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markpkessinger

(8,912 posts)

157. As a gay man, I hardly see classifying it as a hate crime as "downgrading" it n/t

Reply to David__77 (Reply #63)

Tue Jun 14, 2016, 01:12 PM

Jun 2016

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Can we just be honest about what was really going on with the Orlando shooter? [View all] markpkessinger Jun 2016 OP

Exactly. Like the workplace shooting in San Bernardino. But if you can conflate it with "terrorism," villager Jun 2016 #1

That one was most certainly terrorism metroins Jun 2016 #110

Except that he most certainly targeted *his workplace*. He was conflating his own act. villager Jun 2016 #145

I don't think so metroins Jun 2016 #215

Doesn't matter what you "think." He worked there, he came back angrily, he shot up the place. villager Jun 2016 #219

You're wrong metroins Jun 2016 #225

I'm sure you do defer to the authorities for most of your thinking. Nonetheless... villager Jun 2016 #245

Which of the Farooks spoke with ISIL directly? When and under what circumstances? mhatrw Jun 2016 #213

Google it metroins Jun 2016 #216

When someone says "google it" instead of providing a link, it's usually a bad sign. mhatrw Jun 2016 #227

The San Bernardino killers were gay, too??? PDittie Jun 2016 #138

That conflicts with what some want to see here jberryhill Jun 2016 #2

+10000000000000!!! 2naSalit Jun 2016 #153

or a large part of a group. MariaThinks Jun 2016 #190

Looking like oswaldactedalone Jun 2016 #3

Due Process metroins Jun 2016 #111

We lose voting rights every single year Boomer Jun 2016 #149

But dynamo99 Jun 2016 #178

The 5th Amendment takes a daily beating in this, a liberal web site. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #232

Exactly philosslayer Jun 2016 #4

Homophobic terrorism is still terrorism I think eom rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #127

Sure it is . . . markpkessinger Jun 2016 #164

his religion believes that homosexuals should be killed. MariaThinks Jun 2016 #191

If only more than just a few could see and admit this. elleng Jun 2016 #5

+1 n/t markpkessinger Jun 2016 #47

I think his family had a lot to do with it passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #202

Yes, a combo with lots of 'blame' on family. elleng Jun 2016 #204

Remember all the homophobe congress people Protalker Jun 2016 #229

A closet case radicalized by an outdated, anti gay religion ram2008 Jun 2016 #6

Exactly. n/t markpkessinger Jun 2016 #10

yes, thank you Amishman Jun 2016 #91

anything but that!!! 6chars Jun 2016 #192

many visits to club MFM008 Jun 2016 #7

He'd rather die with people thinking he was a terrorist TexasBushwhacker Jun 2016 #33

+1 baldguy Jun 2016 #83

Pretty fucked up. Agschmid Jun 2016 #101

I believe you have hit the nail square on the head! annabanana Jun 2016 #113

I don't understand what you mean passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #203

This is quite possible. People want celebrity-through-terrorism/mass murder... Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #233

isn't it more likely he was a regular to check the place out for attack ? and went to Orlando JI7 Jun 2016 #8

Read up on the arson of the Upstairs Lounge in New Orleans . . . markpkessinger Jun 2016 #13

I was gonna post that Roy Rolling Jun 2016 #39

Rachel Maddow just covered the story and included events like New Orleans, appalachiablue Jun 2016 #42

James Byrd Jr. wasn't gay cannabis_flower Jun 2016 #146

+1 n/t ejbr Jun 2016 #209

Possible, but oswaldactedalone Jun 2016 #14

Once or twice would have been plenty to case the joint. HooptieWagon Jun 2016 #17

What would your head be like if you were raised in a family that gives you two choices - straight or jtuck004 Jun 2016 #41

I love that poem; it is so true. potone Jun 2016 #143

there are reports he went more than a dozen times drray23 Jun 2016 #186

He liked going to gay bars. He was on gay dating apps. mhatrw Jun 2016 #214

Yes, what good is a profile in "casing?" Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #234

Homophobia, taught by his father, justified by religion, enabled by the NRA. targetpractice Jun 2016 #9

NRA? HoustonDave Jun 2016 #135

enabled, not endorsed passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #208

