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In reply to the discussion: Is Glenn Greenwald trying to save face? [View all]ProSense
(116,464 posts)12. For example,
Greenwald support Citizens United. I do not consider that a liberal position.
What the Supreme Court got right
By Glenn Greenwald
The Supreme Court yesterday, in a 5-4 decision, declared unconstitutional (on First Amendment grounds) campaign finance regulations which restrict the ability of corporations and unions to use funds from their general treasury for electioneering purposes. The case, Citizens United v. FEC, presents some very difficult free speech questions, and Im deeply ambivalent about the courts ruling. There are several dubious aspects of the majoritys opinion (principally its decision to invalidate the entire campaign finance scheme rather than exercising judicial restraint through a narrower holding). Beyond that, I believe that corporate influence over our political process is easily one of the top sicknesses afflicting our political culture. But there are also very real First Amendment interests implicated by laws which bar entities from spending money to express political viewpoints.
I want to begin by examining several of the most common reactions among critics of this decision, none of which seems persuasive to me. Critics emphasize that the Courts ruling will produce very bad outcomes: primarily that it will severely exacerbate the problem of corporate influence in our democracy. Even if this is true, its not really relevant. Either the First Amendment allows these speech restrictions or it doesnt. In general, a law that violates the Constitution cant be upheld because the law produces good outcomes (or because its invalidation would produce bad outcomes).
One of the central lessons of the Bush era should have been that illegal or unconstitutional actions warrantless eavesdropping, torture, unilateral Presidential programs cant be justified because of the allegedly good results they produce (Protecting us from the Terrorists). The rule of law means we faithfully apply it in ways that produce outcomes we like and outcomes we dont like. Denouncing court rulings because they invalidate laws one likes is what the Right often does (see how they reflexively and immediately protest every state court ruling invaliding opposite-sex-only marriage laws without bothering to even read about the binding precedents), and that behavior is irrational in the extreme. If the Constitution or other laws bar the government action in question, then thats the end of the inquiry; whether those actions produce good results is really not germane. Thus, those who want to object to the Courts ruling need to do so on First Amendment grounds. Except to the extent that some constitutional rights give way to so-called compelling state interests, that the Courts decision will produce bad results is not really an argument.
<...>
Im also quite skeptical of the apocalyptic claims about how this decision will radically transform and subvert our democracy by empowering corporate control over the political process. My skepticism is due to one principal fact: I really dont see how things can get much worse in that regard. The reality is that our political institutions are already completely beholden to and controlled by large corporate interests (Dick Durbin: banks own the Congress). Corporations find endless ways to circumvent current restrictions their armies of PACs, lobbyists, media control, and revolving-door rewards flood Washington and currently ensure their stranglehold and while this decision will make things marginally worse, I cant imagine how it could worsen fundamentally. All of the hand-wringing sounds to me like someone expressing serious worry that a new law in North Korea will make the country more tyrannical. Theres not much room for our corporatist political system to get more corporatist. Does anyone believe that the ability of corporations to influence our political process was meaningfully limited before yesterdays issuance of this ruling?
http://www.salon.com/2010/01/22/citizens_united/
By Glenn Greenwald
The Supreme Court yesterday, in a 5-4 decision, declared unconstitutional (on First Amendment grounds) campaign finance regulations which restrict the ability of corporations and unions to use funds from their general treasury for electioneering purposes. The case, Citizens United v. FEC, presents some very difficult free speech questions, and Im deeply ambivalent about the courts ruling. There are several dubious aspects of the majoritys opinion (principally its decision to invalidate the entire campaign finance scheme rather than exercising judicial restraint through a narrower holding). Beyond that, I believe that corporate influence over our political process is easily one of the top sicknesses afflicting our political culture. But there are also very real First Amendment interests implicated by laws which bar entities from spending money to express political viewpoints.
I want to begin by examining several of the most common reactions among critics of this decision, none of which seems persuasive to me. Critics emphasize that the Courts ruling will produce very bad outcomes: primarily that it will severely exacerbate the problem of corporate influence in our democracy. Even if this is true, its not really relevant. Either the First Amendment allows these speech restrictions or it doesnt. In general, a law that violates the Constitution cant be upheld because the law produces good outcomes (or because its invalidation would produce bad outcomes).
One of the central lessons of the Bush era should have been that illegal or unconstitutional actions warrantless eavesdropping, torture, unilateral Presidential programs cant be justified because of the allegedly good results they produce (Protecting us from the Terrorists). The rule of law means we faithfully apply it in ways that produce outcomes we like and outcomes we dont like. Denouncing court rulings because they invalidate laws one likes is what the Right often does (see how they reflexively and immediately protest every state court ruling invaliding opposite-sex-only marriage laws without bothering to even read about the binding precedents), and that behavior is irrational in the extreme. If the Constitution or other laws bar the government action in question, then thats the end of the inquiry; whether those actions produce good results is really not germane. Thus, those who want to object to the Courts ruling need to do so on First Amendment grounds. Except to the extent that some constitutional rights give way to so-called compelling state interests, that the Courts decision will produce bad results is not really an argument.
