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DetlefK

(16,670 posts)
112. Let's see:
Mon Jun 27, 2016, 04:31 PM
Jun 2016

The source in your first link talks about the "willfull destruction of Yugoslavia" by the West, conveniently forgetting a genocidal civil-war that was only stopped by NATO bombing the shit out of the serbian army. The author clearly has an agenda and won't let facts get in the way of a good story. No thanks.

Your second link makes good points why the EU is neoliberal, but neglects to talk about the UK and what its stance on neoliberalism is. Do they like it? Do they oppose it? The EU is predominantly Christian. Does that mean that Brexit was a vote to leave Christianity?

Quote from your third link: "So Brexit becomes a proxy vote for all the discontent with the UK austerity, benefit cuts, poor quality job creation and wage stagnation." => The EU was scapegoated for the neoliberal policies of the UK.
The article also mentions that predominantly working-class-people voted for Brexit... which would be a good statistical discriminator if it hadn't turned out that many, many british voters were utterly misinformed and ignorant about facts surrounding the vote.
The rest of the article keeps talking about the EU and neglects to talk about the UK and what its stance on neoliberalism is.
(Am I mistaken, or is the author indirectly pleading that the EU become a socialist super-state who regulates trade between countries on an individual basis so that the spoils of economic profit get spread evenly?)

From the fourth article: "Over the last two years we have seen the EU for what it really is – a prison house for workers that imposes austerity and fosters racism and xenophobia."
Indeed. The EU is fostering racism and xenophobia with free travel between countries that tried to literally kill each other 75 years ago. With exchange-programs and cultural programs that bring people together. With providing a forum where all countries can discuss issues on a regular basis. Yeah... that's how one furthers racism and xenophobia. The Neonazis are doing it wrong: If they really want to attract voters, they should organize cultural exchange-programs.
Next, the article brings up Greece: A country that has been living beyond its means and cooking its books for decades, dutifully supported by greek voters throughout the times. But now as the chickens come home to roost, it's poor, widdle, innocent Greece. Where was the greek outcry to get rid of the embezzlement and corruption in everyday-life? Where was the greek resistance? Instead they pocketed the cash and kept their mouths shut because they got their share. And now they complain that the greek economy is in shambles? Because of their fuck-stupid decision to vote for corrupt capitalists over and over and over again!!!
Up next we have a misrepresentation of the refugee-situation in the EU.
And after that, the article mentions that the Brexit was a proxy-vote against the establishment and the economic policies of Britain's own politicians, yet still manages to place the blame for Britain's political decisions on the EU.

From the fifth article: "Brexit is a crippling blow to the neoliberal order of unfettered trade and capital flows, and citizens being reduced to being consumers who have to fend for themselves in markets, and worse, increasingly isolated worker who are at the mercy of capitalists..."
Yes, Brexit is a blow to trade and capital flows (and the UK will suffer economically from that isolationist stance). But was this isolation intended as a blow against trade or as a blow against far-away rulers? Don't forget: The UK has always liked to bash the EU, even at the best of times, and (to repeat myself) many people who voted for Brexit were simply misinformed.
How many Brexit-voters have actually said that they are voting Brexit because of the economy???

