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(38,385 posts)
100. And you describe everything that is wrong with this world.
Wed Jun 29, 2016, 01:44 PM
Jun 2016

Economic "productivity" as we now define it is a direct measure of the damage we are doing to the earth's natural environment and our own human spirit.

Most of us are not lucky enough to have jobs that make the world a better place, or even enough to bother getting a passport for international travel. Most of us do not have the opportunity to wander, not even in our own imaginations. Our choices as individuals are severely limited by oppressive and ultimately unsustainable "free" market economies.

I'm a very fortunate child of this world. I was born in the U.S.A.. My parents are artists, neither especially successful in terms of selling their own art, but with skills they could apply to their day jobs. My dad's trade had a strong union. We could travel. My dad could even quit work for months, once more than a year, at and return right where he left off.

As a kid we lived in Europe for a year. We were living in Franco's Spain, but we had to leave in the middle of the night after my mom told a pompous and petty government official what she really thought of him. My dad couldn't sleep that evening, so just past midnight we stuffed our car with everything we could and left for France.

We were living as indigent Americans in a French public park because my dad's money was in Spain. This was before VISA cards and ATMs. The local French community was so disturbed by our presence they bought us gasoline for our car and ferry tickets to England. Barclay's Bank allowed my parents to open a checking account with a negative balance and Barclay's eventually recovered my dad's money from Spain.

It was a different world then. How did this story happen? My dad got some really, really, inexpensive tickets on a ship that was leaving New York for Europe to be refitted. We took the train from Los Angeles to New York, sleeping in our seats, eating mostly food we brought for the trip.

My own young adulthood was even more intense.

In this modern automated world our food, shelter, basic medicine, birth control, and electronic communications are cheap. Anything we choose to do beyond these things ought to be a matter of personal choice.

The neighbors I see picking strawberries in the fields near my home are subsidizing the very wealthy.

Fuck that shit.