<...>
Im also quite skeptical of the apocalyptic claims about how this decision will radically transform and subvert our democracy by empowering corporate control over the political process. My skepticism is due to one principal fact: I really dont see how things can get much worse in that regard. The reality is that our political institutions are already completely beholden to and controlled by large corporate interests (Dick Durbin: banks own the Congress). Corporations find endless ways to circumvent current restrictions their armies of PACs, lobbyists, media control, and revolving-door rewards flood Washington and currently ensure their stranglehold and while this decision will make things marginally worse, I cant imagine how it could worsen fundamentally. All of the hand-wringing sounds to me like someone expressing serious worry that a new law in North Korea will make the country more tyrannical. Theres not much room for our corporatist political system to get more corporatist. Does anyone believe that the ability of corporations to influence our political process was meaningfully limited before yesterdays issuance of this ruling?
http://www.salon.com/2010/01/22/citizens_united/
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Everyone knows, because he told people, that he initially supported the Iraq war and was then
sabrina 1
Jun 2012
#2
Failed attempt to twist my words. Look again. YOU claimed that it was villainous
sabrina 1
Jun 2012
#26
Oh there's much more, that is just the lightweight stuff which I though you might be interested in.
sabrina 1
Jun 2012
#30
He wasn't comfortable with his support as he explains in his book, because things struck him as not
sabrina 1
Jun 2012
#29
GG should have done what John Kerry did in 2004, i.e., say he would still have
coalition_unwilling
Jun 2012
#73
Oh I threw Juan Cole under the bus long before that, when he turned around and supported the Iraq
sabrina 1
Jun 2012
#39
great post (as always), Sabrina; i'm sure it was meant to be directed at someone else
inna
Jun 2012
#58
You disagree with Greenwald on one position: therefore he is not a liberal journalist?
girl gone mad
Jun 2012
#16
The Civil Liberties Union had the exact same position as Greenwald on Citizens United.
sabrina 1
Jun 2012
#37
I did a search and discovered/remembered his infamy as an attorney, Defense attorney for a Neo-Nazi
GarroHorus
Jun 2012
#65
Only if you believe that the accused are not entitled to a defense and
Luminous Animal
Jun 2012
#164
Truth: Greenwald defended Hale in a First Amendment civil rights case...
Luminous Animal
Jun 2012
#163
He isn't attacking a liberal journalist. He's attacking a FAKE liberal journalist. n/t
GarroHorus
Jun 2012
#60
If you don't want someone writing these truths about Obama, talk to Obama about not
Lionessa
Jun 2012
#13
Welcome back? That's quite a personal attack on a longtime DU member from someone who.....
Tarheel_Dem
Jun 2012
#41
Thank goodness for the TOS. A jury let the post stand, but Skinner took out the trash!
Tarheel_Dem
Jun 2012
#125
You still didn't explain how you know the inner workings and posting histories of DU members.....
Tarheel_Dem
Jun 2012
#108
And by "virtually everyone" you mean the anti-Obama left at DU? How's this? Why don't we all...
Tarheel_Dem
Jun 2012
#142
Is there a reason you obsess on journalists and bloggers who fall to the left of you?
LeftyMom
Jun 2012
#14
Starting a skillion threads about some journalist who offended you is obsessive.
LeftyMom
Jun 2012
#23
"some journalist who offended you is obsessive". You probably didn't intent it, but....
Tarheel_Dem
Jun 2012
#31
Should Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, or John Kerry be chastised for their commentary on Obama?
Tierra_y_Libertad
Jun 2012
#57
+1. "Add defender of a Neo-Nazi to the list and the fucker is anything BUT liberal."
Tarheel_Dem
Jun 2012
#119
And guess what? I agree with you. His affection for Ron Paul style politics is a dead giveaway.
Tarheel_Dem
Jun 2012
#131
Glenn's a blowhard nitwit, like much of the professionally-opinionated class
struggle4progress
Jun 2012
#66
Character assassination OP. Glen Greenwald is a journalist and nothing more.
morningfog
Jun 2012
#67
It's not surprising from a guy so connected to Matthew Hale, Neo-Nazi murderer.
GarroHorus
Jun 2012
#71
Really? Here he discusses Telcom immunity and domestic spying with Cass Sunstein...
Octafish
Jun 2012
#98
A paid, amoral shill with the mind of a savant & the heart of a robot
DisgustipatedinCA
Jun 2012
#86
"I'm not "defending crappy policy" I'm criticizing a smug, self-righteous and hypocritical asshole."
girl gone mad
Jun 2012
#139
I dont mind you calling Greenwald or other public figure names, but I am hoping you are
rhett o rick
Jun 2012
#111
Anyone who looked at it rationally and thought it through knew there were no WMD
quaker bill
Jun 2012
#88
My rational was that if Bush said they had WMD then I was convinced they didnt. It's actually
rhett o rick
Jun 2012
#113
GG lost all credibility when he gave a thumbs-up to the Iraq War and Citizens United.
AtomicKitten
Jun 2012
#104
How can you attack a liberal journalist for something you excuse in Democratic politicians?
Marr
Jun 2012
#118
How can you attack a liberal journalist for something you excuse in Democratic politicians?
Marr
Jun 2012
#134
Greenwald is a right wing turd masquerading as left to enlist the useful idiots
alcibiades_mystery
Jun 2012
#120