General Discussion

Straw Man

(6,936 posts)

10. There's no doubt about it.

Thu Jun 23, 2016, 12:27 AM

Jun 2016

so lets say you all are right...

whats the solution? What do we do to prevent another Orlando.

I think Western Civilization needs a restart. And I'm not kidding. Late-stage imperialistic capitalism in an age of globalization and dwindling resources is not a pretty thing. Things here are actually pretty tame compared to the Third World, but we will be seeing more and more of this as surely as the sun comes up in the morning. The whole contemporary ethos bring Yeats' "Second Coming" to mind:

The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Talking about "no fly, no buy" laws and assault weapons bans in this context is ... pick your cliché. Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic? Fixing your doorbell when your house is on fire? Thinking it's OK to keep a tiger as a pet as long as you keep its claws trimmed?

Pardon my cynicism, but I find that it highly ironic that I'm watching my representatives -- and yes, I'm a Democrat -- singing "We Shall Overcome" in support of a bill that will strip individuals of their rights without due process.

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So if you are wrongly put on a watch list, how do you get off it? [View all] davidn3600 Jun 2016 OP

Haven't you heard? Due process doesn't matter any more, and secret government lists are good. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #1

How can this be sarcasm, Lunabell Jun 2016 #44

The ACLU agrees: LongtimeAZDem Jun 2016 #2

so lets say you all are right... lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #3

Implement a system that safeguards due process LongtimeAZDem Jun 2016 #5

Same way you prevent the next tornado. JayhawkSD Jun 2016 #8

yea... more mass shootings because freedum. lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #11

Are you.... Corporate666 Jun 2016 #13

conflate away lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #14

So you're willing to let hundreds of thousands die Corporate666 Jun 2016 #17

Again, for the equivalency challenged lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #18

"You gun nutz will never ever understand logic" I understand situational ethics palmed off as logic friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #35

Fuck your "right" to own a gun... just fuck it. lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #41

Fuck all attempts to limit rights via demagoguery and misrepresentation friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #62

Now who is putting words into someones mouth lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #64

Well, Heller was upheld 8-0 in March. Here's the decision, it's not a long one: friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #66

I guess I can now run right out and buy my fully automatic machine gun lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #67

*Again* with the strawman arguments... friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #72

well said, plus renate Jun 2016 #42

So you have a "right" to get drunk, operate a motor vehicle, and kill people? oneshooter Jun 2016 #87

No, I can't force you to drink. JayhawkSD Jun 2016 #90

and deaths by guns lancer78 Jun 2016 #25

well alrighty then lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #28

You attribute a sentiment to your interlocutor they did not, in fact, express. friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #33

"the subject is guns and gun nuts... " Lonusca Jun 2016 #83

Well said. I've thought about the speed limit thing myself. Captain Stern Jun 2016 #82

my sister and brother-in-law lancer78 Jun 2016 #24

did they have a drivers license? lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #26

The drunk driver who killed my cousin sarisataka Jun 2016 #39

I'm so sorry about your cousin renate Jun 2016 #43

most likely we will solve the problem of drunk drivers lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #45

except for newtown lancer78 Jun 2016 #47

your are only thinking of mass shootings... lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #50

Most are suicides Duckhunter935 Jun 2016 #79

Thank you sarisataka Jun 2016 #57

no, he did not lancer78 Jun 2016 #46

and where was this? lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #48

this was 15 years ago in south dakota. lancer78 Jun 2016 #49

don't know the situation there lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #52

the big problem lancer78 Jun 2016 #51

paranoid kooks. lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #53

"paranoid"...for taking her at her word? Or you at *your* word, for that matter?: friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #63

the taliban are much better armed than your average gun nut lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #65

Start going after civilians with the military, and that will change in a hurry friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #68

ok, you can hack them lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #70

Y'see ... Straw Man Jun 2016 #69

The New Jersey legislation was a mistake lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #71

"What are they afraid of?" Ask the NRA, I'm not a member and thoroughly dislike them. friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #73

True. Straw Man Jun 2016 #78

And yet ... Straw Man Jun 2016 #56

Ok... you do realize that nothing is going to stop every act of lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #59

Here's the thing ... Straw Man Jun 2016 #61

but the only way to know that someone is a felon lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #75

No. Straw Man Jun 2016 #76

There's no doubt about it. Straw Man Jun 2016 #10

due process... lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #21

So ... Straw Man Jun 2016 #54

for people buying something that I don't think they should be allowed to have anyway lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #55

Please clarify. Straw Man Jun 2016 #58

A poorly thought out and unethical and illegal solution... TipTok Jun 2016 #12

and the panderers lancer78 Jun 2016 #27

Well, this wouldn't have prevented Orlando (he wasn't on the no-fly list) Recursion Jun 2016 #15

The purpose has little to do with preventing one mass shooting lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #16

but democrats f'ed up lancer78 Jun 2016 #29

gun nut t-baggers don't do so well lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #32

poor example lancer78 Jun 2016 #34

if I was a democrat running against a moderate repuke or a trump wannabe lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #36

depends on lancer78 Jun 2016 #38

Different Problems One_Life_To_Give Jun 2016 #80

That's incorrect in just about every way. A 'spree killer' is defined by multiple locations Bluenorthwest Jun 2016 #88

Excuse me Rampage Killer One_Life_To_Give Jun 2016 #94

The lists were Bush Co's idea sarisataka Jun 2016 #4

You call Obama. He's got this. bigwillq Jun 2016 #6

it is sad lancer78 Jun 2016 #30

I agree. I want gun control, but ignoring due process is not the way to go about it. uppityperson Jun 2016 #7

You don't even have to be on the list. JayhawkSD Jun 2016 #9

This ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ !!! SeattleVet Jun 2016 #20

For example, if your name was something relatively common, like Paul Ryan? nt Electric Monk Jun 2016 #19

Your ability to buy a gun would be delayed for a while lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #22

I wouldn't have a problem with that. I think, if you need to buy a gun in a hurry, you're probably Electric Monk Jun 2016 #23

or are on lancer78 Jun 2016 #31

Fedex will overnight it to you lapfog_1 Jun 2016 #77

The short answer is, you don't. HubertHeaver Jun 2016 #37

Add due process to the bill geomon666 Jun 2016 #40

3 business days lancer78 Jun 2016 #60

Peace out, this has been a lively discussion but now I need some shut-eye... friendly_iconoclast Jun 2016 #74

Here is info from the ACLU on how to appeal. pnwmom Jun 2016 #81

It may be thinking that is flawed, it may be political theater HereSince1628 Jun 2016 #84

Civil rights don't matter to Democrats when guns are involved Lurks Often Jun 2016 #85

Indeed - And this could easily be flipped on us. TampaAnimusVortex Jun 2016 #92

The legal precedent used to justify this could very well by applied elsewhere as well Lurks Often Jun 2016 #93

As long a WE control the list and how they get there all is well. ileus Jun 2016 #86

Death. Once the Security State has given you the Scarlet Letter you're fucked. Odin2005 Jun 2016 #89

Why do I see this backfiring for the donkey party? Jake Stern Jun 2016 #91