General Discussion

drray23

(8,568 posts)

95. A few ?? Are you european or British ?

Sat Jun 25, 2016, 05:39 PM

Jun 2016

I was born in France, I am a dual citizen (american-french) and now live in the US. I have observed the same phenomenon in France over the past decade or so. The rise of the right wing. In France, its the le pen 's (was jean-marie, now his daughter marine).
It has slowly seeped into the society. Even some of my own family members have disgusting xenophobic rants on facebook.
I have zero doubts that what auntpurl is saying is correct. I have visited the UK more than once, have friends living there and am following the politics by reading their newspapers online quite often.

This brexit was fueled by Xenophobia. Farage UKIP's party and Johnson (mainly Farage) have managed to blame the economic woes on immigrants and it worked.

The consequences of the brexit will be huge. One simple example that I know very well:

The UK is a member state of the CERN (the research center in france/switzerland). As such, they contribute to its budget. In return they carry out experiments and have scientists posted there. A full 25 % of the entire physics research budget in the UK comes from EU subsidies to the UK research. They can now kiss goodbye to this. There are also significant EU contributions for young british researchers (postdoctoral positions and such) which are going to disappear. The day after the election, I got a phone call from one of my former student, now a postdoc at cambridge asking me if I had a position back in the US for him..

Here is an article in Physics today which summarizes that situation:

http://scitation.aip.org/content/aip/magazine/physicstoday/news/10.1063/PT.5.1078;jsessionid=F5P-iZfDsLZgJcXL0YfndD67.x-aip-live-02

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ONE LAST TIME: Brexit, for the VAST MAJORITY of Leave voters, was about xenophobia [View all] auntpurl Jun 2016 OP

Not much doubt in my mind. There are plenty of folks like that in USA. Hoyt Jun 2016 #1

Plenty of folks like that in every country on Earth. n/t cigsandcoffee Jun 2016 #5

And this is why we don't put complicated economic policy up for a general population referendum auntpurl Jun 2016 #10

Your post doesn't prove your point. I see four nutter Brits with a banner and cherry-picked images. leveymg Jun 2016 #70

Ok. auntpurl Jun 2016 #74

If you want to get really granular, FDI from the EU did not stop the loss of real income leveymg Jun 2016 #79

+100 AntiBank Jun 2016 #93

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #174

What?????!!!! Are you serious????!!!!! nt clarice Jun 2016 #200

...about? auntpurl Jun 2016 #201

That issues of this sort involving National issues should not be left up to the electorate??? nt clarice Jun 2016 #203

Uh, no, I'm not kidding. auntpurl Jun 2016 #207

ummmm. So If this issue is "beyond the scope" of the average British voter... clarice Jun 2016 #210

Most millenials voted against it. The angry old people voted in favor. MADem Jun 2016 #2

There was a very clear correlation with education level as well nt auntpurl Jun 2016 #53

Yes, indeed. MADem Jun 2016 #141

How elitist is that???? I'm glad that I don't live in your world... shameful.nt clarice Jun 2016 #206

Unfortunately the young voters didn't come out kiva Jun 2016 #139

I think that no one actually thought this thing would pass. MADem Jun 2016 #140

On Twitter last night: "Boris Johnson sacrificed a million jobs to get one". nt auntpurl Jun 2016 #164

That's it, in a nutshell. nt MADem Jun 2016 #217

With all respect "Angry Old people".....really? nt clarice Jun 2016 #204

Yes, really--read the coverage, that IS how the vote broke down. MADem Jun 2016 #216

This just blows my mind: sufrommich Jun 2016 #3

Charming, isn't it. auntpurl Jun 2016 #59

Then, he has no one to blame... ReRe Jun 2016 #86

Here's the link, just in case anyone wanted to see it. auntpurl Jun 2016 #172

Thanks, auntpurl ReRe Jun 2016 #173

He was on the REMAIN crew, too...! MADem Jun 2016 #219

Seems to me that one could appear to prove almost anything by merely presenting anecdotes. jonno99 Jun 2016 #4