As a Californian, I think that it's time to pull the plug on this boondogle n/t taught_me_patience Jun 2016 #1
We do need to have transportation other than air between the major cities. haele Jun 2016 #2
What about a tunnel? AngryAmish Jun 2016 #13
Earthquakes. nt tblue37 Jun 2016 #41
No we don't Sen. Walter Sobchak Jun 2016 #14
No, we need better transit on routes people use most frequently. LeftyMom Jun 2016 #35
I'd be so happy to have a train XemaSab Jun 2016 #70
We don't even have a transit link from downtown Sac to the airport! LeftyMom Jun 2016 #110
The people who organized the initiative shouldn't have lied to the voters ripcord Jun 2016 #65
I know. Other countries get to have high speed travel throughout, but we're too pathetic to have it. highprincipleswork Jun 2016 #44
We have high-speed travel anoNY42 Jun 2016 #51
Air travel is time consuming, expensive and impractical adigal Jun 2016 #56
But it is less time-consuming anoNY42 Jun 2016 #62
Like I say, we're idiots who don't deserve the kind of pleasures other developed countries have. highprincipleswork Jun 2016 #68
It depends on the distances involved. Let's look at a trip from LA to NYC. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #73
A day and a half??? LA to San Francisco is 381 miles. adigal Jun 2016 #106
I believe you misread my post. I was speaking of a trip from LA to New York City. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #111
Yeah, but if you can't drive 55... 6chars Jun 2016 #119
Yeah, it does depend on the distances involved. HughBeaumont Jun 2016 #112
You could always take the train from Cleveland to DC. It only takes 11 hours. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #116
Because other countries have government oversight and accountability. Initech Jun 2016 #80
I voted against it. Upgrade/expand local public transit instead. Auggie Jun 2016 #53
Yeah I agree, kill it. Initech Jun 2016 #77
Just as with the interstate highway system, the Feds will have to do this for the public good brush Jun 2016 #81
Kill it, already. Throd Jun 2016 #3
As a Californian, I think we should build it faster Agnosticsherbet Jun 2016 #4
You sure about that? Throd Jun 2016 #6
High speed rail in other countries is all I said about it. Agnosticsherbet Jun 2016 #8
It's a simple math equation that doesn't pencil out. Throd Jun 2016 #11
What is odd about ending a low efficiency high energy, pollution heavy, space using Agnosticsherbet Jun 2016 #17
Private automobiles cause global warming... Herman4747 Jun 2016 #63
It isn't high speed rail ripcord Jun 2016 #12
Why does high speed rail work every where but the US? liberal N proud Jun 2016 #5
My guess is magic gratuitous Jun 2016 #7
"111 similar systems around the world and found only three that cover their operating cost." cherokeeprogressive Jun 2016 #9
How does the interstate equation work out? seabeckind Jun 2016 #60
It doesn't. It works in very dense places like Western Europe, Japan, and coastal China Recursion Jun 2016 #10
Because oil addicted interest in the US are trying to kill it. Firebrand Gary Jun 2016 #38
And that is the answer! liberal N proud Jun 2016 #45
I would love to have High Speed Rail... RME_SFC Jun 2016 #102
We need something that challenges domestic air travel. liberal N proud Jun 2016 #109
Depending on Cost/time ratio RME_SFC Jun 2016 #113
If you use Eur pope as an example, Time/Cost is equivalent to Air liberal N proud Jun 2016 #118
Is this the one that Florida.... Fla_Democrat Jun 2016 #15
Yes. Igel Jun 2016 #23
It actually makes a lot more sense for Florida. LeftyMom Jun 2016 #36
Florida is flat, that is true anoNY42 Jun 2016 #52
I would think between Orlando and Miami with some selective stops sure would. seabeckind Jun 2016 #61
I just don't see anoNY42 Jun 2016 #64
Talking from a functional requirement standpoint. seabeckind Jun 2016 #66
Miami-Orlando proposed 25+ yrs ago, but dropped. Would have dog-legged to Tampa. Eleanors38 Jun 2016 #79
Orlando to Tampa HSR was one of the stupidest ideas ever. Nye Bevan Jun 2016 #74
If California wanted to build bullet trains between LA and SF and their respective suburbs Sen. Walter Sobchak Jun 2016 #16
What if they just built a tunnel between LA and San Francisco? AngryAmish Jun 2016 #21
The world's longest train tunnel is the Gotthard tunnel in Switzerland. It's 35 miles long. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #22
Geological issues. Such as that teeny tiny San Andres fault thing, and the many oil fields underahedgerow Jun 2016 #39
They have tunnels in Iran and they have both earthquakes and oil fields. AngryAmish Jun 2016 #43
Well, it's not really a 'could just' proposition. Mapping, land acquisition, geological flaws, underahedgerow Jun 2016 #54
Maglev goes 400mph Major Nikon Jun 2016 #24
I take it you haven't seen the route Sen. Walter Sobchak Jun 2016 #25
What it ultimately will or might have done isn't the same as what it could do Major Nikon Jun 2016 #31
How about the Hyperloop? It's looking very, very cool. underahedgerow Jun 2016 #40
Intelligent countries all over the world have high speed rail... TheProgressive Jun 2016 #18
