General Discussion

NanceGreggs

(27,835 posts)

36. Perhaps you could enlighten those of us ...

Tue Jun 21, 2016, 02:13 AM

Jun 2016

... who don't share your obviously thorough knowledge of the TPP by citing the specific provisions that "end American sovereignty" and "ships millions and millions and millions of American jobs overseas"?

In addition to the foregoing, could you include a full list of any and all passages that impact on the specific provisions you will be citing, and the circumstances under which those provisions would be altered or modified in any way by subsequent passages in the body of the treaty?

I'm a court reporter, and have been on cases involving international trade agreements. They are incredibly complicated documents - to the point where judges, with years of experience in international law, are often perplexed by their language and true intent.

So it's nice to know that someone on the internet has read the treaty in its entirety, understands it fully, and is able to explain its intricacies to the rest of us.

TIA.

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A real Democrat doesn't support the TPP... [View all] TheProgressive Jun 2016 OP

Does not President Obama support it? Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #1

Yes, what's your point? rhett o rick Jun 2016 #11

I think it is quite obvious Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #14

I hope you don't mean that because the President approves we must all fall in line. rhett o rick Jun 2016 #15

Of course not Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #18

But, but Obama supports the TPP and Hillary doesn't, so what do I do? rhett o rick Jun 2016 #20

Good question Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #21

You can disagree with President Obama without pretending to yourself he's not a Democrat ConservativeDemocrat Jun 2016 #22

Good post. We're no longer bashing Democrats here, Hortensis Jun 2016 #42

What happens when Obama and Clinton disagree? Can either position be questioned? rhett o rick Jun 2016 #46

As I understand, Clinton's point of disagreement with POTUS is not about the TPP as a concept YoungDemCA Jun 2016 #61

She is very clear about her standards for free trade agreements... ConservativeDemocrat Jun 2016 #74

Fair point. InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2016 #85

Seems the implication is that President Barack Obama isn't a "real Democrat"? George II Jun 2016 #38

My comment was to the poster that seems to "imply" that we need to support the TPP just rhett o rick Jun 2016 #47

^^This^^ Pharaoh Jun 2016 #75

I don't support it now. If Hillary changes her mind after she's president, I'll support it then. DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2016 #78

So you disagree with Pres Obama? rhett o rick Jun 2016 #79

That's a tricky question. All I know is that I agree with Hillary. nt DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2016 #80

LOL JonLeibowitz Jun 2016 #81

^^ Double This ^^ chwaliszewski Jun 2016 #83

I don't think anyone on this forum knows enough about the details to make a definitive decision.... George II Jun 2016 #89

And why is that? Why isn't the President explaining how the TPP will help us? rhett o rick Jun 2016 #90

That's not the point - remember, the subject is: George II Jun 2016 #91

You want to argue about what is or isnt a true Democrat and not discuss the TPP? rhett o rick Jun 2016 #92

I'm not arguing it at all. I just think it's a narrow definition of a "real Democrat". George II Jun 2016 #93

I think the definition should include support of the People over corporations. rhett o rick Jun 2016 #94

This is a country of 320 million people, with dozens, hundreds, even thousands... George II Jun 2016 #95

And once again you don't commit yourself. I will guess that you don't care about the rhett o rick Jun 2016 #96

Do you support the TPP? rhett o rick Jun 2016 #77

And the Republicans in Congress support it more than the Dems. arcane1 Jun 2016 #31

Does it boil down to just those two options? Obama isn't a Democrat now? George II Jun 2016 #39

Yeah, I'm against it too cheapdate Jun 2016 #2

Withdraw from WTO and Repeal NAFTA, GATT, and CAFTA SouthernDemLinda Jun 2016 #7

This message was self-deleted by its author SouthernDemLinda Jun 2016 #8

http://www.petition2congress.com/2376/withdraw-from-wto-repeal-nafta-gatt-cafta SouthernDemLinda Jun 2016 #10

Post removed Post removed Jun 2016 #23

Apparently FDR did not agree with your analysis of the constitution. He proposed the ITO (with GATT pampango Jun 2016 #40

Congress, and only Congress has the power to negotiate trade with foreign countries SouthernDemLinda Jun 2016 #49

And if congress approves negotiated US membership in an international trade organization? Is that pampango Jun 2016 #50

"Congress has the authority to regulate cheapdate Jun 2016 #88

Yes, Hillary supported TPP before she changed her position. But, she's always been a Democrat in my mind. InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2016 #86

And no true Scotsman refused to wear a kilt! eom Maeve Jun 2016 #3

President Obama Urges Swift Passage of TPP Trade Deal oberliner Jun 2016 #4

We have to support deaniac21 Jun 2016 #6

We have to at least acknowledge that he is "a real Democrat" oberliner Jun 2016 #9