I don't have to prove anything to you. auntpurl Jun 2016 #7

That doesn't really address the substance of the point made. JonLeibowitz Jun 2016 #11

Oh, sorry, did you not think my answer was substantive enough? auntpurl Jun 2016 #16

I'm simply commenting on your lack of refutation. My feelings don't enter into the matter JonLeibowitz Jun 2016 #18

And here you are, still commenting. auntpurl Jun 2016 #20

So hostile melman Jun 2016 #31

Do you think so? auntpurl Jun 2016 #37

Without a doubt. DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2016 #138

Yes. 840high Jun 2016 #108

Hostile and condescending. n/t cherokeeprogressive Jun 2016 #132

I know. How dare someone living in the UK tell Americans what the campaign was about! Violet_Crumble Jun 2016 #150

Thank you. auntpurl Jun 2016 #154

+ 100000000 TubbersUK Jun 2016 #177

Yeah. We need to learn our place. Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #180

I wish I could rec a post NastyRiffraff Jun 2016 #209

+1000 n/t JustAnotherGen Jun 2016 #227

Please stop refuting the "Pitchfork and Torches brigade" theories..facts and realities upset them.nt pkdu Jun 2016 #153

Yet 52% of the UK disagrees with you. modem77 Jun 2016 #233

Well said. There were many reasons, and that was certainly one of them, but it was far from the main OnDoutside Jun 2016 #8

I LIVE here. Why would you think I was making this up? auntpurl Jun 2016 #14

Post removed Post removed Jun 2016 #25

Refugees do not get jobs or housing ahead of British citizens auntpurl Jun 2016 #28

probably, but it is human nature, and some are more radical than others swhisper1 Jun 2016 #32

See OP. auntpurl Jun 2016 #39

From the Guardian Jim Beard Jun 2016 #131

And? auntpurl Jun 2016 #152

The point Jim Beard Jun 2016 #247

Sorry, I totally disagree. Hoyt Jun 2016 #38

So how do you feel about undocumented workers in the US, (economic refugees) or Agnosticsherbet Jun 2016 #72

if they entered legally, its fine swhisper1 Jun 2016 #88

+10 840high Jun 2016 #109

No, I'm sure that's happening but I wouldn't tar all English people with that brush, just as I OnDoutside Jun 2016 #107

I have friends in London 840high Jun 2016 #110

Yes, I was really surprised with my friends as they were both well educated and well travelled OnDoutside Jun 2016 #115

no, I think you really believe it, but it rings hollow to us,brexit isnt a one issue conflict larkrake Jun 2016 #170

agreed swhisper1 Jun 2016 #23

I've lived here 25 years PaulaFarrell Jun 2016 #230

Maybe it's just you ? ;) OnDoutside Jun 2016 #238

no they like me PaulaFarrell Jun 2016 #239

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #6

More innuendo about the American left. Sigh. JonLeibowitz Jun 2016 #13

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #15

Oh, isn't it? I am more than convinced. The poster stated fact, not innuendo. auntpurl Jun 2016 #17

The post was deliciously fact-free. JonLeibowitz Jun 2016 #19

You are wasting your time. auntpurl Jun 2016 #21

cherry picked photos do not reflect the feelings of the majority swhisper1 Jun 2016 #27

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #43

Ha ha, you replied to me. We're on the same side. :) auntpurl Jun 2016 #44

This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #66

In all seriousness auntpurl Jun 2016 #67

It is so discouraging mcar Jun 2016 #123

It is unbelievable! NastyRiffraff Jun 2016 #211

A weird thing is happening on the far left, I fear. MADem Jun 2016 #220

The far right has "they terk er jerbs" NuclearDem Jun 2016 #47

it is very old swhisper1 Jun 2016 #33

You're right, it's tired and was never very convincing. Marr Jun 2016 #50

+:10 n/t whathehell Jun 2016 #128

Nah, more like the left is against free trade because many of them are economically illiterate YoungDemCA Jun 2016 #143

It's built right into our system and displayed everyday. nt fleabiscuit Jun 2016 #122