And so do we, in the corridor where it makes sense to have it Recursion Jun 2016 #27
Chicago To St. Louis To New Orleans Too ProfessorGAC Jun 2016 #57
That's an interesting idea, but I think it's too sparse to be self-sustaining Recursion Jun 2016 #58
Business Travel Between Houston and Chicago is Quite High ProfessorGAC Jun 2016 #82
The rail that runs from Boston to DC isn't exactly "high speed" NewJeffCT Jun 2016 #121
We need to think about optimizing our freeways for driverless cars MindPilot Jun 2016 #19
We can call them "Trains"! seabeckind Jun 2016 #59
As usual, we dither while Rome burns. We should have built it years ago. People who are fighting vanlassie Jun 2016 #20
maybe we can't do big things anymore. Good thing the Hoover Dam is already built. TeamPooka Jun 2016 #26
Could you imagine having to write the environmental impact assessment on the Hoover Dam? Recursion Jun 2016 #29
The money could be better spent bhikkhu Jun 2016 #28
We are spending over $1 Trillion on the F-35 Lightning II fighter/bomber KeepItReal Jun 2016 #32
Up to Gov Brown and the legislature. 1939 Jun 2016 #49
We desperately need a high speed train between LA and SF. SunSeeker Jun 2016 #30
It is horrid and long drive but this project isnt working out. Too many moving parts Liberal_in_LA Jun 2016 #33
Seems to be working out to me. It survived it's biggest challenge in the courtroom. SunSeeker Jun 2016 #34
The train's still going to take hours and go through smelly valley towns. LeftyMom Jun 2016 #37
The towns aren't smelly, it's the CAFOs stacked up along the 5 FWY. SunSeeker Jun 2016 #42
I just checked the airfare on Southwest from LA to SF. $69 each way. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #46
Well that totally destroyed his entire argument seabeckind Jun 2016 #50
Just providing correct information. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #71
Ahh, you get a coupon. seabeckind Jun 2016 #84
On the whole, it certainly does make up for the bad stuff, yes. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #88
How about more than 4? seabeckind Jun 2016 #97
Here's the list: Just reading posts Jun 2016 #99
You're a real fan of absurd arguments, aren't you? seabeckind Jun 2016 #108
You brought up venues that weren't being served by a multitude of airports. Fargo certainly Just reading posts Jun 2016 #115
Right now on Southwest.com: 1-way LAX to SFO depart 6/30/16 = $161 SunSeeker Jun 2016 #90
Last-minute airfares always cost more. Purchase at least a few weeks in advance and the price drops Just reading posts Jun 2016 #91
That would not work for business travelers or anyone who wants flexibility.. SunSeeker Jun 2016 #94
It's always worked for me, but I almost always fly for pleasure, not business. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #96
The towns smell because the CAFOs and factories and such are the town's employers. LeftyMom Jun 2016 #114
Everyone know highways are free seabeckind Jun 2016 #47
Brockway, North Haverbrook and Ogdenville all have one Orrex Jun 2016 #48
... Javaman Jun 2016 #69
This very thread is why I love DU trumad Jun 2016 #55
There are a lot of jobs being created in the Fresno area, SalviaBlue Jun 2016 #67
The only thing I hate more than driving is flying. hunter Jun 2016 #72
What's your alternative? Just a for instance: I enjoy spending a week or two in Thailand each year. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #75
You and I live in entirely different worlds. hunter Jun 2016 #83
I can't picture North by Northwest on an airplane. seabeckind Jun 2016 #85
Not even a cropduster? mahatmakanejeeves Jun 2016 #117
The Empire Builder seabeckind Jun 2016 #120
Let's look at my trip to Thailand in your world: Just reading posts Jun 2016 #87
And you describe everything that is wrong with this world. hunter Jun 2016 #100
In this world I've mangaged to visit almost two dozen different countries in the last 30 years. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #105
Moving the goalposts a tad there. seabeckind Jun 2016 #95
The post I was replying to argued for the elimination of fossil fuels, which would certainly impact Just reading posts Jun 2016 #98
The sailing ships was your absurd argument. seabeckind Jun 2016 #103
He said no fossil fuels, not me. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #107
We can spend trillions... deathrind Jun 2016 #76
That, and it inspired Season 2 of True Detective nt geek tragedy Jun 2016 #78
Read the article a little more closely... Xolodno Jun 2016 #86
I am sure I will never get to ride one of these in my life time... yuiyoshida Jun 2016 #89
I rode a high speed train when I took the Channel Tunnel from Dover to Paris some years ago. Just reading posts Jun 2016 #92
how'd I know it'd be Vartabedian? he's said CAHSR is dead every other month MisterP Jun 2016 #93
We have low-speed rail in SoCal in the form of Amtrack and Metrolink. stopbush Jun 2016 #101
Similar things have been said for every rail system built upaloopa Jun 2016 #104
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