General Discussion

Matrosov

(1,098 posts)

59. You should care

Thu Jun 16, 2016, 01:24 AM

Jun 2016

The Trump-esque approach of 'We're gonna take your guns and it's gonna be yyyuuugggeee!!!' isn't going to get us anywhere. If outrage alone could change things, we'd have passed some better gun control measures a long time ago.

The reality is that we need to fight the battle by appealing to people who sit on the fence on the issue of firearms and hopefully even get a few RKBA supporters on our side. But to do that, we need to make some good arguments, and to make some good arguments, we need to educate ourselves better.

As for guns, yeah, I like to talk about them. They are a public health issue that needs to be addressed.

They don't like me much in the gungeon though, because whenever I visit, I have a nasty habit of saying 'We're gonna take your guns and it's gonna be yyyuuugggeee!!!'

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Your guide to semi-automatic rifles [View all] Matrosov Jun 2016 OP

The magazine loophole was a problem with the old AWB Kaleva Jun 2016 #1

Are these magazines "in common use for lawful purposes"? pipoman Jun 2016 #71

the gun crowd has spent over a decade stocking up, we are flooded with high capacity clips Amishman Jun 2016 #94

I value my 30-round magazines at $3,000 each appal_jack Jun 2016 #169

Every friggin one of those, and semi-auto pistols, should be banned no matter how gunners squeal. Hoyt Jun 2016 #2

This mwrguy Jun 2016 #16

So then we need to stop being distracted by the useless AWB concept. Recursion Jun 2016 #29

+1000. nt ecstatic Jun 2016 #69

Thank you. Concise information such as this will help elevate the debate . . . Journeyman Jun 2016 #3

Ahh... Sweet innocence... TipTok Jun 2016 #73

I'd drop the names altogether in this discussion ... JoePhilly Jun 2016 #4

Magazine capacity is perhaps the most important factor Matrosov Jun 2016 #23

I disagree with the path you take. JoePhilly Jun 2016 #31

Not impossible but unlikely Matrosov Jun 2016 #53

"you just have to regularly prove you know how to use them safely" pipoman Jun 2016 #77

You can 3D print magazines now Lee-Lee Jun 2016 #164

But a ban could mandate things he may be charged with if he does, correct? jmg257 Jun 2016 #168

All Perfect For Hunting Humans. nt onehandle Jun 2016 #5

Yep. Hoyt Jun 2016 #19

That describes all rifles. ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #57

Yep. Bagging the limit in under 5 minutes. TheCowsCameHome Jun 2016 #68

Pretty sure that's illegal... TipTok Jun 2016 #74

I have several hundred MIRVs ready to launch from my backyard. onehandle Jun 2016 #76

Bulk purchase? TipTok Jun 2016 #82

Good info, thanks Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #6

Good info. Thanks. Gidney N Cloyd Jun 2016 #7

"I feel that progressives will have more power to face the NRA and its supporters if those Brickbat Jun 2016 #8

Republicans have blocked pro-environment legislation for years while knowing nothing about it Orrex Jun 2016 #11

Our laws rely on precision of language. And you're right: When precision becomes overly specific, Brickbat Jun 2016 #12

But there's precision and then there's precision: Orrex Jun 2016 #17

So do you join me in opposing renewing the Assault Weapons Ban Recursion Jun 2016 #28

If it prevents even one death, then I'd say that it's worth having Orrex Jun 2016 #30

It doesn't. Every single gun up there would remain legal. Some would need a slightly different grip Recursion Jun 2016 #32

They don't want to know.. sendero Jun 2016 #66

You describe my path over the past 20 years. Brickbat Jun 2016 #79

I sure the good folks at Pulse TheCowsCameHome Jun 2016 #9

Because gun porn waits for no tragedy Orrex Jun 2016 #10

Knowledge is crap? Matrosov Jun 2016 #13

Orrex nails it in #17. We don't need to know the details. hunter Jun 2016 #24

OK, so you join me in opposing the Assault Weapons Ban since it keeps these guns legal? Recursion Jun 2016 #26

I think this gun love is a public health problem like cigarettes. hunter Jun 2016 #36

One problem with that argument however bighart Jun 2016 #78

The second amendment is an ugly constitutional anachronism, just like slavery was. hunter Jun 2016 #81

What in your opinion is the best path forward? bighart Jun 2016 #84

Go after guns like we went after cigarettes. hunter Jun 2016 #89

I appreciate your response and your passion. bighart Jun 2016 #92

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #114

LOL, here's a good example: FSogol Jun 2016 #115

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #119

Ronald Reagan was surrounded by well trained, well armed men. hunter Jun 2016 #118

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #120

The gun love sifter rejects the stories where things turn out worse for the "defender." hunter Jun 2016 #121

