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laundry_queen

(8,646 posts)

16. The thing is

Fri Jun 24, 2016, 11:55 PM

Jun 2016

we can't know what harm may have been done to an individual. "I'm fine" means many different things to different people. "Fine" to one person might be another's "WTF is wrong with you"

Just think - a sensitive child who may have been a leading scientist or a best-selling author instead ends up as an office clerk due to lack of assertiveness and no real self-worth. They are still 'fine' but what have they - what has the world - missed out on? Does that person even realize it if they believe they had loving parents? Who measures how much they lack in assertiveness due to spanking? How much self worth was taken away? Can we know, for each individual? No, we cannot. Hence why these studies require many children and studies in aggregate...and they show a trend. And that trend says spanking is always harmful.

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Risks of Harm from Spanking Confirmed by Analysis of Five Decades of Research [View all] Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 OP

not really, discipline is personal preference and alot of huffy arguing not worth my time swhisper1 Jun 2016 #1

How is it personal preference when harm is demonstrated? n/t Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #3

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Jun 2016 #14

Not just risk of harm but counterproductive Major Nikon Jun 2016 #15

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Jun 2016 #38

The evidence suggests that it would be counterproductive, are you saying its actually effective.... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #50

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Jun 2016 #87

True, but why risk it at all, particularly since its counterproductive... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #90

This is just bizarre Major Nikon Jun 2016 #53

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Jun 2016 #88

The OP article is not about discipline but about harming children. merrily Jun 2016 #7

That's like saying molesting your little daughter is just personal preference. jtuck004 Jun 2016 #18

+1, and the lack of empathy or even progressive solutions to a child who's threatening and defiant uponit7771 Jun 2016 #23

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #26

Spanking = beating?!?! I agree with the poster, there's much huffing about uponit7771 Jun 2016 #27

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #28

I agree, hitting anyone TO cause pain isnt productive.. spanking a child with the intentions and the uponit7771 Jun 2016 #31

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #34

Ah, didn't read the non-consensual so no... its not ok to hit anyone and we agree that one size does uponit7771 Jun 2016 #37

So basically you are disregarding the study because it contradicts your preconceived notions... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #51

No, I'm not disregarding the data at all Just HOF hyperbole and my way great your way sucks mentali uponit7771 Jun 2016 #69

You are exactly correct. Android3.14 Jun 2016 #52

RIGHT!! And SOMETIMES... there needs to be an instant negative reaction and it doesn't have uponit7771 Jun 2016 #70

No, it obviously IS about one person controlling another muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #113

Some advice. Android3.14 Jun 2016 #119

Bringing up a child is not a 'business', it's a responsibility muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #120

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #54

A parent that needs to. Also teenager that is 14 and 6'2 and 200 lbs isn't a man at all... uponit7771 Jun 2016 #71

Who the fuck spanks teenagers at all? That's definitely not normal. n/t Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #77

Again, a parent that needs to... what is your perspective of what a spanking is? tia uponit7771 Jun 2016 #81

No, even if I conceded that spanking is something parents should be allowed to do, if they are... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #82

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #85

I know, I couldn't even fathom trying to get a teenager to cooperate with a spanking... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #89

See...this is exactly what I mean right here...perfect example uponit7771 Jun 2016 #93

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #94

Not in front of the cops it's not, they'll oversee and make sure its not taking uponit7771 Jun 2016 #95

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #84

So you think you would get away with hitting your mother back in most uponit7771 Jun 2016 #96

You know, when you have to lie to defend your argument, you lost that argument. Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #103

Could you link and quote were they did outline an escalated progressive action process then... uponit7771 Jun 2016 #107

Its behind a paywall, if you want to pay the 12 bucks, read it yourself, otherwise stop... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #115

Holy crap R.A. Ganoush Jun 2016 #35

Correlation does not always equal causation Drahthaardogs Jun 2016 #41

Then why post in this thread. Duppers Jun 2016 #104

I don't want to encourage judgmental discussion swhisper1 Jun 2016 #105

This whole forum is about Duppers Jun 2016 #106

I guess I'm the exception that proves the rule. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2016 #2

When did your parents ... GeorgeGist Jun 2016 #4

My DAD spanked me about 8 times in my life. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2016 #11

After they had spanked me approximately eight times. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2016 #33

Precisely, don't let survivor bias cloud your thinking, the outcomes of the majority matter... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #9

The thing is laundry_queen Jun 2016 #16

Important point made in this article laundry_queen Jun 2016 #5

Yeah, its a difference in intensity, rather than one of kind. n/t Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #8

My father in law believes an adult spanking a small child IS physical abuse and he convinced me. merrily Jun 2016 #10

Your father in law is correct Brainstormy Jun 2016 #12

Thanks to my father in law, you are preaching to the choir. merrily Jun 2016 #13

That is great laundry_queen Jun 2016 #17

You may be able to raise a child less than optimally by indulging every whim instantly. merrily Jun 2016 #19