Thanks... targetpractice Jun 2016 #228

"...reluctant to engage gun enthusiasts." Seems like you were first in line. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #235

I don't follow... I don't see how the NRA enabled the Boston bombings. targetpractice Jun 2016 #242

You'll have to go back to archives, I guess. But the NRA was blamed in many, many posts. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #259

It's often better not to engage. passiveporcupine Jun 2016 #248

Pink Pistols would like a word with you. Ikonoklast Jun 2016 #136

+1. Though ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #183

Thanks. n/t targetpractice Jun 2016 #226

As I pointed out earlier today, an angry, isolated man, who sought to shock his listeners . . . Journeyman Jun 2016 #11

I think there is a deep connection to terrorism with this situation Laha Jun 2016 #118

I Was Thinking the Same Thing-Without the ISIS Cover He Might Have Felt Death Would Reveal Shame Stallion Jun 2016 #12

Exactly, IMO. HooptieWagon Jun 2016 #18

Exactly. The ISIS cover was fake. He also pledged to Al Queda. Two opposite extremist groups. Midnight Writer Jun 2016 #28

+1 n/t markpkessinger Jun 2016 #34

And claimed to be Hezbollah too. bullsnarfle Jun 2016 #109

+1 harun Jun 2016 #117

yep . . . n/t annabanana Jun 2016 #115

This is what I think also. DawgHouse Jun 2016 #182

thank you for this post KT2000 Jun 2016 #15

'Evidence' elleng Jun 2016 #16

Tragically funny that classmate comments of him celebrating after 911 attacks are questioned MariaThinks Jun 2016 #60

Omar Mateen was 14 years old when 9/11 happened . . . markpkessinger Jun 2016 #188

How do you ignore someone revelling in the death of 3000 Americans? MariaThinks Jun 2016 #189

.."14 year olds know what they are doing." Seriously??? NoMoreRepugs Jun 2016 #193

Apparently his opinions didnt change as he grew older. 7962 Jun 2016 #211

The sympathies he expressed as a 14-year-old . . . markpkessinger Jun 2016 #194

I strongly suspect... MountainMama Jun 2016 #205

Don't forget the way he despised anything female Warpy Jun 2016 #19

Your post makes me wonder if he isn't a deluded jilted lover AgadorSparticus Jun 2016 #20

even then it would usually result in attacking one or both of that couple JI7 Jun 2016 #22

Not necessarily. He feels stupid. Rejected. A wounded animal lashes out. AgadorSparticus Jun 2016 #27

With the information and insights coming forth it seems there was definitely appalachiablue Jun 2016 #51

He allegedly told his father he was offended by two guys kissing. HooptieWagon Jun 2016 #77

I think most of his motivation was self-hatred Doctor Jack Jun 2016 #21

On Hayes tonight he reported an academy mate claims of the shooter hitting on him after they'd gone uponit7771 Jun 2016 #23

Doesn't diminish the horror in the slightest . . . markpkessinger Jun 2016 #25

Not only aggandizes it, but also........ socialist_n_TN Jun 2016 #106

Exactly! n/t markpkessinger Jun 2016 #162

Yes, let's be honest. Behind the Aegis Jun 2016 #24

This doesn't get hetero-normative culture off the hook in the least . .. markpkessinger Jun 2016 #30

I agree, but you said "let's be honest," so let's be honest... Behind the Aegis Jun 2016 #32

How does this feed into hetero privilige? thx in advance for any input uponit7771 Jun 2016 #37

Because, once again, they don't have to think about homophobia. Behind the Aegis Jun 2016 #46

like those insisting if it was about the guy being a self hating gay it had nothing to do with JI7 Jun 2016 #50

DING! DING! DING! Behind the Aegis Jun 2016 #64

+10000 eom Arazi Jun 2016 #121

ok, thx... uponit7771 Jun 2016 #92

Your second paragraph is spot on. Hong Kong Cavalier Jun 2016 #48

"after all, who really gives a shit about gay people getting murdered?" FrodosPet Jun 2016 #49

Not IMO. Behind the Aegis Jun 2016 #69

People who have a murderous hatred don't need to be in a majority, and aren't. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #236