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #123

I've been in rough situations, more than the average gun owner, sometimes against armed people. hunter Jun 2016 #129

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #135

Yup, piss on guns Matrosov Jun 2016 #33

Same way my mom got rid of my crazy grandma's guns. hunter Jun 2016 #43

You obviously haven't heard me argue with climate change deniers. hunter Jun 2016 #46

FYI...You're flogging an ally Marengo Jun 2016 #80

No, I'm not. hunter Jun 2016 #90

He can speak for himself, but as I remember he would like a complete ban on the civilian... Marengo Jun 2016 #91

Because gun control folks TeddyR Jun 2016 #50

Gun-nut excuse making minimization garbage Dem2 Jun 2016 #14

A good example of why gun control legislation keeps failing. Matrosov Jun 2016 #15

Sigh. Exactly *one* thing determines volume of fire: detachable magazines Recursion Jun 2016 #18

The AWB isn't a good example of a solution - never said it was Dem2 Jun 2016 #20

What's embarrassing? That seemed pretty accurate to me. Recursion Jun 2016 #22

Exactly Matrosov Jun 2016 #24

I didn't say there was a FUNCTIONAL difference. Dem2 Jun 2016 #39

Which means we need to give up on the whole "military style" nonsense completely Recursion Jun 2016 #41

It's a catchy phrase, it makes sense based on the design parameters and Dem2 Jun 2016 #47

Nice, concise summary sarisataka Jun 2016 #21

Penis pictures. hunter Jun 2016 #27

Those are what you think penises look like? aikoaiko Jun 2016 #37

. sarisataka Jun 2016 #40

Gun love is a shameful thing. hunter Jun 2016 #44

...and all of them kinda make me wanna puke. cyberswede Jun 2016 #34

This is the only guide I need: RandySF Jun 2016 #35

But then let's argue against semi-automatics in general Matrosov Jun 2016 #38

The defining Crepuscular Jun 2016 #70

I'll admit Matrosov Jun 2016 #104

couple Crepuscular Jun 2016 #126

yep, helped along by the Australian ban Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #151

So then we need to stop futzing about with what the kind of gun that can do that *looks like* Recursion Jun 2016 #42

Precisely. There are too many people in this country that know that we're behaving pablo_marmol Jun 2016 #99

Good post. Sadly lost on most. n/t X_Digger Jun 2016 #45

It's gun porn. hunter Jun 2016 #48

Do we judge the effectiveness of birth control by its looks? Matrosov Jun 2016 #49

Who the fuck cares? hunter Jun 2016 #54

You should care Matrosov Jun 2016 #59

SHAME on you for bringing light rather that heat into this discussion!!! pablo_marmol Jun 2016 #62

Same thing as when you try to start an intelligent discussion 1939 Jun 2016 #88

Yeah......... pablo_marmol Jun 2016 #98

People "sitting on the fence" are ignorant. hunter Jun 2016 #85

Bad analogy. Nuts are lured to guns by their looks. SunSeeker Jun 2016 #60

So what is your solution? TeddyR Jun 2016 #51

The problem is gun grabbers will run about spouting incorrect BS and look like idiots The Straight Story Jun 2016 #52

Yeah, I'm a gun grabber. hunter Jun 2016 #56

You are just proud of your ignorance hack89 Jun 2016 #65

Tha is a chief requirement to be a journalist. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #100

And there's so little excuse now with the greatest research tool in the history of the world... PoliticAverse Jun 2016 #103

Noble ignorance is no position to argue *for*. X_Digger Jun 2016 #133

You assume I'm ignorant. hunter Jun 2016 #137

I assume that anyone who says 'Piss on it" to knowledge is ignorant, or intends to keep others so. X_Digger Jun 2016 #138

I said "Piss on guns" hunter Jun 2016 #140

I put quotes around it because you said it. "We don't need to know the detail" *shrug* n/t X_Digger Jun 2016 #144

And yet the AWB you mock would have stopped the sale of the assault rifle the Pulse shooter used. SunSeeker Jun 2016 #55

He bought what was at the store. pipoman Jun 2016 #83

A folding stock AR should not have been at the store. SunSeeker Jun 2016 #97

You misunderstand federal gun regulations hack89 Jun 2016 #101

Oh hack, how you do love to mansplain. I understand the regs just fine. SunSeeker Jun 2016 #107

SIG sells a 27 inch fixed stocked rifle as do many other manufacturers hack89 Jun 2016 #113

All that shit should be illegal. NT SunSeeker Jun 2016 #124

It is perfectly acceptable in polite company to admit you were wrong, you know. nt hack89 Jun 2016 #128

