General Discussion

kcr

(15,522 posts)

96. Okay. This thread is about the law, however.

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 05:56 PM

Jun 2016

And who is more deserving of protection of the law. Children or parents. That's really what it boils down to. Spankers/beaters think parents have the right to do as they see fit. Others think children are human beings with their own individual rights, and have the right not to be spanked (if they're full on no spankers) or have limits, such as no belt beating.

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Woman Who Spanked Her Children With Belt After She Caught Them Stealing Gets Arrested And Sets Off.. [View all] Purveyor Jun 2016 OP

Leaving marks anoNY42 Jun 2016 #1

As bad as this sound, sometimes when spanking kids that old they don't sit stil and are "dancing" Seeinghope Jun 2016 #5

Destroying the family unit anoNY42 Jun 2016 #21

You apparently think everybody is a clone of you. Demit Jun 2016 #28

I'd inaccurately infer as much also to if it validated my biases. LanternWaste Jun 2016 #35

I was spanked and side 840high Jun 2016 #131

I'm right there with you-as a liberal. Thank you for your wisdom! cornball 24 Jun 2016 #23

Yeah, it's so hard to understand why people would harshly judge vicious beatings of children. kcr Jun 2016 #39

VICIOUS! First time I heard or read that cornball 24 Jun 2016 #53

Really!? kcr Jun 2016 #85

Perhaps you should be on the Trump Train cornball 24 Jun 2016 #115

I apologize kcr Jun 2016 #118

Vicious? I've seen cases of children beaten to death. This was perhaps abusive, but vicious? Shrike47 Jun 2016 #83

I'm glad I haven't been so hardened, then. kcr Jun 2016 #86

Vicious?? Good Lord, my parents would have been in jail then!!!! adigal Jun 2016 #89

Maybe they might have been!!! kcr Jun 2016 #93

That is just really offensive and asshole-ish to say adigal Jun 2016 #104

I don't know your parents kcr Jun 2016 #109

In my opinion, shoving your kids in front of a video while traveling with them adigal Jun 2016 #152

So, where do computers factor in? kcr Jun 2016 #156

My point is that using videos/TV to neglect your kids is damaging, too adigal Jun 2016 #160

How do people use videos and tv to neglect their children? kcr Jun 2016 #162

The kids are zoned out, mommy and daddy talk on their cell phones, there is no conversation adigal Jun 2016 #165

Well, I might have one and not know it. Seeing as I don't even know what you're talking about. kcr Jun 2016 #169

What kind of bias do you think a magazine called "The Scientific Parent" is going to have?? adigal Jun 2016 #172

What do you mean? What part of the name got your dander up? The Scientific or the Parent? kcr Jun 2016 #175

Evidence based? n/t Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #178

"None of us were scarred from a spanking." Who are you speaking for? Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #114

Jail for the kids is better. DCFS for the kids is better. Foster care is better. Kids having to Seeinghope Jun 2016 #151

Yes, this argument is not new. kcr Jun 2016 #153

Oh please this woman used the belt on three boys who were preteens and a teenager. My mother Seeinghope Jun 2016 #176

Holy fucking shit! Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #177

I don't care whether or not abuse "works", or if the victim turned out okay kcr Jun 2016 #181

Magic words "to me" and that is what it is..an opinion ....to you that the "newly evolved" have Seeinghope Jun 2016 #223

Yes, people decided to make it a crime. That's how it works. Laws don't spring up out of the ground kcr Jun 2016 #228

Computers that can rig elections. Mass media skilfully hand feeding chosen information for specific Seeinghope Jun 2016 #247

Yeah. How about parenting classes? TexasMommaWithAHat Jun 2016 #41

If she needs it, social services absolutely should be helping her, but kcr Jun 2016 #48