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Add to that: Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #1
+ 10000000 TubbersUK Jun 2016 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #2
Amen n/t TubbersUK Jun 2016 #5
The vote was a whole lot less about "bigoted nostalgia" than about pensions, or the loss of them. leveymg Jun 2016 #8
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #9
They care a whole lot less about them than those who are facing poverty in old age. leveymg Jun 2016 #13
Thank you....n/t whathehell Jun 2016 #27
Your comments are always much appreciated. appalachiablue Jun 2016 #31
Pensions? I didn't hear pensions mentioned once in the campaign muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #19
Nice try - Scotland? Northern Ireland? any answer yet? pkdu Jun 2016 #30
I already answered that. Like Ireland, Scotland and N Ire gain from EU and global investment leveymg Jun 2016 #86
Thats a bullshit answer , Scotland and N.I. have been impacted just as much if not more so pkdu Jun 2016 #90
Take a look at these maps of UK income distribution and the Brexit vote leveymg Jun 2016 #92
Take a look at the color of NI in your own graphic! FAIL (again) pkdu Jun 2016 #93
The general pattern seems to line up otherwise. Agree? leveymg Jun 2016 #95
Nope...you are just plain wrong...look at all the expression of voters exiting below...especially pkdu Jun 2016 #116
See #111. The close split on capitalism most closely reflects the outcome of the referendum. leveymg Jun 2016 #117
No, the close split on capitalism means that capitalism has nothing to do with the referendum muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #124
Last name order is purely random. But, opinion on capitalism is relevant to one's Brexit vote leveymg Jun 2016 #125
Downloaded the detailed data. Some interesting findings: Retired and unemployed were mostly Leavers leveymg Jun 2016 #127
Detailed data at Table 33 says you're wrong, Muriel. Poorer areas-Leave, poorer respondents-Leave. leveymg Jun 2016 #128
Those figures you've quoted aren't about Remain or Leave, though muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #129
That merely obscures the data: Leave correlates strongly with class, employment, age, leveymg Jun 2016 #135
It correlates much more strongly with views against immigration and multiculturalism muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #136
The data does not show that older Britains are "quite happy with capitalism" Only 39% say leveymg Jun 2016 #137
No, 39% is the overall capitalism 'good' figure; for 65+, it's 47% muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #138
So, you didn't find anything that provides a ranking of these issues by importance? leveymg Jun 2016 #140
No, nothing ranking those issues muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #141
Seems to be a strange omission. I'll look later. Thanks. leveymg Jun 2016 #142
An ORB poll showed 52/37 considered the UK economy a bigger issue than immigration leveymg Jun 2016 #143
That's the figures for everyone; Leave were 31% economy more important, 57% disagreeing muriel_volestrangler Jun 2016 #144
The winners will create a "neoliberal fantasy island freed from EU regulations". Pensions are going pampango Jun 2016 #33
+1, /nt Marr Jun 2016 #57
Pensions?! That's an invented angle. And it's not Ageism to show the very clear divide in the vote Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2016 #59
"Bigoted nostalgia", didn't see that, a new one and a variant of, appalachiablue Jun 2016 #91
There seem to be a lot of apologists for neoliberalism on DU, of late. leveymg Jun 2016 #94
Long Live Neoliberalism! The lengths gone to here to demolish appalachiablue Jun 2016 #98
Just because LWolf Jun 2016 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #10
And what evidence lead you to these conclusions??? DetlefK Jun 2016 #23
I didn't say LWolf Jun 2016 #28
+5 appalachiablue Jun 2016 #32
But where is the connection? DetlefK Jun 2016 #42
There is an abundance of connections LWolf Jun 2016 #66
Let's see: DetlefK Jun 2016 #112
I think the misunderstanding is over the basic ambiguity of neoliberalism seabeckind Jun 2016 #114
Yes. LWolf Jun 2016 #120
+1 nt laundry_queen Jun 2016 #134
"Neoliberalism is at the core of Brexit". No, pure bred conservativism is at the core of Brexit. pampango Jun 2016 #37
No. LWolf Jun 2016 #62
Baloney. FDR was neither neoliberal nor conservative. Sweden is not neoliberal nor conservative now. pampango Jun 2016 #73
wtf LWolf Jun 2016 #79
FDR viewed conservatives as the enemy. He welcomed their hatred. pampango Jun 2016 #88
Neoliberalism LWolf Jun 2016 #96
FDR talked a lot about conservatism because it was an issue of his era. It still is, IMHO. pampango Jun 2016 #99
Neoliberalism is a socioeconomic CONSERVATIVE LIBERTARIANISM. Hortensis Jun 2016 #68
Thanks for the definition. That does not prove anything with respect to Brexit. Polling date shows pampango Jun 2016 #76
Most people have no idea what neoliberalism is, Hortensis Jun 2016 #100
Except TubbersUK Jun 2016 #63
Trump is led on the right. LWolf Jun 2016 #69
But Conservative voters are predominantly MIDDLE class TubbersUK Jun 2016 #89
I would start by LWolf Jun 2016 #97
Sure, there are some, but they're Conservative voters nonetheless TubbersUK Jun 2016 #115
Plenty of conservatives are anti-establishment. LWolf Jun 2016 #121
"The anti-government, anti-intellectual bent is conservative. " TubbersUK Jun 2016 #122
The City of London is neoliberal with a gusto. The rest of England a lot less so, obviously. leveymg Jun 2016 #4
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #7
Scotland's economy is more tied to Europe than the English Midlands and South. And Separatism. leveymg Jun 2016 #11
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #12
Scotland is simple to expain. They were sitting in the catbird's seat. AntiBank Jun 2016 #14
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Jun 2016 #16
Scotland, Wales, and NI subsidise their students AntiBank Jun 2016 #21
As progressive countries will do. They voted to Remain. Smart move on their part. pampango Jun 2016 #40