That's not realistic Ash_F Jun 2016 #62

You can't possibly know that. Behind the Aegis Jun 2016 #68

There is this too Ash_F Jun 2016 #98

A lot of people on this board are not comfortable dealing with the subject of Islamist terrorism. David__77 Jun 2016 #63

As witnessed by many posts in this thread. Behind the Aegis Jun 2016 #66

I'm disgusted in that I swear I hear a collective sigh of relief. David__77 Jun 2016 #70

You heard it too? Behind the Aegis Jun 2016 #71

"It certainly has nothing to do with concern for gay people." markpkessinger Jun 2016 #196

I dare observe what I observe and share my viewpoint. David__77 Jun 2016 #201

Thank you. (no text) Quantess Jun 2016 #84

Thanks for your posts. Puglover Jun 2016 #100

Yes melman Jun 2016 #76

I'm not comfortable using the verbiage the bigots use to describe anything, I'd like to stay far... uponit7771 Jun 2016 #96

^^^^This ^^^^ Arazi Jun 2016 #122

Completely agree. nt Dreamer Tatum Jun 2016 #134

As a gay man, I hardly see classifying it as a hate crime as "downgrading" it n/t markpkessinger Jun 2016 #157

I understand. David__77 Jun 2016 #173

But imagine of this guy had attended a RW christian church? 7962 Jun 2016 #210

A lot of Christians are far too comfortable demeaning Muslim bigotry. mhatrw Jun 2016 #218

That's possible. David__77 Jun 2016 #222

I knew it would not take long for this horseshit Puglover Jun 2016 #99

Yes, religions and bigots teach non gays to hate gays and this is tragic and criminal. mhatrw Jun 2016 #217

In YOUR opinoin. Behind the Aegis Jun 2016 #250

Sure, he was Muslim. But he was am American born Muslim who liked to get shitfaced in gay bars. mhatrw Jun 2016 #252

Reports from his wife. Behind the Aegis Jun 2016 #253

It's what I thought all along. Cracklin Charlie Jun 2016 #26

I Think You Are Correct, Sir Night Watchman Jun 2016 #29

I thought that almost immediately after the news broke Lint Head Jun 2016 #31

Absolutely spot on, mark! He didn't like ISIS, he liked OSIRIS. Dont call me Shirley Jun 2016 #35

Islam is a scapegoat for the right mwrguy Jun 2016 #36

I refuse to call Orlando "terrorism" unless and until . . . markpkessinger Jun 2016 #38

There is a lot of green (as in profits for the MIC) in terror. PatrickforO Jun 2016 #40

the most relevant thing....he was a gun owner with a WMD nt msongs Jun 2016 #43

Indeed . . . markpkessinger Jun 2016 #44

Let's not forget that the victims were all regular people just enjoying their lives. GumboYaYa Jun 2016 #207

I thought this from the beginning LittleGirl Jun 2016 #45

Why do people think every homophobe has to be a closested homosexual themself? LostOne4Ever Jun 2016 #52

Because his ex-wife said he had gay tendencies. He spent time on gay hook up apps. writes3000 Jun 2016 #54

I been looking this up and it seems pretty sketchy LostOne4Ever Jun 2016 #74

Um . . . no large newspaper is publishing this? markpkessinger Jun 2016 #174

First off, that article says nothing about his wife or classmate calling him gay LostOne4Ever Jun 2016 #195

He was at the same club he attacked a dozen+ times,... HooptieWagon Jun 2016 #78

Because a lot of people here melman Jun 2016 #56

Well because... Behind the Aegis Jun 2016 #73

Its sad how often that happens. The most dubious sources become "iron clad" truth. LostOne4Ever Jun 2016 #75

I agree! Behind the Aegis Jun 2016 #80

Straight men don't usually ask other men out for a date noiretextatique Jun 2016 #82

Thanks for a reasoned, alternative point of view. King_Klonopin Jun 2016 #53

Religion can be used as a weapon. Isis preys on isolated outsiders. writes3000 Jun 2016 #55

True. But, I don't consider ISIS is to be a religion. They are a hate group. King_Klonopin Jun 2016 #59

Yes, I agree. ISIS itself isn't a religion. writes3000 Jun 2016 #185

Any philosophy that tells you to turn off your mind and accept it without question is bad Fumesucker Jun 2016 #88

