General Discussion

TBF

(36,673 posts)

43. Class -

Sat Jun 9, 2012, 05:35 PM

Jun 2012

the wealthy in this country have done a great job of convincing everyone that being rich is great. Encouraging individualism, then driving wedges between those categories is the way they keep everyone busy fighting while they rob us blind.

Until we can put aside the labels and realize that so-called "middle" income and "working class" have the same interests we are doomed. This is where the importance of unions came in - they forced folks to focus on class. So, the rich attacked unions and have been very successful at driving them out and demonizing them with multi-million dollar ad campaigns.

It is not that individual rich folks are necessarily "bad" or even that they haven't "worked hard" - it's that this economic system called capitalism only rewards greed and the very few at the top. It's not humane and it needs to go.

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The Wealthy Have 'Worked Hard' And Deserve To Keep Their Money [View all] Rozlee Jun 2012 OP

Religion, that's how. FarLeftFist Jun 2012 #1

Yes! Consider someone making a career choice: Compare tax exemption, auto-deference, social patrice Jun 2012 #5

that handmade34 Jun 2012 #12

Inheriting all that money is really hard work. nt nanabugg Jun 2012 #76

It's not their money.... chaska Jun 2012 #2

There are things you should not be allowed to profit off of. YellowRubberDuckie Jun 2012 #4

Do you actually mean that restaurants, bakeries, clothing manufacturers, builders and.. Walk away Jun 2012 #6

might I add handmade34 Jun 2012 #11

To be alive is to be exploitive FrodosPet Jun 2012 #128

the discussion is wealth handmade34 Jun 2012 #138

Then why would anyone do those things? dkf Jun 2012 #14

Only 13.5% of food workers make a livable wage thelordofhell Jun 2012 #17

YES. Shut down the clothing retail business, Nye Bevan Jun 2012 #18

Let me know before you pass that law 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #22

I believe I know what you mean. Some of those responding to you rhett o rick Jun 2012 #29

Precisely what I was getting at. YellowRubberDuckie Jun 2012 #32

Dont be too hard on them. They are just having some fun at your expense rhett o rick Jun 2012 #36

They have to reach for the most ridiculous or extreme examples, otherwise the paucity of their Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #40

I do not follow MightyOkie Jun 2012 #37

Where, oh where does anyone here say a doctor shouldnt get paid? That's called a rhett o rick Jun 2012 #45

There is a different between making a living and PROFITING off of something. YellowRubberDuckie Jun 2012 #65

+1 bahrbearian Jun 2012 #54

Especially when profits are valued over people... drokhole Jun 2012 #66

Everything comes from the sun or star stuff Sirveri Jun 2012 #112

Behind every great fortune is a great crime. Odin2005 Jun 2012 #116

I work damn hard too...or rather did... YellowRubberDuckie Jun 2012 #3

What does deserving to keep your money mean? Not paying taxes? dkf Jun 2012 #15

Of course not. YellowRubberDuckie Jun 2012 #34

It's harder to get people to understand, but I think a more compelling arguement is about patrice Jun 2012 #7

i.e. Money = It's artificial. They made it all up and now they are killing everyone with/for it. patrice Jun 2012 #8

Distinguish between wealth, illth, and money Dragonfli Jun 2012 #21

+100000 for Wilson reference! drokhole Jun 2012 #69

Your welcome!, I only wish I had not lost the original text to a flood Dragonfli Jun 2012 #77

"energy transferred"! I like this very much! nt patrice Jun 2012 #70

+1. Alan Watts on Money... drokhole Jun 2012 #67

AW was my first husband's guru. He was a motor-cycle gypsy who worked for big corporations patrice Jun 2012 #72

Alan Watts was my first "teacher" when my self education turned towards the east. I posted Dragonfli Jun 2012 #74

Over-generalization inaccurately describes reality slackmaster Jun 2012 #9

"I know wealthy people who really did work hard" Mairead Jun 2012 #93

good point ThomThom Jun 2012 #143

I swear America is experiencing Stockholm syndrome with our countries' rich. Initech Jun 2012 #10

+1000! SunSeeker Jun 2012 #50

I honestly don't know how a working person can say that. Marr Jun 2012 #13

Money = savings. dkf Jun 2012 #16

I don't follow you. Marr Jun 2012 #20

That is because it has little relation to reality. nt SunSeeker Jun 2012 #51

I think the rest of us have to start playing by THEIR rules, even though they keep telling us NOT to Volaris Jun 2012 #26

volaris!!! just righteous...just righteous liberalnationalist Jun 2012 #59

The other thing that crossed my mind this afternoon Volaris Jun 2012 #75

you deserve a hug handmade34 Jun 2012 #19

I have no grief with someone who through hard work, intelligence, skill, creativity, etc 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #23

I do... handmade34 Jun 2012 #46

So Bill Gates didn't contribute anything of value to society? 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #61

I didn't say that handmade34 Jun 2012 #92

The vast majority of innovation is done by a tiny handful of individuals 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #100

Actually, almost all of what Bill contributed WAS done by others, that is the funny part of Dragonfli Jun 2012 #111

Yes, he had an uncanny ability to aquire ownership of and profit off of the innovations of others. Dragonfli Jun 2012 #110

Then pick any innovator of your choosing 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #117

Tell her to send her SSI to Mittens to offset those taxes he pays n2doc Jun 2012 #24

It's hate. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #25

The rich own the government,military,mass media,... Phhhtttt Jun 2012 #27

I have no problem with people keeping the money they earn. rhett o rick Jun 2012 #28

I just don't get you. Herlong Jun 2012 #30

Because voters like her hurt us. SunSeeker Jun 2012 #52

How many relatives do have? Herlong Jun 2012 #53

There's no such thing as a wealthy person that has earned it. nt Comrade_McKenzie Jun 2012 #31

Not one? hack89 Jun 2012 #41

i think your missing the point liberalnationalist Jun 2012 #60

Kudos Herlong Jun 2012 #62

"Pays them well", How much are they making per hour and what benefits do they get? n/t Taitertots Jun 2012 #68

Well above minimum with good health care. nt hack89 Jun 2012 #71

How much do they make per hour? n/t Taitertots Jun 2012 #73

Depends on seniority. hack89 Jun 2012 #78

"Very good paying"? What is the hourly wage? n/t Taitertots Jun 2012 #79

Between 12 and 18. nt hack89 Jun 2012 #80

We have two very different opinions regarding the definitions of "very good paying" Taitertots Jun 2012 #81

Starting at $26,000 with health care hack89 Jun 2012 #82

It is well below living wage for anyone with a family to support Taitertots Jun 2012 #84

He is such an ogre hack89 Jun 2012 #90

You persist in misunderstanding Mairead Jun 2012 #94

+1000 handmade34 Jun 2012 #114

So what exactly is their labor is worth? hack89 Jun 2012 #123

You're joking, aren't you? Mairead Jun 2012 #130

So what profit is the owner due? hack89 Jun 2012 #133

Why should he be due profit rather than salary? Mairead Jun 2012 #136

He risked his capital for one. hack89 Jun 2012 #139

Okay, let's say that he started out a nobody Mairead Jun 2012 #146

Why not give people the choice to work for him? hack89 Jun 2012 #148

No reason why not -- as long as it's a real *choice* Mairead Jun 2012 #150

I made that choice and it was a real choice. hack89 Jun 2012 #154

I don't think you understand what "choice" means Mairead Jun 2012 #156

So if you had the power hack89 Jun 2012 #125

I'd limit business forms to (a) individual/immediate-family, and (b) cooperative/collective Mairead Jun 2012 #131

So how would you restrict individual initiative? hack89 Jun 2012 #134

I thought I understood your question, but I didn't. Could you ask it a different way? (nt) Mairead Jun 2012 #137

How are new businesses and products created? hack89 Jun 2012 #140

Someone (or several someones) decides to do it Mairead Jun 2012 #145

Good luck with that. hack89 Jun 2012 #149

From that response, I'm fairly sure you don't know what "human nature" is Mairead Jun 2012 #155

Is it free heathcare, or do the employees EARN it? JoePhilly Jun 2012 #95

Of course they earn it. hack89 Jun 2012 #124

Ever hear the phrase "total compensation"? JoePhilly Jun 2012 #158

I wouldn't use that term, but I'd seriously question whether he deserves his wealth Taitertots Jun 2012 #99

So if you had the power hack89 Jun 2012 #126

More progressive income taxation, significantly higher minimum wage... Taitertots Jun 2012 #159

Agree with most except taxing wealth and capital gains hack89 Jun 2012 #160

I'm guessing more than they would have made per hour if those jobs hadn't materialized 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #101

B/c if a tiny minority doesn't become wealthy while the masses struggle than no jobs will exist n/t Taitertots Jun 2012 #102

It's unclear what your grief is with this person 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #103

My grief is that people are claiming he deserves to be wealthy... Taitertots Jun 2012 #161

I remember the documentary I saw on the exploitative labor practices of community laundromats 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #164

What is stopping me? Duh, egregious income and wealth inequality is stopping me Taitertots Jun 2012 #165

Uh huh, so the man is keeping you from your dream of starting a laundromat business? 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #166

Economic inequality is keeping millions of people from realizing their dreams Taitertots Jun 2012 #167

And when has their not been economic inequality? 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #168

There is excessive inequality today. In the past it was significantly lower Taitertots Jun 2012 #169

"In the past it was significantly lower" 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #170

When those groups suffered economic inequality, they had almost no economic mobility Taitertots Jun 2012 #171

So in one post you claim inequality is at a historic high 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #172

In general income inequality was low, when you look at different groups you get different numbers Taitertots Jun 2012 #174

Thank goodness, someone with a brain. Puzzledtraveller Jun 2012 #153

That is pseudo-economic non-sense Taitertots Jun 2012 #162

That's not wealthy- that's upper middle class. Marr Jun 2012 #97

Years of psychological manipulation is almost impossible to overcome. I was startled years ago by... freshwest Jun 2012 #33

That's a pretty astounding test you were given. calimary Jun 2012 #47

I'm glad you make the effort to out-think poll takers. We all need to Populist_Prole Jun 2012 #119

"pat on the head" jaysunb Jun 2012 #63

I would love to see that test. Marr Jun 2012 #85

We were tested almost 4 hours a day for a week. The tests included calculus, history, logic and a freshwest Jun 2012 #87

I would say that it has gotten much worse now... kentuck Jun 2012 #88

That was what they did with us, to break our solidarity with each other, in teams of 10 or less. freshwest Jun 2012 #108

My observation is that a huge majority of workers do not understand... kentuck Jun 2012 #109

Ugghh!! What a truly rotten corporate culture it is there Populist_Prole Jun 2012 #118

Nothing red light like PR, entertainment, chemical or pharma. It's no longer in a recognizable form. freshwest Jun 2012 #122

The thread is worth reading for this post. NT lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #157

Workers are the ones who work hard. The wealthy just skim the profits off. begin_within Jun 2012 #35

Seems like a good time for a quote by Lincoln... kentuck Jun 2012 #38

Getting rich is not necessarily a function of working hard. freethought Jun 2012 #39

Plus there is no company/organization without the people. CBHagman Jun 2012 #91

I love you. 12AngryBorneoWildmen Jun 2012 #42

Class - TBF Jun 2012 #43

"I, like most of the American people, don't begrudge people success or wealth. That is part of the Karmadillo Jun 2012 #44

Growing up, I remember how everyone respected government. Seems to me that secondwind Jun 2012 #48

The principle source of wealth in the U.S. is not work, but coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #49

Moving money around in the stock market is exhausting. GoCubsGo Jun 2012 #55

I think we need to have a definition of what "rich" is Meiko Jun 2012 #56

I'd disagree. It's more important to know *how* the money was gained Mairead Jun 2012 #96

Worked hard trying to find more ways to steal from the 99%, nt crunch60 Jun 2012 #57

The one that gets me is OIL, Its theirs , they drilled it ,(they spilled it) they get the profits. bahrbearian Jun 2012 #58

You cannot be nice with these people. Dawson Leery Jun 2012 #64

So the richest 400 work harder, all put together, than the bottom 150 MILLION. woo me with science Jun 2012 #83

Workers also worked hard but deserve to have their income taken away to pay the wealthy. Kablooie Jun 2012 #86

that's a great rant. barbtries Jun 2012 #89

What does "wealthy" mean to her? ctaylors6 Jun 2012 #98

That's a very good point 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #104

Which is really the crux of the issue. What IS wealthy? mainer Jun 2012 #144

and does wealthy ctaylors6 Jun 2012 #147

Income is different than savings that isn't being touched. haele Jun 2012 #163

Amazing, isn't it? OnionPatch Jun 2012 #105

Agreed, this meme may have had its use in the old agrarian economy treestar Jun 2012 #106

If labor did not create the wealth... kentuck Jun 2012 #107

The wealthy make all their money from OUR work. Sirveri Jun 2012 #113

Networking at the country club is "hard work". Odin2005 Jun 2012 #115

Nobody deserves that much money. NOBODY. Hugabear Jun 2012 #120

Some rich people work hard while some don't Nikia Jun 2012 #121

The waelthy have raped and pillaged the poor to get rich (it's called greed) Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2012 #127

Many wealthy people have worked hard, many have not Hippo_Tron Jun 2012 #129

Paris Hilton works hard? GCP Jun 2012 #132

Working people work for money. kentuck Jun 2012 #135

Seems we give so much weight to imaginary constructs LanternWaste Jun 2012 #141

some did; probably a minute percentage. someone like michael moore, worked hard to get his cash. dionysus Jun 2012 #142

The Right tends to de-value any work that is not done behind a desk using a checkbook librechik Jun 2012 #151

The working poor DESERVE HEALTH CARE & EARNED ENTITLEMENTS when they grow too old & weak to work supraTruth Jun 2012 #152

We deserve health care and earned entitlements when we grow too old and too weak to work Herlong Jun 2012 #176

I agree completely Ghost of Huey Long Jun 2012 #173

No clobberin' time Herlong Jun 2012 #175