Interesting study laundry_queen Jun 2016 #20

Thank you. I am glad you went to all that trouble. merrily Jun 2016 #21

wait, so letting a kid 'run wild' as in physically abuse people and their parents, destroy property uponit7771 Jun 2016 #29

If 'giving boundaries' meant spanking, then yes. nt laundry_queen Jun 2016 #63

No, spanking is part of the corrective action process that could be used but usually is the last... uponit7771 Jun 2016 #72

It's not corrective action, it's abuse laundry_queen Jun 2016 #97

"by then it may be too late for a parent who caused the problem to rein it in" giving up on a kid is uponit7771 Jun 2016 #109

Reading comprehension helps laundry_queen Jun 2016 #111

I had the feral upbringing, my parents having too many kids, too fast. hunter Jun 2016 #40

I agree. laundry_queen Jun 2016 #67

So is enforcing the idea that there is little consequence to stepping out of bounds which in some... uponit7771 Jun 2016 #73

"You broke it, you fix it" is a much tougher expectation than "you might get punished." hunter Jun 2016 #91

Ok...so there is consequences enforced and I agree 100%.. uponit7771 Jun 2016 #92

Paying attention and not being messy... that wasn't on my parent's radar. hunter Jun 2016 #99

Not given a relatively instant negative reaction to detrimental behavior is more abusive than doing uponit7771 Jun 2016 #24

You present the choices as A. Hit your kid, or B. Do nothing at all. Bluenorthwest Jun 2016 #100

I was responding to a post, that's not my position at all uponit7771 Jun 2016 #108

False dilemma. It is not a choice between spanking and doing nothing. merrily Jun 2016 #118

I was spanked more often by teachers than parents. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #42

FIVE DECADES of research? How many decades of research with no legislative action would it have merrily Jun 2016 #6

If I am reading the article correctly, it is a study of other studies. ManiacJoe Jun 2016 #74

Right wryter2000 Jun 2016 #78

It's was an analysis of 50 years of original research. I'm not getting your point. merrily Jun 2016 #116

Thank you for posting this. This validates my every-day actions while phylny Jun 2016 #22

sophistry, "specific to the effects of spanking ALONE" they did no study on escalated corrective.. uponit7771 Jun 2016 #25

Why do you claim they didn't study "escalated corrective action"? Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #48

No, you've misread that. "Alone" IS opposed to "other types of physical punishment" muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #114

Your confusing spanking with physical abuse.... dubyadiprecession Jun 2016 #30

+1, and the study said this ..."specific to the effects of spanking ALONE"... well yeah.... uponit7771 Jun 2016 #32

Mentally tougher? I'm sorry that's just not true... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #47

They isolated for that if you would read the article and paper... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #45

Yes of course because they said ..."SPANKING ALONE" which is at the least confusing cause of uponit7771 Jun 2016 #75

I like how you take two words out of context and add your own definition to it... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #76

That's their words, not mine... also in the study they don't say whether or not there was any other uponit7771 Jun 2016 #80

Its a meta-analysis of other studies where they try to isolate the variables, what they found is... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #83

K & R! HuckleB Jun 2016 #36

The harm in fatherlessness is at least as compelling lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #39

Unless the father is a bad influence loyalsister Jun 2016 #43

There are undoubtedly exceptions to the prohibition on spanking too. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #44

I would have been quite happy without mine loyalsister Jun 2016 #46

The studies are repeatable and well documented. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #56

Again loyalsister Jun 2016 #57

And yet, the social impact of excluding these "bad" fathers from households lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #59

So, women whose abusive, drug addict husbands loyalsister Jun 2016 #60

Maybe they wouldn't be abusive drug-addict husbands if they had fathers. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #61

Or maybe they learned that behavior from loyalsister Jun 2016 #64

The fatherless kids that are nearly 300% more likely to carry a gun didn't learn that from dad. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #66

And yet loyalsister Jun 2016 #68

Someone should tell those "dads" who absent themselves from their families REP Jun 2016 #62

And you obviously consider yourself exceptional in that regard. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2016 #65

Not sure how that is even relevant to the thread, many times the status of single parenthood... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #49

+1 nt laundry_queen Jun 2016 #98

for one thing, it teaches a child that it is okay for someone bigger to physically assault someone niyad Jun 2016 #55

A lot of republican self servicing people were probably spanked kimbutgar Jun 2016 #58

We've never spanked our kids Warren DeMontague Jun 2016 #79

This isn't at all surprising Juan_George09 Jun 2016 #86

If you want your kids to despise you, hit them. They will wish you were dead. Skeeter Barnes Jun 2016 #101

This is false on its face, my parents generation as an example... which these studies don't address uponit7771 Jun 2016 #110

I guess today's kids are just too mentally weak to not be able to stand a spanking or two... Humanist_Activist Jun 2016 #117

Yep laundry_queen Jun 2016 #112

Very sorry you went through that but appreciate you sharing your story. Skeeter Barnes Jun 2016 #121

K&R DesertRat Jun 2016 #102