Speaking of flawed logic... Dark n Stormy Knight Jun 2016 #155

why don't you be honest then, instead of the sanitized explanation. MariaThinks Jun 2016 #57

What on Earth is "sanitized" about it? markpkessinger Jun 2016 #238

This was a hate crime, but where did the hate come from? MariaThinks Jun 2016 #239

I never disputed that his religion (or rather, his particular strain of his religion) . . . markpkessinger Jun 2016 #241

One Doesn't Have To Be Gay To Understand DallasNE Jun 2016 #58

I'm gay and I understand that this was an adherent of Islamic State who committed an act of terror. David__77 Jun 2016 #61

You know....the deeply cynical part of me wonders if an FBI agent didn't uncover the fact that he msanthrope Jun 2016 #67

One was after he said he knew the Boston bombers and the FBI found no proof. I think the 2nd uppityperson Jun 2016 #79

Preaching in support of the death penalty for homosexuals is very American. Demit Jun 2016 #137

Yes. But still, I don't want any foreigners allowed to come here and add to the vicious bigotry. Dems to Win Jun 2016 #240

Yes, he was twice investigated for ties to terrorist organizations . . . markpkessinger Jun 2016 #170

As I said in a prior thread....he hated gays. He chose a religion to bolster that hate.... msanthrope Jun 2016 #65

He chose a religion? oberliner Jun 2016 #102

Religion is a choice. He was an adult, wasn't he? nt msanthrope Jun 2016 #107

He chose to stay in the religion he was raised in oberliner Jun 2016 #108

No....no one is born into a religion. It's like Republicanism....once you are an adult, it's a msanthrope Jun 2016 #130

Yes, of course people are born into a religion oberliner Jun 2016 #131

Children are not born Muslim or Catholic, or whatever. That is imposed on them. msanthrope Jun 2016 #152

Yes, they are oberliner Jun 2016 #158

No...children are not "born" any religion. That's just acceptance of what authoritarians msanthrope Jun 2016 #163

Yes, they are oberliner Jun 2016 #168

And changing your thinking about the religion you are raised Ilsa Jun 2016 #198

Exactly oberliner Jun 2016 #255

You may have conflated culture and religion. AtheistCrusader Jun 2016 #154

You didn't choose to be a Christian oberliner Jun 2016 #159

No, I was never a chrisitan. AtheistCrusader Jun 2016 #167

You did not believe in God even though your parents did and instructed you to do so as well? oberliner Jun 2016 #169

Correct. AtheistCrusader Jun 2016 #171

That is impressive oberliner Jun 2016 #181

You are completely wrong. Your statement is akin to saying that no one is born into a language.... xocet Jun 2016 #148

No...that's you accepting an authoritarian mindset that predetermines children. msanthrope Jun 2016 #151

I think you're saying the same thing actually. AtheistCrusader Jun 2016 #172

"...into a religion..." means something different to each of us then. I agree religion is... xocet Jun 2016 #176

I totally agree with you, mark ReRe Jun 2016 #72

Check out the "Bath School Killings" sometime. 1939 Jun 2016 #86

Thanks... I will look that up now. eom ReRe Jun 2016 #87

I totally agree...never bought the ISIS angle noiretextatique Jun 2016 #81

Well said oswaldactedalone Jun 2016 #89

Let's all jump to conclusions! GeorgeGist Jun 2016 #85

So we're dismissing the terrorist watch list and FBI check thing now? ileus Jun 2016 #90

Don't forget the two trips to Saudi Arabia forthemiddle Jun 2016 #197

I think it's an example of how religion can screw people up... MellowDem Jun 2016 #93

the shooter fits the classic case of the "closeted gay"....who in a last fit of a breakdown to prove beachbum bob Jun 2016 #94

Totally agree. DCBob Jun 2016 #95

Plus he had tendencies to be violent and you get this result. Thinkingabout Jun 2016 #105

Yes agree. DCBob Jun 2016 #125

It is sad how many supposed "liberals" have bought the RW "Clash of Civilizations" BS. Odin2005 Jun 2016 #97

If this weren't suggested every single time there's a hate crime against gay people gollygee Jun 2016 #103

I agree people are often too quick to attribute every act of anti-gay violence . . . markpkessinger Jun 2016 #179