Isn't Hillary against the TPP? rhett o rick Jun 2016 #12

I don't know for sure Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #16

Yes oberliner Jun 2016 #17

She thinks Vietnam and Malaysia got off too easy, IIRC Recursion Jun 2016 #25

No she was for it Pharaoh Jun 2016 #27

Not accurate. She was the functionary of a boss who supported it. Her opinion didn't matter. MADem Jun 2016 #65

she was for it Pharaoh Jun 2016 #67

No, she wasn't. She declined to crap on her boss--there's a distinction and a difference. MADem Jun 2016 #72

whatever Pharaoh Jun 2016 #73

I agree in principle with that statement. No president makes everyone happy on every issue. floriduck Jun 2016 #63

I wish some Democratic Senator with a backbone would go on MtP and say the following: Chan790 Jun 2016 #5

Actually I don't believe Hillary would attempt to cancel the TPP Silver_Witch Jun 2016 #28

Yeah, we sure as hell won't win anything if TPP passes. PatrickforO Jun 2016 #30

There is really nothing we can do. The Major Corporations wrote it, so it will be golden. rhett o rick Jun 2016 #13

Post#19 believes that most Democrats support TPP avaistheone1 Jun 2016 #24

"If that is the case, it is certainly is a shameful time to be a Democrat." But not a pampango Jun 2016 #44

It's more popular among Democrats than Republicans, and a majority of Democrats support it Recursion Jun 2016 #19

Not in Congress n/t arcane1 Jun 2016 #51

That is certainly true. A disconnect between politicians and their bases - imagine that! pampango Jun 2016 #53

Says someone on the internet Egnever Jun 2016 #26

I agree. These 'free' trade agreements have not created jobs, PatrickforO Jun 2016 #29

So are you saying President Obama isn't a Democrat? still_one Jun 2016 #32

He's saying President Obama is not a "real Democrat" and is in Clear Violation of the NEW Cha Jun 2016 #34

That is how I am viewing it also. still_one Jun 2016 #35

agreed steve2470 Jun 2016 #58

Yes, seems intentionally substanceless Bradical79 Jun 2016 #59

There are always pros and cons to these trade agreements, the economic theorists seem to always The_Casual_Observer Jun 2016 #33

So how much longer until NAFTA pays off for U.S. workers? tk2kewl Jun 2016 #48

Perhaps you could enlighten those of us ... NanceGreggs Jun 2016 #36

Trying not to laugh here. sheshe2 Jun 2016 #37

I'll be watching and waiting for the poster to enlighten me, too, because from what I've already BlueCaliDem Jun 2016 #56

Candidate Obama: "NAFTA Was a Mistake" nationalize the fed Jun 2016 #41

I don't believe he said, "trade agreements are a mistake" but that "NAFTA was a mistake". pampango Jun 2016 #52

You're right. He also promised that he would fix the weak resolutions in prior trade agreements, and BlueCaliDem Jun 2016 #57

And TPP will replace NAFTA, and addressed some of his concerns Recursion Jun 2016 #84

A real Democrat would support the positive environmental and wage aspects of the TPP and work glennward Jun 2016 #43

We're not allowed zipplewrath Jun 2016 #66

Norman Goldman speaks of Cary Jun 2016 #45

it doesn't come close to ending American sovereignty and hello corporations have been firing workers geek tragedy Jun 2016 #54

Please inform me about what constitutes a "Real Democrat". Loki Jun 2016 #55

How are free trade agreements illegal by definition? Bradical79 Jun 2016 #60

Look up 'treaties' and how they apply to the US Constitution... TheProgressive Jun 2016 #68

You are quite correct. The thing is, some have 're-defined' the definition of Democrat. Octafish Jun 2016 #62

I don't like hearing people debate who are "real Democrats" or not. moriah Jun 2016 #64

The working class thinks the ones that would benefit from the TPP have enough already. Rex Jun 2016 #69

If the TPP won't harm the 99% why doesn't the President have someone explain it in detail rhett o rick Jun 2016 #70

Republicans Pre Reagan Wouldn't Either colsohlibgal Jun 2016 #71

Almost every country has wanted to be part of these same agreements since 1959. Hoyt Jun 2016 #76

The biggest downside to these trade agreements ... kentuck Jun 2016 #82

Very concerned about TPP ISDS court process Arizona Roadrunner Jun 2016 #87

A "real Democrat" is defined by one issue? JustABozoOnThisBus Jun 2016 #97

I am a lifelong Democrat and I support the TPP MohRokTah Jun 2016 #98