I used "social services" TexasMommaWithAHat Jun 2016 #58

Either way, my point remains. kcr Jun 2016 #62

spanking is not child abuse swhisper1 Jun 2016 #126

Okay. Very good. kcr Jun 2016 #127

Inflicting bodily harm does not rehabilitate anyone Tsiyu Jun 2016 #24

There's an age when spanking just won't work any more than punching their faces. Ilsa Jun 2016 #29

The family unit is not strengthened when parents beat their kids Warpy Jun 2016 #30

I grew up during a time when seat belts were as rare as drinking and driving laws. LanternWaste Jun 2016 #32

No one of any age sits still when they're being beaten. That's why that "sounds" "bad". kcr Jun 2016 #33

There is no, no, no good reason to whip or paddle children. Period. End of story. pnwmom Jun 2016 #44

Anyone who does that in front of me is going ot be in for a surprise anigbrowl Jun 2016 #74

I guess my old man should be in jail CanonRay Jun 2016 #52

Did your parents ever leave marks??? Mine did. So did my husband's parents. adigal Jun 2016 #87

if they hold the buckle, there will be no scarring, welts go away swhisper1 Jun 2016 #133

Wow, you are giving a how-to on how to abuse kids and not be caught, what the fuck? Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #136

it is not abuse. If I caught my kid stealing or with a gun, I would use a horsewhip swhisper1 Jun 2016 #139

Yeah, that's child abuse. n/t Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #143

you are entitled to your opinion, of course, no need to reply swhisper1 Jun 2016 #146

Of course there's a need to reply, you are advocating child abuse, what the fuck type of person... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #148

You can't make a general statement like "It doesn't work." adigal Jun 2016 #158

You were afraid of your mother hitting you? And you think that's normal? Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #166

It kept me out of jail, teen pregnancy, doing heroin or other bad drugs in the early and mid 70s adigal Jun 2016 #170

What about all those kids who were spanked/abused who did go through all those... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #174

Yep, and those posts are exactly why it has to be illegal. kcr Jun 2016 #147

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Jun 2016 #188

Physical "discipline" doesn't work, B.F. Skinner is not the end all, be all on this issue... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #190

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Jun 2016 #206

These kids were beaten with a belt, at best, the lesson taken away here is that they may... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #207

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Jun 2016 #216

Post removed Post removed Jun 2016 #218

ABA has a bad rap, but even with its roots in Skinnerism, it doesn't promote spanking. kcr Jun 2016 #193

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Jun 2016 #202

Evidence for your claims? n/t Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #204

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Jun 2016 #214

You do this a lot, you make unsupported claims, then fail to link to studies... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #217

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Jun 2016 #245

Well, I'm not a scientist. I don't test theories. kcr Jun 2016 #225

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Jun 2016 #246

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #211

Using any type of weapon, even the hand, I would argue is abusive... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #213

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #229

.that^ 840high Jun 2016 #134

Abuser rightly jailed and kids taken away from her, where's the controversy? Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #2

Spanking is for consenting adults Major Nikon Jun 2016 #3

Exactly. Not to mention the research on spanking seems to point to it being damaging... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #6

It's amazing at how many people are so heavily invested in the idea that beating children works Major Nikon Jun 2016 #61

No shit, its survivor bias run amok. n/t Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #71

It's amazing that on a Democratic website that many people are so heavily invested in the idea that FSogol Jun 2016 #98

Not necessarily scscholar Jun 2016 #13

The idea that adults can't consent to spanking each other is ridiculous Major Nikon Jun 2016 #18

To a point, yes. kcr Jun 2016 #34

Obviously it's not the same thing. Consenting adults is what makes it not the same thing. Major Nikon Jun 2016 #42

No kcr Jun 2016 #45

And yet consenting adults are beating each others asses all over the world even as we speak Major Nikon Jun 2016 #56

Yeah. People do illegal things all the time. kcr Jun 2016 #63

Sure, like consensual sodomy Major Nikon Jun 2016 #101

I'm not going to equate consensual sex with assault kcr Jun 2016 #106

"A person cannot consent to bodily harm. I don't know what is so hard about this" Major Nikon Jun 2016 #119