He didn't have to be tied to a terrorist group to do it for religious reasons Nt gollygee Jun 2016 #180

I never said religion wasn't a factor . . . markpkessinger Jun 2016 #199

I never said it was unique to Islam gollygee Jun 2016 #206

I agree with you. hertopos Jun 2016 #104

tormented ellennelle Jun 2016 #112

People can have more than one motivation. yellowcanine Jun 2016 #114

Makes the most sense to me but the media get's more ratings with the other narratives. harun Jun 2016 #116

I think it is indeed a complex case. alarimer Jun 2016 #119

He could have had MORE THAN ONE motive. n/t Herman4747 Jun 2016 #120

People are scrambling to find a reason for Politicub Jun 2016 #123

Here's an MSN article that has more detail on motivations and.... socialist_n_TN Jun 2016 #124

K&R.. disillusioned73 Jun 2016 #126

My suspicion exactly Mira Jun 2016 #128

Palm Beach Post is confirming your theory he was closeted gay, asked classmate out in hs. catbyte Jun 2016 #129

Seems to declare ISIS gives a kind of permission to kill and hides the real reason. Kablooie Jun 2016 #132

The "fear factor" in tying it to "jihad" is just what the doctor ordered for an NorthCarolina Jun 2016 #133

+1 FailureToCommunicate Jun 2016 #139

Could not agree more vlyons Jun 2016 #140

I'm not gay, but reached the same conclusion. He was sinkingfeeling Jun 2016 #141

+1000 heaven05 Jun 2016 #142

If your father's view is that you shouldn't kill gays because god will do it for you... brooklynite Jun 2016 #144

Seems reasonable to consider the idea that the shooter was filled with self-loathing ... Scuba Jun 2016 #147

Possible, but let's wait and see. Android3.14 Jun 2016 #150

You're getting shit from the usual suspects, but I agree with you. closeupready Jun 2016 #156

Or a toxic clash of both? progressoid Jun 2016 #160

I think that a major personality disorder was part of the equation milestogo Jun 2016 #161

"A Well-Regulated Militia..." does NOT = ... modestybl Jun 2016 #165

155+ Recs as I write this.. We know it.. we know it.. phazed0 Jun 2016 #166

Whats another example of this scenario? ErikJ Jun 2016 #175

The arson of the Upstairs Lounge in New Orleans in 1973 markpkessinger Jun 2016 #187

Islam is what made him feel that way though. nm mr_liberal Jun 2016 #177

Perhaps ... markpkessinger Jun 2016 #184

Unlike Christianity, which would have taught him love instead. mhatrw Jun 2016 #220

The Tao: "If you want to shrink something, you must allow it to expand" Miles Archer Jun 2016 #200

The whole 911 call pledge to ISIS smells like bullshit to me. mhatrw Jun 2016 #212

The point wasn't to convince the 911 operator Ruby the Liberal Jun 2016 #221

Do we even know whether he was Sunni or Shiite? mhatrw Jun 2016 #223

We'll never know Ruby the Liberal Jun 2016 #224

We'll never know only because actual journalism is long dead in our society. mhatrw Jun 2016 #231

The great majority of Afghans are Sunni . . . markpkessinger Jun 2016 #237

Do we even know if he was Muslim? L. Coyote Jun 2016 #244

You may be right �bout this. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #230

Why isn't everyone talking about this aspect: L. Coyote Jun 2016 #243

Had he been to the club more than once PRIOR to seeing the men kissing? rocktivity Jun 2016 #246

I'm concerned about Mateen's widow living with his father... targetpractice Jun 2016 #247

DING DING DING! Rocktivity, you're our grand prize winner! rocktivity Jun 2016 #249

uh oh melman Jun 2016 #251

A law enforcement official who dare not speak his name? rocktivity Jun 2016 #254

lol melman Jun 2016 #256

He may very well be lying rocktivity Jun 2016 #258

Whether or not he said this to his wife ... markpkessinger Jun 2016 #257

so are you suggesting that there is no threat from ISIS? RussBLib Jun 2016 #260

Hello? Where did I ever say anything like that? markpkessinger Jun 2016 #262

Agreed... He made a big display of his homophobia in recent months... targetpractice Jun 2016 #261

To answer your originally posted question, rocktivity Jun 2016 #263