Exactly. Hoyt Jun 2016 #40

k and r niyad Jun 2016 #9

Massive K & R. Thanks for posting. So spot on. Surya Gayatri Jun 2016 #12

Xenophobia and racism are the dark side of populism. Straw Man Jun 2016 #22

Good post. YoungDemCA Jun 2016 #146

Thank you. nt Straw Man Jun 2016 #149

True. And the U.K. has much less immigration than Ireland which is content with EU pampango Jun 2016 #24

David Cameron is an idiot, this should have never left committee. Rex Jun 2016 #26

He had to. auntpurl Jun 2016 #30

I am sorry you have-had a Trump like idiot as PM. Rex Jun 2016 #35

He's not Trump-like auntpurl Jun 2016 #41

Hoisted by his own petard. Rex Jun 2016 #49

It would be brilliant if we had an opposition party to speak of auntpurl Jun 2016 #52

That shocks me, I've always thought of British Parliament as having better common sense Rex Jun 2016 #56

I have to say, from a distance, mind you, I've been less than impressed with him. MADem Jun 2016 #222

Post removed Post removed Jun 2016 #36

You're just shitposting now. NuclearDem Jun 2016 #42

Yes. So tiresome. auntpurl Jun 2016 #46

Thanks, I appreciate it. JonLeibowitz Jun 2016 #48

I think it's too soon to say Cameron will be the most disgraced politician in UK history Sen. Walter Sobchak Jun 2016 #98

Ah. Yes. Well played. auntpurl Jun 2016 #99

When Boris is done he is probably going to end up in exile Sen. Walter Sobchak Jun 2016 #100

At this rate he'll be seen as the PM who destroyed the UK. Odin2005 Jun 2016 #129

I don't doubt this for a minute. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2016 #29

Because as a member of the EU, we are required to take a certain number of migrants. auntpurl Jun 2016 #34

Thanks. So they really were fearmongering, then. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2016 #51

Oh yes. auntpurl Jun 2016 #55

That is far too simplistic an answer alarimer Jun 2016 #103

Thatcherism and the austerity measures of Britain and other EU countries The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2016 #104

Thank you +100 840high Jun 2016 #111

So you're saying they never had to compete with people who weren't like them before. nt fleabiscuit Jun 2016 #125

Well, at least here in the US, there was a concerted effort to pit people against one another alarimer Jun 2016 #213

thank you for reason, there is a hysteria trumpeted by corporate news larkrake Jun 2016 #171

Gladly recommended. guillaumeb Jun 2016 #45

Let us now take a moment to appreciate representative government auntpurl Jun 2016 #57

Agreed. guillaumeb Jun 2016 #60

You got me there. auntpurl Jun 2016 #61

Non sequitur. They are still responsible for voting. And they face reelection. eom fleabiscuit Jun 2016 #126

I wouldn't worry too much, auntpurl. roamer65 Jun 2016 #54

I do hope you are right. auntpurl Jun 2016 #58

In a few months with the next Greek bailout and European banking crisis... roamer65 Jun 2016 #68

Nope, it wasnt. The fact that a few xenophobic yahoos exists does not jack_krass Jun 2016 #62

Oh, a few? auntpurl Jun 2016 #64

No, but I travel there frequently, and have daily contact with many people there. I dont doubt jack_krass Jun 2016 #120

There are English people ON THIS VERY THREAD telling you you're wrong. auntpurl Jun 2016 #151

Look, I dont doubt that the UK ultra right has attached itself to the "leave" movement. jack_krass Jun 2016 #178

Okey doke! nt auntpurl Jun 2016 #179

A few ?? Are you european or British ? drray23 Jun 2016 #95

Medical research will be hard hit as well auntpurl Jun 2016 #101

So we're against democracy now? runaway hero Jun 2016 #63

Are we against putting complicated economic policy up for a general population referendum? auntpurl Jun 2016 #65