Every single one of those proves what I said. kcr Jun 2016 #123

Serious bodily harm doesn't come within a cab ride of proving what you said Major Nikon Jun 2016 #129

They ain't, huh? kcr Jun 2016 #138

"Serious bodily harm" is a universal legal standard Major Nikon Jun 2016 #203

So why are people arrested for domestic battery for giving a black eye? kcr Jun 2016 #208

So we went from an ass beating to a black eye Major Nikon Jun 2016 #215

Look, I'm not the one who compared child abuse to adult consensual sexual activity. kcr Jun 2016 #220

Thats true scsholar, it just happened sorefeet Jun 2016 #37

What would you suggest she do instead? Beaverhausen Jun 2016 #8

Not teach her kids that violence resolves problems, or is appropriate punishment for anyone? Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #15

So you cheer on her incarceration and removal of her kids. Frankly that's just as unempathetic KittyWampus Jun 2016 #59

Its obvious she and the children need, at the very least, counseling, but the children... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #64

To believe that this woman should be in jail and her kids in foster homes adigal Jun 2016 #95

Do you really think that compares with cheering on child abuse? Major Nikon Jun 2016 #69

loss of privileges, restitution, apologies to victims and police Ilsa Jun 2016 #31

What "privileges"!? uponit7771 Jun 2016 #75

Watching television. Ilsa Jun 2016 #105

Sounds like a good Mom. 840high Jun 2016 #135

Really, a woman raising three wanna be felons whose abuse doesn't seem to work? Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #141

You're not in her shoes. 840high Jun 2016 #184

So? Beating children is wrong, period. n/t Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #185

To equate spanking with abuse is just such hyperbole adigal Jun 2016 #91

Where is the line between spanking and abuse drawn, in your world? n/t Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #112

Hyperbole is equating a pat on the ass to a severe beating Major Nikon Jun 2016 #124

So if a parent spanks a child on the behind, once, and it leaves a red mark adigal Jun 2016 #154

I suggest you read the OP more closely Major Nikon Jun 2016 #210

You've lost all credibility comparing raping a child with hitting them with a belt adigal Jun 2016 #239

I feel the same way about dichotomous thinkers Major Nikon Jun 2016 #240

Hope she gets serious jail time and the kids find decent foster care. InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2016 #113

Honestly, its only taken this long to find out this is how she treats her children... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #116

I'm glad my family was never 840high Jun 2016 #137

Child-abusing POS, lock her up. Odin2005 Jun 2016 #4

Right, putting her kids into a totally f***ed up system is much better. Seeinghope Jun 2016 #7

Sure, and people used to think an occasional wife beating was no big deal either Major Nikon Jun 2016 #16

If she gets the kids back yeoman6987 Jun 2016 #22

Nothing stops any teenager from doing this Major Nikon Jun 2016 #46

Yep and when they are involved in some other, possibly more serious crime, they will blame her for puffy socks Jun 2016 #47

I agree yeoman6987 Jun 2016 #50

Parents don't spank anymore, but think it's fine to shove an ipad in front of their 2 year old adigal Jun 2016 #97

I totally agree. We were taught to behave while in a car. We sat at the dinner table and talked as Seeinghope Jun 2016 #167

Instead of locking her up and putting the kids in foster care with strangers, how about Arkansas Granny Jun 2016 #10

Bingo Hekate Jun 2016 #11

That only works if the mom is remorseful and willing to change. Odin2005 Jun 2016 #12

But if we do that, then how will we feel righteous and superior? Orrex Jun 2016 #17

Sometimes adults need a time out Major Nikon Jun 2016 #20

Most sensible post on this thread yet! smirkymonkey Jun 2016 #67

Naw... naw... its a lot better to punish them so people on line feel good and shit /sarcasm uponit7771 Jun 2016 #79

Using a belt is not spanking: it's beating the kids. That is child abuse. mnhtnbb Jun 2016 #9