1. I am not in polite company. 2. I am not wrong. nt SunSeeker Jun 2016 #134

So all there are no short fixed stocked rifles? hack89 Jun 2016 #136

You should try reading my posts, instead of rushing to attack me. SunSeeker Jun 2016 #141

Pretty sad when I have to show you your original post hack89 Jun 2016 #142

that was hilarious Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #152

Pretty sad when you refuse to read. SunSeeker Jun 2016 #155

Yes and it was correctly pointed out Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #158

How about this rifle? Should it be outlawed also? oneshooter Jun 2016 #131

It's still a semi-automatic n/t Matrosov Jun 2016 #139

But uses an internal magazine loaded with a 8 shot clip. It dates from 1936. oneshooter Jun 2016 #143

Really? You don't really believe that complete silliness do you? pipoman Jun 2016 #122

Read the timeline for the Pulse attack. SunSeeker Jun 2016 #125

Fantasy and folly. pipoman Jun 2016 #127

That link is not helpful... jmg257 Jun 2016 #132

The Bushmaster M17 was a popular, very short gun sold legally during the 1994 AWB NickB79 Jun 2016 #106

It should not have been legal. And you could have made your point without the gun porn. SunSeeker Jun 2016 #109

I posted it to show how short it was. A picture is worth a thousand words, as they say NickB79 Jun 2016 #110

Like I said, that picture does not confirm that AR's length. SunSeeker Jun 2016 #112

This better for you? Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #154

... SunSeeker Jun 2016 #156

Knew you could not resist the childish penis jokes Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #157

No, but apparently it's the best you have. nt SunSeeker Jun 2016 #159

What civil discussion? Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #161

Gun porn is actually important Matrosov Jun 2016 #174

Gun porn is indeed important to selling guns. SunSeeker Jun 2016 #175

Bulllpup, those are very interesting versions Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #153

And yet most of those "mass shootings" were done with pistols. n/t oneshooter Jun 2016 #130

Then it only makes sense to ban all semi-autos like Australia did. ErikJ Jun 2016 #58

So maybe stop accusing those of us who point that out of "gun porn"? Recursion Jun 2016 #61

Come again? Straw Man Jun 2016 #63

They did experience a drastic reduction in suicides after their guns bans though... Lancero Jun 2016 #64

+1000 LOLOL, so do I!!!!! AntiBank Jun 2016 #170

It didn't "greatly reduce suicides"....it may have reduced suicides by the banned guns... pipoman Jun 2016 #86

That can happen immediately after the constitutional convention pipoman Jun 2016 #87

I have an SKS that was given to me 10 years ago...never shot it. ileus Jun 2016 #67

Great thread Matrosov. GOLGO 13 Jun 2016 #72

Valiant effort but there is an active and conscious resistance to education about firearms.. TipTok Jun 2016 #75

Let the controllers fuck it up once again hack89 Jun 2016 #93

Thank you for this. bighart Jun 2016 #95

More apologists for so-called "assault rifles." "They are fun to shoot . . . . . .and intimidate." Hoyt Jun 2016 #96

I appreciate the thread. Educating folks on guns is a tough, tough chore on DU. nt Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #102

So is my 12-gauge shotgun with a pistol grip... NaturalHigh Jun 2016 #105

Is it semi-auto? It would be if this bill became law: jmg257 Jun 2016 #111

I have a pistol grip and the capacity to load more than 5 rounds. NaturalHigh Jun 2016 #116

Well -since that brilliant ban also has a grandfather clause - hold onto it - it'll be $$$. jmg257 Jun 2016 #117

So this 1930 Browning A-5 is an assualt weapon? oneshooter Jun 2016 #145

Not seeing why it would be. Great shotgun. Just don't add a mag extension (vs the bill linked above) jmg257 Jun 2016 #146

It has a pistol grip and will hold 6 rounds total with no plug. n/t oneshooter Jun 2016 #147

Thats not a pistol grip. Think Benelli M4. Mag is only 5... jmg257 Jun 2016 #148

I suspect my VEPR 12 is on the "naughty" list. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #150

I just googled it. NaturalHigh Jun 2016 #166

Well, at least I'll have good company. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #167

Great post. One problem: how do we get back the billions of high-capacity magazines? NickB79 Jun 2016 #108

We don't. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #149

You pass a law which outlaws them. JustABozoOnThisBus Jun 2016 #165

Bumping in service to the truth. NT pablo_marmol Jun 2016 #160

K&R nt ProudProgressiveNow Jun 2016 #162

Thank you for the informative post. Information is always good. jack_krass Jun 2016 #163

Your guide to region-bashing: Paladin Jun 2016 #171

Why is that? Matrosov Jun 2016 #172

To expand on that Matrosov Jun 2016 #173