the link works and it has no political bias AntiBank Jun 2016 #45
I agree that Scotland and Sanders are both progressive on lowering college fees. Both were Remain pampango Jun 2016 #52
here is newer article about the fees AntiBank Jun 2016 #65
Scot here. Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #18
thanks for the detailed reply, you echo many of my Scottish mates AntiBank Jun 2016 #22
I'm not really anything 100%! Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #35
Spot on TubbersUK Jun 2016 #26
Thanks for the input, interesting. Like the way you described civic nationalism. appalachiablue Jun 2016 #41
That outlook on nationalism/separatism is our ideal. Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #46
Understood, there's always some rotters around appalachiablue Jun 2016 #85
Thank you for the inside skinny. And, thanks for the Scotch, too! leveymg Jun 2016 #107
You have provided the answer. Looks like no one is listening. yourpaljoey Jun 2016 #39
An odd little cheering section for the City of London has popped up here. leveymg Jun 2016 #108
Well, you tried yourpaljoey Jun 2016 #110
The City of London is different to Greater London! Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #130
I used to work on the Floor of the NYSE. The City of London is Wall St East leveymg Jun 2016 #131
It wasn't clear from any of your posts what you know about the place, Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #132
London voted heavily to stay n/t n2doc Jun 2016 #15
London has plenty serious pockets of deprivation. Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #49
So open borders neoliberalism is better then closed borders neoliberalism runaway hero Jun 2016 #17
I am arguing that Brexit had nothing to do with being for or against neoliberalism. DetlefK Jun 2016 #24
Progressive like with strong labor and environmental standards, world class income equality, pampango Jun 2016 #44
They why did those same people just leave runaway hero Jun 2016 #101
Why did some Labour voters vote to Leave? For the same reasons that many, many Conservative pampango Jun 2016 #103
But the many didn't show up runaway hero Jun 2016 #104
"Young people didn't show when it mattered yet again." And old people did and got their way. pampango Jun 2016 #105
No problem runaway hero Jun 2016 #106
It's almost as absurd as saying they are racists because they didn't want open borders. modem77 Jun 2016 #20
Neoliberals are loving Brexit since it let's them force the UK... joshcryer Jun 2016 #25
17.4 million ignorant racists voted leave Teamster Jeff Jun 2016 #29
Maybe you aren't a person of color / Polish accent / headscarf who has spent time in Britain lately. Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2016 #70
If you're South Asian it's pretty bad Recursion Jun 2016 #119
I believe you. Sorry to hear that. Nm Teamster Jeff Jun 2016 #126
This chart completely demolishes that meme about Brexit being a rejection of neoliberalism YoungDemCA Jun 2016 #34
If you really, really want it to be about rejecting neoliberalism, polling data does not matter. pampango Jun 2016 #50
Interesting how the divide on capitalism most closely reflects the actual vote. leveymg Jun 2016 #111
Let us note that with a few exceptions the Brexit leaders were RIGHT wing LeftishBrit Jun 2016 #36
Boris is Bananas, even manic, albeit entertaining at times. Can't believe he'd be PM. appalachiablue Jun 2016 #43
Tony Blair, Bush's poodle, was on the other side J_J_ Jun 2016 #74
Yes, and a start would be not listening to the right-wing media LeftishBrit Jun 2016 #82
and Donald Trump and Sarah Palin were all for the exit still_one Jun 2016 #83
My thread regarding such did not claim that the vote was logical. appal_jack Jun 2016 #38
Did you mean the word embarrassing? Rex Jun 2016 #47
It's crossed the line from "embarrassing" to "shameful", honestly Spider Jerusalem Jun 2016 #48
Post removed Post removed Jun 2016 #55
Oh No!!! A typo derailed my whole argument!!! Foiled again!!! DetlefK Jun 2016 #54
Good luck preaching to the antineoliberalchorus who are mostly just parrots. Stinky The Clown Jun 2016 #51
Is this NeoliberalismUnderground.com now? fbc Jun 2016 #53
I cannot be since it already is leftistconspiracytheories.com DetlefK Jun 2016 #58
It has to be. LWolf Jun 2016 #72
Profit = neoliberal?? Gosh. (It's not simplistic like that.) . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2016 #56
profits while keeping down workers = neoliberalism. Exilednight Jun 2016 #77
None of your rant against neoliberalism (as you define it) has anything to do with UK, EU or Brexit. Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2016 #87
In other words "you asked a question that I can't answer so I'm going to Exilednight Jun 2016 #102
It's OK. You could have tied your def'n to UK, used UK/EU examples, but we don't need to go further. Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2016 #109
And we have your word for that? fasttense Jun 2016 #60
Bob Crow would also be bitterly opposed Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #71
Your correct, I don't need his words the rest of the article proves the point. fasttense Jun 2016 #75
LIVING HERE! That's where my proof is. Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #78
The writer of the article also lives there. fasttense Jun 2016 #81
Pretty much 99% of the UK DUers Denzil_DC Jun 2016 #84
David Harvey uses the term neoliberalism to describe Lewis Powell's 1971 confidential memorandum to jtuck004 Jun 2016 #61
It is not quite as simple as that Dustbowl Observer Jun 2016 #64
Anyone claiming that BREXIT was driven by one thing is disingenuous Saviolo Jun 2016 #67
I don't believe layering over one neoliberal prone government with another is not fasttense Jun 2016 #80
Gutter-Populism ultimately degenerates into paranoid conspiracy theories about the "Powers That Be". Odin2005 Jun 2016 #113
If it was a rejection of neoliberalism, conservative voters are sure smarter than liberal voters pampango Jun 2016 #118
Yes TubbersUK Jun 2016 #123
Real estate fun and games might've played a role. proverbialwisdom Jun 2016 #133
+1000 Blue_Tires Jun 2016 #139
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