My mom grounding me from my Nintendo worked far better than spanking ever did. Odin2005 Jun 2016 #14

This then 13 year shot and killed his mother becasue she took away his game Kaleva Jun 2016 #26

She should have shot him first. Ilsa Jun 2016 #36

lol... you crazy, jail the woman for whooping her kids but do shoot them if they get a gun... uponit7771 Jun 2016 #81

The whole idea that she let a 13yo have Ilsa Jun 2016 #107

Are you implying spanking would have prevented this kid becoming a violent monster? Odin2005 Jun 2016 #49

No. Am saying that every kid is different. Kaleva Jun 2016 #60

Was your mom a working, single mother with 5 other kids? Beaverhausen Jun 2016 #57

Does that excuse what she did? n/t Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #68

I just asked you a question. Beaverhausen Jun 2016 #72

I'm not the one you asked. n/t Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #73

Whatever Beaverhausen Jun 2016 #76

Single working mom with 2 kids. Odin2005 Jun 2016 #219

Single working mother of 4 here. That's no excuse. laundry_queen Jun 2016 #237

WOW... you had a nintendo!? we had dirt... and we didn't even like it !!! uponit7771 Jun 2016 #80

Correct, those kids were not spanked, they were beaten. ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #117

There's also similarities Major Nikon Jun 2016 #242

Opinions vary. ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #248

Empirical studies do not Major Nikon Jun 2016 #249

My reading does suggest they also vary. ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #250

You can say the same thing about global warming denial Major Nikon Jun 2016 #251

hitting kids with a belt makes them MORE likely to be criminals rollin74 Jun 2016 #19

Getting whipped with a belt, shaving strap, switch, board, broom, etc., Kaleva Jun 2016 #27

I wonder how many grew up to have problems with logic n/t kcr Jun 2016 #40

our mothers drank and smoked while pregnant and we turned out just fine treestar Jun 2016 #54

Seems that people today have more stressers in their lives then before. Kaleva Jun 2016 #65

Seriously?? You think getting hit with a belt a few times causes addiction?? adigal Jun 2016 #100

Being hit with a belt is abuse. I can't believe I have to state this on a so called... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #110

It wasn't abuse for many, many years. And I think videos in cars is abuse. adigal Jun 2016 #149

Whether people substitute technology for parenting, that's no comparison to physical abuse. Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #159

Bullshit. Check out the brain studies. Exposure to technology can do permanent damage to a child's adigal Jun 2016 #161

Uhm, there are quite a few studies showing that child abuse, including spanking... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #164

Here you go - found this one in about 2 seconds adigal Jun 2016 #168

If you'd taken more than two seconds, you'd have seen that's outdated. kcr Jun 2016 #173

I didn't say it causes it, I just said it could be harmful treestar Jun 2016 #155

better to get disciplined by their mother RegexReader Jun 2016 #43

Who says the discipline from the mother would be effective? n/t Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #171

The lady in Baltimore deaniac21 Jun 2016 #25

I got the belt as a kid in the 60's Ligyron Jun 2016 #38

This message was self-deleted by its author Mosby Jun 2016 #51

So, white people can be arrested for beating their children, then? kcr Jun 2016 #66

This message was self-deleted by its author Mosby Jun 2016 #88

No. I'm asking you. kcr Jun 2016 #90

This message was self-deleted by its author Mosby Jun 2016 #92

Okay. This thread is about the law, however. kcr Jun 2016 #96

This message was self-deleted by its author Mosby Jun 2016 #99

"Your Honor. When my son is 10. When he screws up, I will whip his ass ..." 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #55

Considering that there is little to no evidence that corporal punishment either improves behavior... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #78

As I stated, people with different historical experience, mayl feel differently ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #84

And let's be honest liberals here, if your kids acted up they would suffer far worse consequences adigal Jun 2016 #102

Thank you ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #120

I'm sorry that's bullshit, "cultural differences" should NOT be used as cover for abuse... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #125

