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ConservativeDemocrat

(2,720 posts)

120. Murder capitalism? Forget neo-liberalism, it's all the neo-communists running around

Thu Jun 30, 2016, 02:11 AM

Jun 2016

Making up new words to pretend that they don't mean the same old discredited ideas and scapegoats.

"Corporatism" "neoliberalism" "the 99%" (for the proletariat), blah, blah, blah.

They still only make up about 2% of the public, though damn they're prolific screed writers. Almost as bad as the hate-filled fascist Republican kooks.

TPP isn't a bad plan. It's also by no means perfect. I see both Obama's and Clinton's view on it, both for and against. If this were a normal Republican congress instead of a bunch of sociopathic crybabies, I'd suggest Hillary link TPP to a set of laws to help the middle class, and give that to the Republicans to decide if they wanted a win-win (for the rich they represent vs the middle-class Democrats) or not.

Unfortunately, I think the Republicans are so deep in their mad-dog frothing at the mouth insane hatred that they'd turn the thing down, no matter how much their business backers would tell them otherwise. So there's no deal there.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

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If you could vote on TPP for America like UK voted on Brexit, how would YOU vote? [View all] nikto Jun 2016 OP

I vote: No nikto Jun 2016 #1

I vote: This is stupid. The TPP is not a union cprise Jul 2016 #159

Fuck no. bemildred Jun 2016 #2

Is "Oh, Hell No!" an option ? GreatGazoo Jun 2016 #3

This poll tries to conflate BlueMTexpat Jun 2016 #4

So, is that a "yes"? nikto Jun 2016 #5

That is ... I am not BlueMTexpat Jun 2016 #6

That's a "yes" nikto Jun 2016 #15

+1,000,000 ... Trajan Jun 2016 #32

Only to one with an BlueMTexpat Jun 2016 #33

Pure projection nikto Jun 2016 #41

It was a buttwipe-ish type poll. Thanks for not falling for it. n/t Aerows Jun 2016 #109

You are very welcome! eom BlueMTexpat Jun 2016 #110

You are the best, Expat Aerows Jun 2016 #111

Hardly "the best," lol! BlueMTexpat Jun 2016 #112

Rock on, dear! Aerows Jun 2016 #113

Oof... Nuanced answers to simplified questions are not always.. TreasonousBastard Jun 2016 #7

Thank you very much! BlueMTexpat Jun 2016 #8

And, the first trade agreement (that I am aware of) that ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #80

That is the most absurd argument I've heard. seabeckind Jul 2016 #137

Forgive them. They know not what they argue for nikto Jul 2016 #151

Speaking of Indonesia, FDR weighed in on it (well on the island of Java actually): pampango Jul 2016 #141

What about TPP's Loss of Sovereignty issue? nikto Jun 2016 #42

Well said. Hoyt Jun 2016 #12

Yes. TPP (like the EU is far from perfect) but it is better than sticking with NAFTA and the WTO, pampango Jun 2016 #9

Again, as I have suggested to another poster ... nikto Jun 2016 #44

I value human rights, labor rights and the environment over the sovereignty of the nation-state pampango Jun 2016 #66

"TPP is worse than the WTO and NAFTA with respect to human rights, labor rights and the environment" Chan790 Jun 2016 #68

"It's rare that the extreme right is right about anything...but they're dead-on FTA's." pampango Jun 2016 #78

You can count me as a proponent of withdrawal from NAFTA and destruction of the WTO, TYVM. n/t Chan790 Jun 2016 #90

Back to FDR or all the way to Herbert Hooover? n/t pampango Jun 2016 #94

Income inequality is at its highest level in American history Doremus Jul 2016 #162

"Obama warned that pulling out of trade deals "is the wrong medicine for dealing with inequality." pampango Jul 2016 #163

They're not particularly comparable, but I'd give a marginal "yes" for TPP Recursion Jun 2016 #10

Please investigate: Loss Of Sovereignty aspect of TPP nikto Jun 2016 #45

I do, and your terminology suggests you don't, but just read hysterical articles on the Internet Recursion Jun 2016 #50

IT's YOU!! Finally, I have found someone who understands the "loss of soverignty" aspect of TPP nikto Jun 2016 #55

As concise as it gets: Recursion Jun 2016 #56

OK...but did you know the Canadian oil company that was going to PatrickforO Jun 2016 #61

I do know that. Why shouldn't they sue? Recursion Jun 2016 #63

Whaaat? seabeckind Jul 2016 #139

I have never ever seen an argument that the existing pipeline is safer Recursion Jul 2016 #146

