122
Don't know what most Christians think elljay Jun 2016 #124
Mohammed created Islam, and he is the example of how a Muslim should live. braddy Jun 2016 #5
ISIS wouldn't exist lancer78 Jun 2016 #7
9-11 and other attacks happened before w went into Iraq. this guy was raised in the US JI7 Jun 2016 #9
It's copycat. Miles Archer Jun 2016 #35
copycat of what ? the guy was a human failure .beat his wife and hated gays JI7 Jun 2016 #51
I addressed the issue of western and particularly U.S. actions cali Jun 2016 #15
Good OP elljay Jun 2016 #92
ISIS long predates the invasion of Iraq, actually. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2016 #24
Islam is a religion struggling with modernity... Imajika Jun 2016 #16
Absolutely. well written and thoughtful response. Thanks. cali Jun 2016 #26
Great post. romanic Jun 2016 #41
+1000 smirkymonkey Jun 2016 #94
you are correct, but in the meantime, these nutbags need to be identified and resisted. nt TheFrenchRazor Jun 2016 #97
Amazing and succinct post Prism Jun 2016 #104
Thoughtful post. Thanks for opening this up for discussion Arazi Jun 2016 #21
As long as we recognize that the vast majority of Muslims are good people, just like the Japanese- pampango Jun 2016 #22
I thought I made that point pretty clearly in the OP cali Jun 2016 #28
You did. Just wanted to add my emphasis. n/t pampango Jun 2016 #74
Violent warped individuals will latch onto anything jberryhill Jun 2016 #23
Not at all if you include it into the ever growing group of fanatical fundamentalists Rex Jun 2016 #27
gunz pfah DustyJoe Jun 2016 #32
It is the tools used to kill, it is part of a culture of death that is worshiped at the trigger Rex Jun 2016 #38
It's the mindset of the culture that makes it easy.... chknltl Jun 2016 #87
wow DustyJoe Jun 2016 #30
nonsense is nonsense. really can't make heads or tails of your post cali Jun 2016 #33
bad placement DustyJoe Jun 2016 #44
thank you for clarifying that cali Jun 2016 #49
This message was self-deleted by its author Rex Jun 2016 #40
No need to over react kcjohn1 Jun 2016 #31
I can't help but wonder when I read some responses whether folks actually cali Jun 2016 #34
No they did not, it almost seems like an automatic defensive posture. Rex Jun 2016 #45
People don't usually like to give the other side of a political debate any credence The2ndWheel Jun 2016 #37
Only religious privilege makes it "really hard"... MellowDem Jun 2016 #42
brilliant short analysis AntiBank Jun 2016 #89
Definitely alarimer Jun 2016 #100
"They are excusing the problem to preserve their own power and privilege." trotsky Jun 2016 #118
Thoughtful of you to spell out so clearly what turns criticism of religion into bigotry. rug Jun 2016 #120
I can't think of one other belief system.... MellowDem Jun 2016 #125
Then you must not have read Mein Kampf. rug Jun 2016 #127
Fascists were calling others bigots? MellowDem Jun 2016 #130
Whenever you say EVERYONE (caps yours), you'd better be ready to own what follows. rug Jun 2016 #131
No it's not... MellowDem Jun 2016 #135
I'll give you a rec, Cali. Quackers Jun 2016 #43
thank you. I'm not surprised. People bristle when you try to discuss this rationally cali Jun 2016 #50
If it is terrorism, it is NOT Islamic. Islam is a religion, not a terror group. L. Coyote Jun 2016 #52
If it is terrorism, it is NOT Christian. Christianity is a religion, not a terror group. Dreamer Tatum Jun 2016 #55
Calling it that plays into the hands... YvonneCa Jun 2016 #70
really? that's YOUR definition of religion, but religion and violence are not mutually exclusive TheFrenchRazor Jun 2016 #98
Kick and rec Warren DeMontague Jun 2016 #54
The Kingdom has been working at radicalizing the religion far longer than USA policy... JCMach1 Jun 2016 #59
K&R...thanks for a thoughtful, well-written post, cali Glorfindel Jun 2016 #60
Thank you get the red out Jun 2016 #61
The only point I will make following the OPs reasoning that while not completely parallel the still_one Jun 2016 #64
As a child (a white, native born American), I lived in Beirut, Lebanon drmeow Jun 2016 #66
It's especially hard from a country founded on genocide, and built by stealing jtuck004 Jun 2016 #67
By way of historic fact, the slave trade was established in Africa by Arabic Muslims many many Bluenorthwest Jun 2016 #91
What?? Bringing actual historical fact into this discussion? How dare you? cali Jun 2016 #123
Is there anything currently analogous within any other major religion? Stonepounder Jun 2016 #76
I think there is an additional factor. DCBob Jun 2016 #77
No offense Bob but there are many, many Muslim dominate nations that conform to the hateful Bluenorthwest Jun 2016 #107
I just post this article when people decide being afraid of Muslims is the thing to do. Gore1FL Jun 2016 #82
then you posted it in the wrong fucking place, friend. cali Jun 2016 #83
Well, I guess it's really, really hard to talk about right wing militia groups.. mountain grammy Jun 2016 #86
He was mentioned in the article I linked. Gore1FL Jun 2016 #93
There is a reason kacekwl Jun 2016 #88
Abandoning my lurking. plimsoll Jun 2016 #95
I think yours are concerns only for those who favor one of those religions, those of us who think Bluenorthwest Jun 2016 #102
^^^This^^^ ProfessorGAC Jun 2016 #109
Correct, but not my point exactly. plimsoll Jun 2016 #112
It's also fairly disingenuous to limit the ideology to religions and limit the time scope to 20years Chathamization Jun 2016 #134
you are correct, it is difficult, but the truth should be spoken anyway. it does appear that islam TheFrenchRazor Jun 2016 #96
What about radical democratic terrorism? Isn't that the religion with the highest proportion? L. Coyote Jun 2016 #99
success enid602 Jun 2016 #105
Word salad. Sound and fury signifying nothing. lol. nt BootinUp Jun 2016 #106
What's word salad? If you are referring to my op, kindly point out how cali Jun 2016 #108
Its a bunch of words purporting to justify something BootinUp Jun 2016 #110
It justifies nothing. cali Jun 2016 #111
I wouldn't say it's hard, but it's hard for liberals/progressives, for multiple reasons: MadDAsHell Jun 2016 #113
Why wasn't Gandhi a terrorist? trotsky Jun 2016 #119
K&R for great discussion. n/t OneGrassRoot Jun 2016 #121
I think talking about it would be easier if there wasn't another side spouting nonsense ck4829 Jun 2016 #128
Case in point... ck4829 Jun 2016 #129
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