Its not a question of history, it doesn't matter the color of the victim... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #108

First, there is a difference between being "abused" and "spanked/"whipped" ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #121

Really? What's the difference? Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #122

If you have to ask, I can't tell you ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #130

I'm sorry, did you not admit that you would and have "whipped the ass" of a 10 year old? Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #132

Correlation does not imply causation Major Nikon Jun 2016 #230

JUST IN: Louisiana Officials Praise Mother Arrested For Whipping Sons Purveyor Jun 2016 #70

Ugh, this just demonstrates how fucked up this country is in so many different ways.... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #77

Good. 840high Jun 2016 #142

Didn't Ted Cruz openly admit to spanking his kids? ecstatic Jun 2016 #82

To be honest, yes, and Romney should have been arrested for animal abuse, do you have... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #180

The three boys are out of control because they lack a father. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #94

I grew up with just a mother because my father was sadistic asshole and wife abuser. Agnosticsherbet Jun 2016 #103

I would say its likely they lacked structure and/or attention, doesn't have... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #111

They are doing well in school. I think 840high Jun 2016 #144

Someone who used a fucking belt on their kids is, by definition, not a good Mom. Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #145

She is a good Mom - does 840high Jun 2016 #182

You are excusing child abuse, and likely that is what is going to lead to them going to... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #187

Oh, it might also be because their mother resorts to spankings as a form of discipline. n/t Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #128

You'll get flack for saying that from some, but I agree. romanic Jun 2016 #140

I think that's bullshit, I had a friend growing up who became a well adjusted man... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #150

I said "good" father figure. romanic Jun 2016 #231

There are a lot of boys without fathers who do not end up committing crimes. treestar Jun 2016 #157

Those without fathers are more likely to grow up to be criminals. nt lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #192

Is it lack of fathers or lack of stability and parental investment in child development? Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #197

. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #234

The abuse piece is also associated with negative outcomes Major Nikon Jun 2016 #241

. LeftyMom Jun 2016 #191

A white woman, especially if pretty, wouldn't have been arrested for this adigal Jun 2016 #163

I like how there's an outpouring of support for an abuser, but not the abused... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #179

Many people don't see her as an abuser adigal Jun 2016 #238

Crap. 840high Jun 2016 #183

I would have gotten spanked for stealing when I was a kid... RazBerryBeret Jun 2016 #186

Goddamn, I just can't imagine my dad doing that, that's fucked up... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #189

now, it does seem fucked up... RazBerryBeret Jun 2016 #196

The evidence suggests that you were lucky to not develop problems... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #198

whew... RazBerryBeret Jun 2016 #200

Making it an OP, a lot of people are under the impression that spanking does some good... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #201

Whatever....I got my ass whooped as a child UMTerp01 Jun 2016 #194

But the people who turned out great without beatings kcr Jun 2016 #195

You sound like an abuse victim trying to justify what was done to them, and I'm sorry for you... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #199

I sound like a child who got consequences for making bad choices.... UMTerp01 Jun 2016 #244

Jailing the Mother and Taking away the Children LarryNM Jun 2016 #205

Every kid is different.... TomJulie Jun 2016 #209

So you deserved the abuse? Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #212

I find your racing up and down this thread demanding people who see things differently than you do Number23 Jun 2016 #221

I'll be honest and say I'm appalled, absolutely, by some of the stories I read here on this thread.. Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #222

That does seem extreme and it's okay to be appalled. Be as appalled as you want Number23 Jun 2016 #224

.that^ 840high Jun 2016 #232

Many years ago... TomJulie Jun 2016 #236

damned if they do and damned if they don't DustyJoe Jun 2016 #226

Hardly Major Nikon Jun 2016 #233

Another DU thread this evening says 50 years of research shows all "spanking" is harmful. merrily Jun 2016 #227

So a practical better way would be to do what? uponit7771 Jun 2016 #235

Following the advice of virtually every well respected expert on the subject Major Nikon Jun 2016 #243