Nice try at shifting the goal post. seabeckind Jul 2016 #148

That's not "shifting the goal". That is the ONLY question that matters Recursion Jul 2016 #149

Extremely unconvincing, relies on emotion to Make the case nikto Jun 2016 #62

Whatever Recursion Jun 2016 #64

Except you never made any actual argument--No substance whatsoever. nikto Jun 2016 #65

So...you agree that they don't work then. Chan790 Jun 2016 #71

No, they are doing a pretty good job. I prefer NAFTA to China's PNTR Recursion Jun 2016 #106

You know what else works? Chan790 Jun 2016 #69

Tariffs are nationalistic bullshit that will only prop up businesses that can't compete YoungDemCA Jun 2016 #75

I'm equally perplexed by supposed progressives... Chan790 Jun 2016 #77

Protectionist policies are a godsend to business interests and terrible for consumers YoungDemCA Jun 2016 #81

Fine...can we at-least concede that they're opposite arms of the pendulum swing... Chan790 Jun 2016 #91

I don't dispute that some workers in the US are displaced by free trade YoungDemCA Jun 2016 #92

+1 ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2016 #84

Hell No! Jack Bone Jun 2016 #11

HELL NO to the giant corporations and banksters Elwood P Dowd Jun 2016 #13

Eff NO! smirkymonkey Jun 2016 #14

Important Info for those who are (some perhaps willfully?) blind on Globalization nikto Jun 2016 #16

Sounded reasonable Egnever Jun 2016 #37

You need more info nikto Jun 2016 #47

it is basically what happened under the wto - remember how the US passed that hollysmom Jun 2016 #53

Excellent points, all nikto Jun 2016 #54

Both articles were written before the actual text was available Egnever Jul 2016 #135

YES! MohRokTah Jun 2016 #17

Did Darwin tell you that? Human101948 Jun 2016 #28

Exactly! nikto Jun 2016 #48

That sounds more like an argument for why we need to murder capitalism. Chan790 Jun 2016 #72

Murder capitalism? Forget neo-liberalism, it's all the neo-communists running around ConservativeDemocrat Jun 2016 #120

Realizing that you're not a political scientist... Chan790 Jun 2016 #123

You're clearly not a political scientist either... ConservativeDemocrat Jun 2016 #124

Thank you. n/t seabeckind Jul 2016 #138

And "capitalistic economies" are a good thing truebluegreen Jul 2016 #157

No. And I also wish we could have a vote on guns. Vinca Jun 2016 #18

Against sakabatou Jun 2016 #19

I would hope that teh TPP would actually be released for study before we voted on it. Starry Messenger Jun 2016 #20

this op, whether intentionally or not, conflates the TPP with the EU cali Jun 2016 #21

Why is the EU so much better than TPP? nikto Jun 2016 #23

what? I didn't say it was. cali Jun 2016 #26

I guess I just need someone to tell me ... nikto Jun 2016 #49

Maybe you should research PaulaFarrell Jun 2016 #103

Not bad, but ... nikto Jun 2016 #117

I don't support TTP or TTIP PaulaFarrell Jun 2016 #122

I would vote "NO" to TPP, and stay in the union louis c Jun 2016 #22

Truly, TPP and Labor Unions are mortal enemies nikto Jun 2016 #24

NO. n/t Yo_Mama Jun 2016 #25

Seriously people are voting yes on TPP??? Silver_Witch Jun 2016 #27

This surprises you? Chan790 Jun 2016 #73

Actually yes it shocks me on DU... Silver_Witch Jun 2016 #100

I would vote NO! whathehell Jun 2016 #29

ask me an easier one Motley13 Jun 2016 #30

No. roamer65 Jun 2016 #31

Not only no, hell fucking no! onecaliberal Jun 2016 #34

Yes to Brexit. 840high Jun 2016 #35

No to TTP 840high Jun 2016 #36

Yes Egnever Jun 2016 #38

+1 Well said YoungDemCA Jun 2016 #88

Hell NO. nt LWolf Jun 2016 #39

Absolutely NO! Duval Jun 2016 #40

NO, NO, NO!!! avaistheone1 Jun 2016 #43

As a Californian, I am sick of referendums on the ballot. We elect people to do a job--do it! Hekate Jun 2016 #46

Not only no but FUCK NO. Tap tap no tap backs. cherokeeprogressive Jun 2016 #51

No...I'm not stupid, greedy or crazy! peace13 Jun 2016 #52

NO! eom mikehiggins Jun 2016 #57

NO NO NO!!!!!! Arizona Roadrunner Jun 2016 #58

I would vote NO to TPP! burrowowl Jun 2016 #59

NO. TPP is a BAD policy, a BAD agreement that will undermine democracy and PatrickforO Jun 2016 #60

No. Chan790 Jun 2016 #67

I'd much rather prefer it if China writes the rules of international trade than the US YoungDemCA Jun 2016 #70

There is probably no more ridiculous argument for FTAs than this one. Chan790 Jun 2016 #76

Don't you realize that is an empty attempt at an argument? nikto Jun 2016 #97

No. nt tblue37 Jun 2016 #74

Unequivocally, no. With no chance of ever regretting that 'no'. w4rma Jun 2016 #79

It's also supported by most reputable economists YoungDemCA Jun 2016 #83

TPP 'worst trade deal ever,' says Nobel-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz w4rma Jun 2016 #86

And *no*, "most reputable economists" do *not* support the TPP. They are split. w4rma Jun 2016 #87

No, no way. n/t woodsprite Jun 2016 #82

Nope OriginalGeek Jun 2016 #85

OUT. Free trade without fair trade is killing us. Warpy Jun 2016 #89

I agree. Also----that's the 1st good thing I've heard about the EU nikto Jun 2016 #98

The same way I vote on a lot of things. hobbit709 Jun 2016 #93

pretty damn close to reality, there. the only good corporation is a........one. Gabi Hayes Jun 2016 #95

"If the corporations are for it, I'm against it." nikto Jun 2016 #116

No. PowerToThePeople Jun 2016 #96

It seems like finding good things to say about TPP is as easy as ... nikto Jun 2016 #99

Hillary will re-negotiate TPP and take nest Jun 2016 #101

JMO nikto Jun 2016 #102

No. nt silvershadow Jun 2016 #104

No. n/t ozone_man Jun 2016 #105

Trade Trump to North Korea Night Watchman Jun 2016 #107

Fuck no to tpp. n/t Aerows Jun 2016 #108

Whatever is the next up from fuck no. TheKentuckian Jun 2016 #114

YES !!!! OnDoutside Jun 2016 #115

Here's something happening RIGHT NOW, that will only worsen under TPP ... nikto Jun 2016 #118

It's definitely a "NO" for me KeizoOshima2 Jun 2016 #119

From a UK-er: TPP and Brexit are not comparable! LeftishBrit Jun 2016 #121

Thanks for the response nikto Jul 2016 #125

I mean, I see the interest in the question. Just curious- why did you not just make it a poll? nt silvershadow Jul 2016 #126

I guess I'm not "special" enough to do a poll nikto Jul 2016 #127

Thanks. I just found out you have to be a paying member. Sorry. silvershadow Jul 2016 #131

Have to be a paying member. Rex Jul 2016 #128

Ah, I actually didn't realize that. nt silvershadow Jul 2016 #130

No. Rex Jul 2016 #129

Absolutely NO nt AntiBank Jul 2016 #132

Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2016 #133

Free Scotland! Night Watchman Jul 2016 #134

This changed my mind on Brexit--Here's the best explanation of Brexit I've heard yet (Audio) nikto Jul 2016 #136

No. seabeckind Jul 2016 #140

Voting for Brexit and a hypothetical about the TPP is no different from implying... randome Jul 2016 #142

FDR: Perfectionism, no less than isolationism or imperialism ..., may obstruct the path to pampango Jul 2016 #144

Perfectionism is like Trump tearing up every agreement that doesn't make us masters of the world. randome Jul 2016 #145

It sounds like you don't know the first thing about TPP nikto Jul 2016 #150

New powers? Like the ISDS? There have been arbitration courts for over 50 years now. randome Jul 2016 #153

"Better than nothing", "better than we had before" etc etc etc etc nikto Jul 2016 #161

The Corporate Devil's Dictionary Definition of, "Perfectionism" (as used by Centrist Democrats) nikto Jul 2016 #152

Agreed. FDR warned against letting 'the perfect being the enemy of the good'. He would certainly pampango Jul 2016 #155

NO! B Calm Jul 2016 #143

NO louis c Jul 2016 #147

Fuck no. TDale313 Jul 2016 #154

vote no eom mikehiggins Jul 2016 #156

surprised? lonestarnot Jul 2016 #158

No My Good Babushka Jul 2016 #160

If you could vote for apples, would you vote also for oranges? Bluenorthwest Jul 2016 #164