This is extremly unfair runaway hero Jun 2016 #69

It is unfair CountAllVotes Jun 2016 #71

The achievement gap is getting too big. runaway hero Jun 2016 #78

No, I'm talking about uneducated people (that is based on polling, not my opinion) auntpurl Jun 2016 #73

Of course they were runaway hero Jun 2016 #77

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #175

Oh good, you're back. auntpurl Jun 2016 #176

I think we need to set up a DU Group for all the Name Removeds Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #184

Such a shame; they probably had invaluable words of wisdom auntpurl Jun 2016 #186

They were FUCKING LIED TO Stinky The Clown Jun 2016 #75

ALL POLITICIANS LIE!!! davidn3600 Jun 2016 #76

Serious question: Do YOU know what the lie was that was admitted to the morning after the vote? Stinky The Clown Jun 2016 #97

If "democracy" equals racist bullshit convincing the public to vote against their own interests YoungDemCA Jun 2016 #144

That's too bad then runaway hero Jun 2016 #182

LOL! Is the Third Way international now?? I guess we should have known, considering that they are Number23 Jun 2016 #225

I gues you're going to tell me runaway hero Jun 2016 #236

Every bit as reasonable and informed as your post screaming about the Third Way as if it has Number23 Jun 2016 #242

really? runaway hero Jun 2016 #243

This was absolutely about youceyec Jun 2016 #80

Probably. And in the meantime auntpurl Jun 2016 #82

It has started, Hate Crimes Spike youceyec Jun 2016 #240

High levels of immigration equal political instability perdita9 Jun 2016 #81

Oh, rubbish. auntpurl Jun 2016 #84

You think pro Nazi hate groups are rising for no reason? perdita9 Jun 2016 #112

Again, rubbish auntpurl Jun 2016 #160

There doesn't seem to be any correlation TubbersUK Jun 2016 #105

There is a correlation, just a negative correlation. auntpurl Jun 2016 #166

Ah, yes. Makes for an even stronger rebuttal - Thnx n/t TubbersUK Jun 2016 #167

Agreed. 840high Jun 2016 #114

I approve of your statements! Jim Beard Jun 2016 #142

Thanks for introducing the same talking points that were pioneered by white supremacist groups YoungDemCA Jun 2016 #147

Really. auntpurl Jun 2016 #158

I didn't understand any of it until marlakay Jun 2016 #83

Absolute lies from beginning to end. auntpurl Jun 2016 #85

Oliver's Brexit episode was fucking brilliant! Native Jun 2016 #197

Absolutely! ananda Jun 2016 #87

This message was self-deleted by its author AntiBank Jun 2016 #89

to the degree it was about anti-Muslim xenophobia, you would think EU nations... yurbud Jun 2016 #90

As an ashamed English expat living in Colorado... Gumboot Jun 2016 #91

I'm so sorry. auntpurl Jun 2016 #94

I was in the same boat. Never been more ashamed of my home country. truebrit71 Jun 2016 #116

K&R nt ProudProgressiveNow Jun 2016 #92

The Brexit fools think "V for Vendetta" was a training manual. Efilroft Sul Jun 2016 #96

Excellent post, auntpurl. greatauntoftriplets Jun 2016 #102

This is awful n/t DemonGoddess Jun 2016 #106

The side by side pics of actual Nazi propaganda film and Nigel Farage standing in front of that bus Rex Jun 2016 #113

It is quite honestly, horrifying.... truebrit71 Jun 2016 #117

Yes , Victor, in Leeds: So the Remain campaign were telling the truth. Person 2713 Jun 2016 #118

"So the Remain campaign were telling the truth" is going to be the tagline auntpurl Jun 2016 #155

This is some horrifying shit. Odin2005 Jun 2016 #119

Your tutelage on this is invaluable mcar Jun 2016 #121

People don't like trade deals especially if they feel like it costs them jobs. I guarantee you craigmatic Jun 2016 #124

And with a population about as well informed and with the same kind of racist feelings. eom fleabiscuit Jun 2016 #127

No because racism doesn't explain it all. I'd vote against NAFTA not because I hate Canada or Mexico craigmatic Jun 2016 #130

