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kurt_cagle

(534 posts)
46. Centrists are ...
Sat Jun 9, 2012, 07:09 PM
Jun 2012

almost by definition, invested in the status quo.

I use the term right and left here as bad political shorthand. I believe that the default state for Americans is a moderate form of conservatism - don't change the status quo save those cases where such changes don't have any immediate effects upon them. They are not long term thinkers, but overall are neither inclined to be venal nor punitive towards others. The "right" are in fact made up of a handful of different interest groups - religious fundamentalists that would like to see a modern theocracy with them in charge, libertarians who philosophically believe that centralized federated government is wrong (govt as wealth redistributors), military leadership (who enforce empire), who prefer clear chains of command, and the petro-complex elite, who generally profit most from the existing empire. The "left" on the other hand include labor and trade unions, minorities (though this is really only true for minorities that have not yet developed significant socio-economic presence), women, creatives, academics and information professionals (barring a strong libertarian presence among programmers), environmentalists and scientific researchers.

Many of these people on the left are systemic thinkers. Women in general tend to take a longer, more global view than men, creatives are generally more aware of social threads and trends that help them think more systemically, and most academics, IT pros, environmentalists and researchers deal with systemic views on a daily basis. The right does have its systemic analysts as well, but most of these are in the arena of financial services where that systemic bent is biased towards either identifying trends for making money or for identifying potential danger points where money might be lost. Significantly, even there financial analysts still tend to be more progressive than their sales oriented associates.

People on the right generally far more doctrinaire than the left, usually take a far more short term view of the world, and are far less inclined to question themselves. Their reaction to criticism is generally to want to attack it as being wrong, whereas someone on the left looks at criticism as a data point in the systemic model they are creating. You can have left-leaning dogmatics, of course, people who become so invested in their models as to not recognize any alternative datapoints, but for some reason dogmatism seems to be a central characteristic of the right.

Finally you have sociopaths who may actually be quite good at systemic thinking, but just DON'T CARE about the consequences if it benefits them over any time scale that's important to them. They will take advantage of the analysis on the left to help shape their own thinking, but will then use the dogmatism of the right in order to hide the fact that THEY are the ones behind the fire-setting, even if it's not directly by their hand.

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That creak is the tipping point to the fascist state, PDJane Jun 2012 #1
Technically, it almost always probably was. But there was a time you could... Poll_Blind Jun 2012 #5
If we aren't exceptional why do we get to use up so much more resources per capita than others? dkf Jun 2012 #11
I keep getting hammered when I point that out. PDJane Jun 2012 #13
Are pigs exceptional just because they are, well, pigs? n/t jtuck004 Jun 2012 #22
And we are the pigs? Lol. dkf Jun 2012 #27
Thought you might like that one <G> n/t jtuck004 Jun 2012 #45
Not for long. That is not going to last. JDPriestly Jun 2012 #43
Buy vintage or used - I will NOT pay for clothes Made in China adigal Jun 2012 #57
Excellent analysis MannyGoldstein Jun 2012 #2
2000 was the tipping point. ManyShadesOf Jun 2012 #9
I see two different dates airplaneman Jun 2012 #14
It maybe can be fixed after some period of time, but it's what's going to... Poll_Blind Jun 2012 #12
i think the development of fascism in Italy is a better analogy. sudopod Jun 2012 #29
But even Germany got fixed Blue_In_AK Jun 2012 #41
Fixed how? Plucketeer Jun 2012 #53
Perhaps we should look to the Scandanavian countries for some guidance MannyGoldstein Jun 2012 #55
Wish I could give you a good argument. Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #3
It's a modern day Sodom and Gomorrah. Zalatix Jun 2012 #4
"...and The Road for everyone else." (Shudder) That's a... Poll_Blind Jun 2012 #21
Most people don't think it's THAT bad. Zalatix Jun 2012 #30
barbara satan bush and her eugenics sickness coming to roost. Dont call me Shirley Jun 2012 #36
Which is why President Obama said we're entering into an era of social Darwinism. Zalatix Jun 2012 #48
I feel it's like a run-away train. Alexander Cockburn wrote an article "So Who's the FAscist Here?" rhett o rick Jun 2012 #6
"How can we get a corrupt Congress to reform itself?" I don't think it can. I think we've... Poll_Blind Jun 2012 #33
I am afraid I agree. We have crossed the line. rhett o rick Jun 2012 #34
People hate it when you mention mick063 Jun 2012 #7
agree Mick oldhippydude Jun 2012 #15
I agree, plez see post 6. nm rhett o rick Jun 2012 #35
Apt in some respects, not in others kurt_cagle Jun 2012 #40
your choices ManyShadesOf Jun 2012 #8
I too believe that we have crossed the Rubicon me b zola Jun 2012 #10
That's similiar to what I was trying to say here......... socialist_n_TN Jun 2012 #16
And there's the rub: Even if you could get fair elections, you still... Poll_Blind Jun 2012 #58
What urgently needs to be done is to liquidate the empire Wolf Frankula Jun 2012 #17
I have been hearing that creak ever since the 2002passage of the Authorization to Use Military Force patrice Jun 2012 #18
I agree that it's too late even for reforms......... socialist_n_TN Jun 2012 #19
Nobody is going to do that........ Capt.Rocky300 Jun 2012 #24
Too bad then........... socialist_n_TN Jun 2012 #42
This message was self-deleted by its author socialist_n_TN Jun 2012 #20
As long as we keep increasing military spending ...everything will be fine. L0oniX Jun 2012 #23
Please. You're forgetting tax cuts for the rich, er, job GODS. nt valerief Jun 2012 #26
I keep saying we're the new USSR. We're the USSA. nt valerief Jun 2012 #25
Did you see the movie "The Day After Tomorrow" Dont call me Shirley Jun 2012 #38
The VP in the movie screams "Cheney". Odin2005 Jun 2012 #62
I heard it a few years ago. caseymoz Jun 2012 #28
Yes kurt_cagle Jun 2012 #32
Of course progressives arent the problem but the centrists would tell you different. rhett o rick Jun 2012 #39
Centrists are ... kurt_cagle Jun 2012 #46
The Third Way apologists are not "centrists." woo me with science Jun 2012 #51
I completely agree. However, it's the centrists that fight for status quo rhett o rick Jun 2012 #52
Problems are mounting faster than we can tackle them CanonRay Jun 2012 #54
People are just hearing this "creak" now? kurt_cagle Jun 2012 #31
Bush I was the tipping point (and Clinton pushed us farther) FarCenter Jun 2012 #37
I wish you were wrong.. 99Forever Jun 2012 #44
I thought that point was passed long ago stupidicus Jun 2012 #47
You make your point really well. bleever Jun 2012 #49
Sadly,....I agree /nt Dragonfli Jun 2012 #50
This is a hard thread to read but so damn important I carefully read every post riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #56
There is always someone saying this treestar Jun 2012 #59
At what point felix_numinous Jun 2012 #60
We have been kicking the can down the road for over 30 years Odin2005 Jun 2012 #61
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