What you're saying is that those factories were not dependent on location. fleabiscuit Jun 2016 #133

This is in the south (GA and AL) and it happened in 1990's. NAFTA still hurried the process along. craigmatic Jun 2016 #134

Well fellow global citizen, we have new challenges. Onward! eom fleabiscuit Jun 2016 #136

People don't like trade deals because they are economically illiterate racists YoungDemCA Jun 2016 #145

what??? are you insane??? this country is decimated and crippled by nafta larkrake Jun 2016 #169

People can not like free trade and still not be racist. Free trade is just a policy. Now once craigmatic Jun 2016 #181

Stop promoting neoliberalism/neoconservatism. runaway hero Jun 2016 #183

absolutely larkrake Jun 2016 #156

No, it's not about that Lithos Jun 2016 #135

You're right, it's that too. auntpurl Jun 2016 #157

THANK YOU for your informative posts, Aunt Purl Hekate Jun 2016 #137

The people who voted to leave had been left alone to wither due to austerity. applegrove Jun 2016 #148

poo, it is not the only reason. Other countries want out too. Control of borders is vital to the larkrake Jun 2016 #159

Other countries have the same media demonisation of immigrants as the UK auntpurl Jun 2016 #162

so do we,it's the norm,so we have to look at why so many members want to leave larkrake Jun 2016 #168

That this had to be said is depressing. joshcryer Jun 2016 #161

And LOADS of other things too. auntpurl Jun 2016 #163

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2016 #165

K&R lupinella Jun 2016 #185

Yes, let's call names, insult people, and paint with a broad brush. OrwellwasRight Jun 2016 #187

I don't blame them auntpurl Jun 2016 #190

And yet you still blame the "ignorant." OrwellwasRight Jun 2016 #193

Take another run at reading my post. auntpurl Jun 2016 #194

And then you undid it all with yout last line OrwellwasRight Jun 2016 #195

Either you are being deliberately obtuse or you still don't understand what I said. auntpurl Jun 2016 #196

Yes, yes, you'll let me have the last word OrwellwasRight Jun 2016 #198

Nah! Neo-liberals! 1%! Elites! Adrahil Jun 2016 #188

are you one of them? runaway hero Jun 2016 #244

A 1%er? I wish. Adrahil Jun 2016 #245

I like this runaway hero Jun 2016 #246

Britain and the West is fucked anyway...... JudasTheGrass Jun 2016 #189

Why do you think that? n/t Spazito Jun 2016 #191

Welcome to DU. What do you mean? uppityperson Jun 2016 #199

Leave voters = Trump voters Beacool Jun 2016 #192

When all of the spin, rhetoric, and hand wringing are done..... clarice Jun 2016 #202

And now that I think about your OP....... clarice Jun 2016 #205

ok. nt auntpurl Jun 2016 #208

No...not ok.... please explain your reasoning.... you can't just.... clarice Jun 2016 #212

ok. nt auntpurl Jun 2016 #214

You'll need to call out pretty much every UK DU member as well, then. Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #218

You might want to tell NPR how much you disapprove, too. MADem Jun 2016 #221

Rec'd lib87 Jun 2016 #215

We are SO on the same page! I posted something extremely similar on this in the AA forum Number23 Jun 2016 #223

+ 100000000000 TubbersUK Jun 2016 #228

The greater arrogance JustAnotherGen Jun 2016 #229

We got somebody hollering about the Third Way in a thread about Brexit! Number23 Jun 2016 #241

As one Brit guy so perfectly said, the main folks cheering this are Putin, Trump and ISIS Number23 Jun 2016 #224

but, but, it doesn't fit the glen greenwald and others narrative still_one Jun 2016 #226

So if people don't support open borders then they are xenophobes and racists? modem77 Jun 2016 #231

I just...can't anymore. auntpurl Jun 2016 #232

There's really no reason you should have to. Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #234

I think it might be time for a little DU break, until the US forgets about Brexit auntpurl Jun 2016 #235

I can completely understand that, Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #237